Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Complaints corner
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 30.01.2012, 17:41
silverburn's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Unterageri
Posts: 824
Groaned at 37 Times in 21 Posts
Thanked 833 Times in 343 Posts
silverburn has a reputation beyond reputesilverburn has a reputation beyond reputesilverburn has a reputation beyond reputesilverburn has a reputation beyond repute
Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

Quote:
View Post
That dull thudding sound you hear is me - or my 70s/80s feminist self* - hitting my head against the wall. I find it shocking - and profoundly sad - that such notions still have traction today.

What also makes my fur bristle is the phrasing of the question. A better question, which gets to the heart of the matter and should be asked of candidates of any gender, is:

"Do you expect that you will be able to perform this role successfully as your outside activities or responsibilities change?"

Asking about children is making assumptions about an employee that one has no right to make. It's not the company's business how I structure my life, only that I am able to do my job successfully. It's up to me to ensure that I have the structure in place to do so.



* At the start of my corporate ladder climbing days - when dinosaurs still roamed the earth - I was asked to sign a contract stipulating that I would not have children for X years as a condition of my first promotion to management. Being an ambitious sort, I signed of course.

And then made it my mission to change that policy. Figured I could do more good on the inside.
Firstly, critising the system while exploiting it for your own ends is slightly hypocritical. Though I do sympathsise with your circumstances.

Secondly, the reason it makes your bristle that these ideas have traction, is because nobody has come up with the perfection solution of allowing women the fair choice of child birth without career impact while ensuring that decision is "impact neutral" to the company that employers her.

I'm keen to hear how you did change the company from within, and how your solution was beneficial and fair to both mother and company.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 30.01.2012, 17:46
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Posts: 21
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 13 Times in 8 Posts
degravesst has made some interesting contributions
Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.


Quote:
View Post
I would hate to be a women and have to choose between family and a career. By the same token the career woman who has had 3 kids and risen to the top of her profession in 10 years probably had them all in full time nanny care since they were a few weeks old, in which case why bother having kids?
This is the sort of friendly attitude that I feel makes it very hard for women to suceed at the top level. Whilst you might personally believe that a parent should stay at home for the first few years, I don't see why your personal opinion should affect my job prospects. Basically you are saying that if I am a successful career woman, by definition I must be a bad parent. You're assuming that the husband isn't doing anything in that equation, which I find odd given you yourself stayed home.

If we all followed this line of thinking, we'd ban all career-hungry CEOs of major companies (male or female) from procreating on the basis that they must all be bad parents and never have time for their kids. Come to think of it, that might not be such a bad idea....
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank degravesst for this useful post:
  #63  
Old 30.01.2012, 17:50
silverburn's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Unterageri
Posts: 824
Groaned at 37 Times in 21 Posts
Thanked 833 Times in 343 Posts
silverburn has a reputation beyond reputesilverburn has a reputation beyond reputesilverburn has a reputation beyond reputesilverburn has a reputation beyond repute
Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

I'm kinda glad he's had the chance to be a SAHD; the vast majority of men don't get that choice, and their bread-winning ability is in some ways enforced by societys expectations.

Roll on equal maternal/paternal rights.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank silverburn for this useful post:
  #64  
Old 31.01.2012, 04:01
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Luxembourg
Posts: 10,399
Groaned at 249 Times in 210 Posts
Thanked 18,859 Times in 6,900 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

Quote:
View Post
Secondly, the reason it makes your bristle that these ideas have traction, is because nobody has come up with the perfection solution of allowing women the fair choice of child birth without career impact while ensuring that decision is "impact neutral" to the company that employers her.
Oh, sure... simple example: Why do employers only as WOMEN about kids? Normally it takes two to make them, no?

I worked for a large Swedish company before. I bet with you that this question does not happen there as the system is set up completely differently: Men and Women BOTH take some time off after pregnancy (in turns, so always one is at home). If the time is not fairly spread between the two, they get less!

This system is not new and works fairly well in Scandinavia - the part of Europe which has not the same problems with low birth rates as most others. The system seems to motivate women to be able to have kids AND a career.

