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  #21  
Old 24.11.2011, 10:32
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Re: Reducing the Health care subsidy to individuals

If you pay Health Insurance here ( most likely you do as it's compulsory ) then on your wage you are entitled to a reduction of the costs. You pay taxes and you also pay for such things as a subsidy. Read here.

http://www.svazurich.ch/pdf/IPV2012.pdf


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It's interesting, I pay 18% tax (total at the source) and earn around chf1200 a month (so take home of around 1,000chf a month). I'm studying but since I'm not at a Swiss University I'm officially here as a worker.

I have often wondered if I pay too much tax but when I did some research a while back I got the impression that I was paying a normal amount (for a foreigner, maybe that's my problem ).

I would never consider 5400 a little, even at 100%. My swiss girlfriend after she finishes her studies can expect to earn less than that at 100%. I'm totally amazed by this. I realise fully that 5400 a month will never make you rich but even in Zurich that must be enough to live on fairly comfortably or are prices THAT different between Fribourg and Zurich.

Even with my minuscule wage I wouldn't expect others to pick up my health tab.

Edit: I'm not saying that 5,400 is above average or anything for a nurse. I have a friend who is in nursing school and the stories I hear make me realise that nurses earn every penny of their salaries.
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  #22  
Old 24.11.2011, 10:37
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Re: Reducing the Health care subsidy to individuals

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Firstly, as I said, I pay tax also. So I also contribute to the subsidy.
So you are subsiding yourself. Marvellous.
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And second-If they had en ethical and affordable health care system in Switzerland then a subsidy would not be necessary.
What would you recommend? A system like the UK's National Health with more administrators than nursing staff, which is bleeding the country dry. Or a system like the USA where millions cannot afford it. Perhaps you have the secret answer you can share with us all...
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Old 24.11.2011, 10:38
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Re: Reducing the Health care subsidy to individuals

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My bedside manner. Exactly which bedside manner are you talking about?

Is that some sort of disguised suggestion?
HTH
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  #24  
Old 24.11.2011, 10:45
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Re: Reducing the Health care subsidy to individuals

A system that is not dictated to by multi-national pharmacy companies.

And the heads of these companies sit in the highest seats in the swiss government.
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So you are subsiding yourself. Marvellous.

What would you recommend? A system like the UK's National Health with more administrators than nursing staff, which is bleeding the country dry. Or a system like the USA where millions cannot afford it. Perhaps you have the secret answer you can share with us all...
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  #25  
Old 24.11.2011, 10:47
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Re: Reducing the Health care subsidy to individuals

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Yes, well, I thought the forum veteran was trying to get me in bed.
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  #26  
Old 24.11.2011, 11:00
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Re: Reducing the Health care subsidy to individuals

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Yes, well, I thought the forum veteran was trying to get me in bed.
I somehow find it odd that someone working in health care has never heard of the expression 'bedside manner'.

But on the other hand it explains a lot. Like telling me to "learn a little about Switzerland". I've had Swiss nationality longer than you've lived here...
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Old 24.11.2011, 11:02
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Re: Reducing the Health care subsidy to individuals

If the govt spent less on subsidising health care for people on an annual salary of 81,000 CHF (5400 * 1.25 * 12) then it could afford to give more money to people who were genuinely poor.
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  #28  
Old 24.11.2011, 11:18
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Re: Reducing the Health care subsidy to individuals

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I somehow find it odd that someone working in health care has never heard of the expression 'bedside manner'.

But on the other hand it explains a lot. Like telling me to "learn a little about Switzerland". I've had Swiss nationality longer than you've lived here...
Which would mean longer than 17 years.

Did I say that I did not know what bedside manner is. This expression belongs to another century.

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  #29  
Old 24.11.2011, 11:21
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Re: Reducing the Health care subsidy to individuals

Ok, so the OP is from Australia. Is the system there better?