I do not see this or anything similar to happen in Switzerland anytime soon. The result is that many women are forced to choose between the two which I find wrong (and means that the birthrates are low as well as that the more wealthy and educated part of the society will have overproportionally fewer kids... ).
But the ironic thing is that from my experience talking to Swiss is it not some patriatic country steered by grumpy old men who don't want the women to work - it is a basic democracy and if all women would want it, they could relatively easily change their country. But I made the experience that it is actually the women who are the most conservative. It is THEM who think that another woman who is not willing to give up her job for her baby cannot possibly be a good mother...

Last edited by Treverus; 31.01.2012 at 04:35.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Treverus for this useful post:
  #65  
Old 31.01.2012, 08:23
silverburn's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Unterageri
Posts: 824
Groaned at 37 Times in 21 Posts
Thanked 833 Times in 343 Posts
silverburn has a reputation beyond reputesilverburn has a reputation beyond reputesilverburn has a reputation beyond reputesilverburn has a reputation beyond repute
Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

Quote:
View Post
Normally it takes two to make them, no?
I could be pedantic and say it does take two, but the balance is not equal - for the man it takes minutes, for the woman, nine months!

You will also find breast feeding is *not* an equal opportunity activity. If you stick to the medical recommendations, that's for 6 months as well. As a father of one (soon to be two), I've seen how impractical it is fitting a professional around this.

Quote:
View Post
But I made the experience that it is actually the women who are the most conservative. It is THEM who think that another woman who is not willing to give up her job for her baby cannot possibly be a good mother...
If experienced mothers are casting this opinion, there might be something in it. As a man, I am immediately disqualified to offer one.

Last edited by silverburn; 31.01.2012 at 08:36.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank silverburn for this useful post:
  #66  
Old 31.01.2012, 10:23
nigelr's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Aargau
Posts: 1,642
Groaned at 118 Times in 59 Posts
Thanked 2,007 Times in 900 Posts
nigelr has a reputation beyond reputenigelr has a reputation beyond reputenigelr has a reputation beyond reputenigelr has a reputation beyond reputenigelr has a reputation beyond repute
Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

Quote:
View Post



This is the sort of friendly attitude that I feel makes it very hard for women to suceed at the top level. Whilst you might personally believe that a parent should stay at home for the first few years, I don't see why your personal opinion should affect my job prospects. Basically you are saying that if I am a successful career woman, by definition I must be a bad parent. You're assuming that the husband isn't doing anything in that equation, which I find odd given you yourself stayed home.

If we all followed this line of thinking, we'd ban all career-hungry CEOs of major companies (male or female) from procreating on the basis that they must all be bad parents and never have time for their kids. Come to think of it, that might not be such a bad idea....
My personal opinion doesn't affect your job prospects. Society (including you and me) makes the rules and defines normal practice. If you don't like it then change it, or at least try to.
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 31.01.2012, 11:10
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: la cote
Posts: 2,863
Groaned at 15 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 2,243 Times in 1,264 Posts
runningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

Quote:
View Post
So on one hand, you have a society that's set up so it's hard to be a working parent, and on the other, you're damned for wasting that education the state paid so much for. Obviously, the only solution is to stop educating girls beyond age ~14.
Actually that's precisely how it works, and the reason for the strict and early streaming in the swiss school system for the maturity or the trades routes. Not that long ago, the boys were streamed according to their fathers career, ie. their potential based on their fathers proven record. Girls weren't even in the equation.

While it may have gotten better in some places, it is indeed still the dark ages in many places still. Ask or look around at the ratio of girls to boys in the maturity stream. A friend of a friends daughter always did well in school until she was put in the lowest stream at the 6eme. The parents were initially surprised but soon found out that only the boys got streamed to the maturity level, all the girls were excluded. An old school teacher who thought the education would be wasted on the girls. The girl continued education at a private school.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank runningdeer for this useful post:
  #68  
Old 31.01.2012, 11:19
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Geneva
Posts: 520
Groaned at 43 Times in 28 Posts
Thanked 878 Times in 506 Posts
Reb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond repute
Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

Quote:
View Post
That's because they are working in lower paying fields.
Clearly, if an employer could pay someone 40% less to do a job, they would jump at the chance!
The fact that they don't says it all.
Tom
They are working in lower paying fields but also being paid less for equal work.
Quote:
Frauen arbeiteten viel häufiger in Tieflohnbereichen als Männer. Rund drei Viertel der Tieflohnstellen seien von Frauen besetzt. In den Betrieben hätten die Männer tendenziell die bessere berufliche Stellung.
«Und als ob dies alles nicht reichen würde, werden Frauen bei gleichwertiger Arbeit auch noch schlechter entlöhnt», sagte der SGB- Präsident. ...
So bestehe in der Maschinenindustrie immer noch eine durch keine anderen Faktoren erklärbare Lohndifferenz von 14,2 Prozent zwischen Frauen und Männern. Im Detailhandel betrage die Lohndiskriminierung 11,1 Prozent, in der Lebensmittelindustrie 12,8 Prozent und bei den Banken und Versicherungen 8,7 Prozent.
http://www.bernerzeitung.ch/schweiz/...876/print.html
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 31.01.2012, 11:43
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 22,238
Groaned at 1,169 Times in 916 Posts
Thanked 25,124 Times in 12,031 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

Quote:
View Post
They are working in lower paying fields but also being paid less for equal work.
So why would anyone ever hire a man if they can hire a woman to do the same job for less and thus reduce costs?

Something doesn't add up here.

Tom
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #70  
Old 31.01.2012, 11:44
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 6
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts
jkstanfi has no particular reputation at present
Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

My concern with this issue is that women are seemingly put in a damned if you do/damned if you don't position. If she is going to have children she is a liability--If she says she is not, she's either going to change her mind later, or there is something not quite right about her. So--its very hard to answer the question "correctly."

I fully understand the dilemma companies are put in when a woman leaves her post--but, in many cases her absence will be a temporary one (I for one can't afford to not work--regardless of whether I have children). Further, Companies seem to want a "forever" commitment, when the reality is employees, both male and female, move around more these days. Chances are the spot you fill today is going to be open again in a couple of years anyway.

A woman can contribute great things to a company--and in a fair world her ability to contribute would not be undermined by her decision to have children in the future. (although it does happen--I do not think most women seek out a job to immediately take advantage of the maternity benefits). I think this is part of why women have such a hard time with this question--because we sense that our intentions and ability to contribute are being questioned--before we have a chance to prove ourselves on the merits. From this perspective, its a bit insulting.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank jkstanfi for this useful post:
  #71  
Old 31.01.2012, 11:55
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Brussels, former Geneva area
Posts: 317
Groaned at 24 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 319 Times in 137 Posts
belgo has an excellent reputationbelgo has an excellent reputationbelgo has an excellent reputationbelgo has an excellent reputation
Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

However much I sympathize in theory, I have now seen it from the other side and it is not all black and white to blame employers. If you are (like in my case) trying to build a new company with a very small team it is hugely upsetting when a new person who you were counting on, informs you after two months that she is pregnant (after one month she suddenly was sick for 3 weeks and we were not allowed to ask what the problem was), then immediately changes priorities, brings in sickness notes more or less at random each time for a week supported by a helpful doctor, and leaving it up to me to try an maintain the going concern and find a replacement for the next 6 months. And eventually she chose herself not to come back. Yes, not a second time is what you think the next time. this is not a risk i can take again.
For a big corporation, it is a different story I agree. There is some handicap for young men in Switzerland as well after their studies. As long as they do have not fulfilled military service, they cannot get a stable job.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank belgo for this useful post:
  #72  
Old 31.01.2012, 12:06
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 26
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 8 Times in 6 Posts
Lindt Lover has no particular reputation at present
Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

Quote:
View Post
Oh, sure... simple example: Why do employers only as WOMEN about kids? Normally it takes two to make them, no?

I worked for a large Swedish company before. I bet with you that this question does not happen there as the system is set up completely differently: Men and Women BOTH take some time off after pregnancy (in turns, so always one is at home). If the time is not fairly spread between the two, they get less!

This system is not new and works fairly well in Scandinavia - the part of Europe which has not the same problems with low birth rates as most others. The system seems to motivate women to be able to have kids AND a career.