And I guess your salary depends on what sort of nursing you do. In the US (where I'm from), there is huge variation in the types of nursing possible from a physician extender to a nursing aid. I haven't quite figured out the system here - though 81K would be about average in the US for a non-administrative position, a registered nurse in a hospital on day shift. You might get more in top hospitals in NY or Boston - it really depends on the competitiveness of the area.

People still use Bedside Manner all the time. Yes, I suppose it's more of the 1900's than 2000, but still....
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Old 24.11.2011, 11:32
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Re: Reducing the Health care subsidy to individuals

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Which would mean longer than 17 years.

Did I say that I did not know what bedside manner is. This expression belongs to another century.

Your profile says "in Zurich for 13 years". I've had Swiss nationality for 16 years.

You certainly reacted as if you didn't understand 'bedside manner' - I suggest you swot up on this phrase from "another century", it will help you in your work.

I've about had it with this thread too...
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  #31  
Old 24.11.2011, 11:41
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Re: Reducing the Health care subsidy to individuals

5400*12+1 ( 13th Wage) = 70200CHF

Subtract all deductions ( AHV,Pensionkasse,rent, Health payments) and you are left with 2500CHF in month.



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If the govt spent less on subsidising health care for people on an annual salary of 81,000 CHF (5400 * 1.25 * 12) then it could afford to give more money to people who were genuinely poor.
5400*12+1 ( 13th Wage) = 70200
Subtract all deductions ( AHV,PensionKasse,rent, Health payments) and you are left with 2500CHF in month.
A person who earns 3000CHF a month could probably be said to be poor by Swiss standards!
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Old 24.11.2011, 11:44
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Re: Reducing the Health care subsidy to individuals

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5400*12+1 ( 13th Wage) = 70200CHF

Subtract all deductions ( AHV,Pensionkasse,rent, Health payments) and you are left with 2500CHF in month.




5400*12+1 ( 13th Wage) = 70200
Subtract all deductions ( AHV,PensionKasse,rent, Health payments) and you are left with 2500CHF in month.
You said you work 80% of the time. I need to revise my figures upwards now that you also get a bonus each year. No one cares about your "net" figure as you've included rent in the deduction.

5400 * 1.25 * 13 = 87,750 CHF pa.
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  #33  
Old 24.11.2011, 11:47
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Re: Reducing the Health care subsidy to individuals

Thanks. I have updated my profile-17 years.
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Your profile says "in Zurich for 13 years". I've had Swiss nationality for 16 years.

You certainly reacted as if you didn't understand 'bedside manner' - I suggest you swot up on this phrase from "another century", it will help you in your work.

I've about had it with this thread too...
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  #34  
Old 24.11.2011, 11:47
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Re: Reducing the Health care subsidy to individuals

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5400*12+1 ( 13th Wage) = 70200
Subtract all deductions ( AHV,PensionKasse,rent, Health payments) and you are left with 2500CHF in month.
A person who earns 3000CHF a month could probably be said to be poor by Swiss standards!
You say 1 month goes in tax so:

Net = 5400*12 = 64,800chf
11% deductions (give or take) = 57,600chf
4,800chf per month

So you spend (give or take) 2,300chf per month on rent and healthcare - which is about right if you ask me. Rent around 1,800 - 3 people healthcare at 170chf per month = 2,300 total.

If your household income is ONLY 5,400chf per month - then what do you expect. You do get the benefit of only working 80%.

Sympathy left the building a long time ago
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Old 24.11.2011, 11:54
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Re: Reducing the Health care subsidy to individuals

1 person health care is 300CHF!In a month.
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You say 1 month goes in tax so:

Net = 5400*12 = 64,800chf
11% deductions (give or take) = 57,600chf
4,800chf per month

So you spend (give or take) 2,300chf per month on rent and healthcare - which is about right if you ask me. Rent around 1,800 - 3 people healthcare at 170chf per month = 2,300 total.

If your household income is ONLY 5,400chf per month - then what do you expect. You do get the benefit of only working 80%.