I do not see this or anything similar to happen in Switzerland anytime soon. The result is that many women are forced to choose between the two which I find wrong (and means that the birthrates are low as well as that the more wealthy and educated part of the society will have overproportionally fewer kids... ).
But the ironic thing is that from my experience talking to Swiss is it not some patriatic country steered by grumpy old men who don't want the women to work - it is a basic democracy and if all women would want it, they could relatively easily change their country. But I made the experience that it is actually the women who are the most conservative. It is THEM who think that another woman who is not willing to give up her job for her baby cannot possibly be a good mother...
Yes I have similar experiences too where my swiss (woman) ex boss suggested me to stay at home because I did have a daughter to look after and made the impossible to fired me and give bad references by phone for my new job opportunities, is Switzerland is so back in the time in confront to Europe is up to the swiss women too and my new colleagues are not better now..... they force me to do overtime even if they know I do have a baby in the nursery waiting for me....
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 31.01.2012, 13:06
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Posts: 21
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 13 Times in 8 Posts
degravesst has made some interesting contributions
Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

Quote:
View Post
My personal opinion doesn't affect your job prospects. Society (including you and me) makes the rules and defines normal practice. If you don't like it then change it, or at least try to.
Your personal opinion doesn't, but the opinion of people who share your view does.

Quote:
View Post
Society (including you and me) makes the rules and defines normal practice. If you don't like it then change it, or at least try to.
Sorry, but I find that society makes one set of rules on paper (women have equal chances) and then applies another (you are a bad parent if you take your equal chances). It is hard to change unwritten rules, especially when the result of discrimmination laws seem to be that nobody expresses views like yours to one's face but still applies those views to my job prospects.

I like to think of myself as a pragmatist. I'm an Aussie and I used to work in the UK. In my sector every Aussie has a "shelf life" of around 4 years max. So you needed to advertise (loudly) if you planned on staying around long term. I can accept that many if not all parents change their priorities when they have kids and often women decide to reduce the amount of time they spend at work / travelling / etc as they are frequently the primary carer. So if you want something different, I reckon you have to say so.

What really gets my goat is that even when I say so, it doesn't count because opinions like yours are louder than the words coming out of my mouth. When I returned to full time work (with my husband at home) another, more senior position came up. One person told me that I shouldn't be applying for such positions anymore as I had children (by the way, this person is a friend of mine and is still nursing his jaw for that remark). Views like this are the reason decent female employees are not even asked for senior positions. I don't mind swimming against the tide, but not even being asked regarding a position just sucks.

This is life and frankly it isn't going to change until we get more Swedish and start seeing parenting as a shared responsibility and not just "a woman's problem". However what I really hate is for people to claim that the situation of secret prejudice, biased and blocked opportunities is in any way fair or equal.

By the way, I would not have said (nor believed) any of the above before getting married and having kids. Up until then I thought it was a pretty level playing field.

Last but not least, I don't agree with your view that kids *must* be brought up by their parents or what's the point. In Asia it is pretty common for the extended family to bring up kids. My mother lived mainly with her grandma for 16 years and is no less close to her own mother or her family for that, despite living on the other side of the world.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank degravesst for this useful post:
  #74  
Old 31.01.2012, 13:20
nigelr's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Aargau
Posts: 1,642
Groaned at 118 Times in 59 Posts
Thanked 2,007 Times in 900 Posts
nigelr has a reputation beyond reputenigelr has a reputation beyond reputenigelr has a reputation beyond reputenigelr has a reputation beyond reputenigelr has a reputation beyond repute
Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

At no point did I say children MUST be brought up by a parent, and you have no idea what my views are. I stayed at home so my wife could have a career, it was my choice.

If you don't like the rules try to change them and stop guessing what my views and opinions are. I have already posted that it is unfair on women and I have also posted that it doesn't matter which parent looks after the kids.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank nigelr for this useful post:
  #75  
Old 31.01.2012, 13:39
Peg A's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 4,435
Groaned at 163 Times in 128 Posts
Thanked 5,428 Times in 2,510 Posts
Peg A has a reputation beyond reputePeg A has a reputation beyond reputePeg A has a reputation beyond reputePeg A has a reputation beyond reputePeg A has a reputation beyond reputePeg A has a reputation beyond repute
Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

Quote:
View Post

Last but not least, I don't agree with your view that kids *must* be brought up by their parents or what's the point. In Asia it is pretty common for the extended family to bring up kids. My mother lived mainly with her grandma for 16 years and is no less close to her own mother or her family for that, despite living on the other side of the world.

Playing a bit of "devil's advocate" for a moment - there is a huge difference between hiring a nanny vs "full family involvement" (extended family helping with new generation).

Secondly, with how many educated people put off having children until they are "established", there also is a huge difference between the grannies of today helping with the youngins compared to the grannies of yesteryear. My great-grandmother was a teen when she had my grandma, my grandma not yet 20 when she had my mother, my mother was 21 when she had my sister - but all the women in my generation of my family waited to have children until in their 30s. Many of my friends have similar "track record" in their families (as do my Swiss in-laws).

So, given that, when my mother had me (at 23), my grandmother was in her early 40s - meanwhile, my own mother was in her later 50s by the time grandkids started showing. While some say (and there is some proof) that people are fitter longer these days, surely there is some difference between how well a 42 yo granny can handle a 2yo throwing a fit compared to a 65yo granny? (This I have experience with since I help my mother-in-law, in her 60s, when she's watching my nephews, aged 3yr and 9mos, because is simply wears her out too much to handle them alone.)



Going back to what I think though, I think it shouldn't be wrong to ASK. I think though it is wrong for them to treat you differently based upon your answer, no matter what it is. The issue of whether women choose to bring forth life and how it affects the company is the companies problem, it shouldn't be the woman's problem... and "society" should have ways to help minimize the problem that companies have with it. Thankfully there ARE ways - they're called "temp agencies".

Also, while I DO seriously think there is a difference between hiring a nanny and having "grandma" (or auntie, or whomever) to help out, I realize that for some families, it is the best answer. I think children can have a close relationship with their nanny, and that the nanny can have a good relationship with the family... however, you can fire a nanny but you can't fire grandma, and this is something that must be accounted for by both the family and the nanny as well.
__________________
The Joys of Opticianry

Last edited by Peg A; 31.01.2012 at 13:42. Reason: adding... avoid double post
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Peg A for this useful post:
  #76  
Old 31.01.2012, 13:46
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Basel
Posts: 10
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Belen1982 has no particular reputation at present
Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

unbelievable!
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 31.01.2012, 15:00
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 22,238
Groaned at 1,169 Times in 916 Posts
Thanked 25,124 Times in 12,031 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

Quote:
View Post
This is life and frankly it isn't going to change until we get more Swedish
Please, not more Swedish!

If anyone wants to get more Swedish, I have three cans of surstroemming in the fridge!

Tom
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #78  
Old 31.01.2012, 15:14
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 21,038
Groaned at 445 Times in 337 Posts
Thanked 23,990 Times in 10,889 Posts
Odile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond repute
Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

Quote:
View Post
Actually that's precisely how it works, and the reason for the strict and early streaming in the swiss school system for the maturity or the trades routes. Not that long ago, the boys were streamed according to their fathers career, ie. their potential based on their fathers proven record. Girls weren't even in the equation.

While it may have gotten better in some places, it is indeed still the dark ages in many places still. Ask or look around at the ratio of girls to boys in the maturity stream. A friend of a friends daughter always did well in school until she was put in the lowest stream at the 6eme. The parents were initially surprised but soon found out that only the boys got streamed to the maturity level, all the girls were excluded. An old school teacher who thought the education would be wasted on the girls. The girl continued education at a private school.