Sympathy left the building a long time ago
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  #36  
Old 24.11.2011, 12:42
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Re: Reducing the Health care subsidy to individuals

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You say 1 month goes in tax so:

Net = 5400*13 = 70'200 chf
one month's salary deductions (give or take) = 64'800 chf
5'400 chf per month
Fixed that for you (13 salaries per year)

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Sympathy left the building a long time ago
Indeed.
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  #37  
Old 24.11.2011, 13:22
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Re: Reducing the Health care subsidy to individuals

First off, thanks for the link. I don't read german but I'll try to find a french version.

Secondly, I do feel for you if you are supporting a family on 5400 a month, however I still don't understand your complaint. You say that you don't expect anyone to subsidise your (and your families) health care however you are happy to take it when offered (as most people would). You are at the same time complaining that it's being reduced.

On one hand you are saying that you don't expect anyone to subsidise your health care but on the other hand you are saying that since they do, they should do it properly? Is that it?

I'm honestly just trying to understand your argument (unless of course it's just a rant which has no real basis other than that it makes life a little harder for you in which case I'll stop).

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A person who earns 3000CHF a month could probably be said to be poor by Swiss standards!
The poverty line in Switzerland (in 2005) was around 2200chf per month gross* for a single person. When you take equivalised income into account you would still be well above this line for a family of three. I'm not saying that you are living in the lap of luxury but you are not too badly off even on your single income. I also assume that this single wage is just temporary till your child reaches school going age and your partner can return to work.

*http://www.swissworld.org/en/economy...erity/poverty/
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  #38  
Old 24.11.2011, 13:37
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Re: Reducing the Health care subsidy to individuals

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1 person health care is 300CHF!In a month.
Low franchise?? I'm DOWN to 167chf next year.

Unless you use the health care system crank the franchise up - it isn't worth having a low one unless you know you are going to need medical attention.

I'd rather choose my excess and my level of cover - and not pay National Insurance
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Old 24.11.2011, 13:51
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Re: Reducing the Health care subsidy to individuals

Every tax payer is entitled to a subsidy provided he is not earning more than the maximum.

What I wanted to say is that the people who vote to reduce it are never the ones who need it. Do they really care about the ones that need it. They just think about their own pocket.

Actually I don't get any subsidy but my child does-around 900CHF per year.


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First off, thanks for the link. I don't read german but I'll try to find a french version.

Secondly, I do feel for you if you are supporting a family on 5400 a month, however I still don't understand your complaint. You say that you don't expect anyone to subsidise your (and your families) health care however you are happy to take it when offered (as most people would). You are at the same time complaining that it's being reduced.

On one hand you are saying that you don't expect anyone to subsidise your health care but on the other hand you are saying that since they do, they should do it properly? Is that it?

I'm honestly just trying to understand your argument (unless of course it's just a rant which has no real basis other than that it makes life a little harder for you in which case I'll stop).


The poverty line in Switzerland (in 2005) was around 2200chf per month gross* for a single person. When you take equivalised income into account you would still be well above this line for a family of three. I'm not saying that you are living in the lap of luxury but you are not too badly off even on your single income. I also assume that this single wage is just temporary till your child reaches school going age and your partner can return to work.

*http://www.swissworld.org/en/economy...erity/poverty/
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Old 24.11.2011, 13:52
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Re: Reducing the Health care subsidy to individuals

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I'd rather choose my excess and my level of cover - and not pay National Insurance
Very true. In fact many people have a complete lack of understanding how much tax goes towards paying for health care. In Australia, you pay for health care via:
- tax
- medicare levy
- medicare levy surcharge (high income earners only)
- and many people also have private health care (approx 50% of Australians)

People fail to add 3-4 together out of those to come up with the cost they pay for health care. And every year you get decreasing services not increasing i.e. same beds for an increasing population, deteriorating medical facilities, and because its considered 'free' - full emergency rooms in every major hospital etc etc. People also fail to understand that decreasing services as those listed above, are a cost to the payer (because you are paying more and getting less).
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