I am really surprised at this. Where do you live? I was educated in Switzerland in the 50s and 60s. In my Lycée for the Bac we were about 2/3rds girl in my class! The few kids who went to private school for 6th Form were all from Bourgeois background who didn't make the grade academically and were sent to boarding school- or indeed the 'finishing' type of school like Iseltwald! Whenever I didn't work hard enough, that was the ultimate threat for me, lol. At the same Lycée currently, same proportion, quite a few girls more than boys.
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 31.01.2012, 15:24
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 21,038
Groaned at 445 Times in 337 Posts
Thanked 23,990 Times in 10,889 Posts
Odile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond repute
Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

One of my daughters in the UK has 2 little ones. She has done extremely well in her chosen career, and when she had her first child she stayed home for the maximum time allowed and was able to breast feed for 6+ months. Her business really valued her and gave her time. On her return she continued her career progress, and then had number 2 and stayed home for the same amount of time. After returning to work, she caught up again fast with her career, and then was offered a partnership. She would have loved to work part-time, but in her position it was just not possible. Her OH also was doing well in his, and also knew that taking time off to be a home-dad would kill his progression. They therefore chose the Nanny route. They found somebody they can trust and work as a team- it is very expensive but works really well, and the kids do NOT suffer at all. They take it in turn to be home early- and they have lots of fun activities at week-ends and during holidays.
Are they bad parents? Is she any more 'bad' because she is the mother?
It is hard at times, takes a lot of organisation- and yes, there is always a price to pay in one way or another. But they are excellent parents- doing lots of sport, fun, arts and crafts, walks, and always cooking healthy meals from scratch. I take my hat off to them, to both of them, especially as none of the grand-parents are nearby. They know though that in an emergency I'd be on the next plane and there to take over within hours- and that when the children are a bit older, they will be coming to spend weeks during hols with us.

In many careers, like my daughters, working part-time or staying home for a few years, mean that catching up later will just be impossible.

I had no choice bu to stay at home until both of mine went to school- for all sorts of reasons. Went to Uni when youngest started school, so had almost 8 years at home. But then I built up my career very fast as I was 'ready' for the off, with lots of support from OH. Must say though that as a working mum and senior teacher/manager- I got fed up with female colleagues and staff who made NO provision for taking care of the children when ill, etc- and always took time off for them because 'their husband's jobs were too important, etc, for them to share emergency care'. As a couple WE always made sure we had emergency cover organised (not easy as we didn't have any family or parents nearby) and took it in turns if necessary. Some women sadly, give us all a bad name sometimes by expecting colleagues and others to pick up the tab.

Last edited by Odile; 31.01.2012 at 15:49.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Odile for this useful post:
  #80  
Old 31.01.2012, 17:20
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Posts: 21
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 13 Times in 8 Posts
degravesst has made some interesting contributions
Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

Quote:
View Post
At no point did I say children MUST be brought up by a parent, and you have no idea what my views are. I stayed at home so my wife could have a career, it was my choice.
True, I read a "should" as a must. Being Australian I am not terribly subtle, you see.

I suspect that you and I aren't really that far apart on views about this. I don't like the idea of my kids being in creche full time, five days a week at a very young age. I would be interested to at least try a (good, permanent) nanny for some of the time if both of us are working. By the way, my mother stayed home full time until I was at school. I remember with relief when she went back to work - she was mostly unhappy at home.

Quote:
View Post
If you don't like the rules try to change them and stop guessing what my views and opinions are. I have already posted that it is unfair on women and I have also posted that it doesn't matter which parent looks after the kids.
Agree with everything except for the "go forth and change the world" bit. As I said, the problem isn't the formal rules, it is the subtle form of discrimmination which in the workplace seems unique to women and at home seems unique to SAHDs. I would feel much happier in some ways if people just turned around and said to my face "You shouldn't be in a serious job due to your kids". At least I could punch said face.

I'm interested (and glad) to see that you never got any stick for staying at home in the UK. Can't say the same about my husband's experiences here.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank degravesst for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Would you like to have Swiss German as an official language in place of High German? alessione Language corner 104 16.02.2015 16:46
Would you like to donate toys/ children's clothing/misc items for charity? mazule Daily life 34 21.02.2012 00:16
If you could be any 3 EFers for a day, who would like to be and why? lost_inbroad General off-topic 108 22.01.2012 10:24
Probability of finding an intellectually stimulating job if you have children Rangatiranui Employment 54 27.04.2011 21:36
I would like to take care of children or elders! Sashka Family matters/health 3 07.12.2010 14:59


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 10:05.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0