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  #101  
Old 01.02.2012, 19:55
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Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

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As per my post, potential mothers who take on a job before a planned pregnancy in order to receive maternity pay is in my opinion milking the system.

Compare that to parents who, on deciding to have and raise children leave their job and income to raise their children. They definitely don't consider an employer paying them to do no work for the company. My parents and many generations before seemed to pull it off.

Again, as posted above I am not against such programs as maternity leave, I do support the program for both parents (obviously parental dependent on the respectable timing for the child), but have experienced many cases of abuse, which have been improperly considered as acceptable in my opinion.

Just my opinion, but if I do decide to have children, at least one parent will be at home to take on the full time responsibility of raising a child. The guilt of forcing an independent employer to provide a paycheque for this, would be out of the question.
Wait, so a woman shouldn't try to conceive while looking for a job? Or a woman who think of having a child in a near future shouldn't get a job to not milk the system? She contributed in that system while working you know? It comes from HER taxes as well. She doesn't milk a system she is putting money in. Like a guy who lose his job and is on the work benefits, he is not milking the system, he also contributed to it.
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  #102  
Old 01.02.2012, 19:57
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Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

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This must be trolling. Not even chemists... or could they? Anyway, I'll bite.

So what about unplanned then? How do you tell them apart? Do you have to submit receipts for condoms or empty "pill" blisters to your employer?
Unless there's a forced rape involved, one should have the foresight to consider pregnancy when ever doing the deed no matter how much protection is involved. Unless one is sterile of course, then go wild!

There has been a few comments on previous threads concerning 'fathers' who don't want to pay support, and there's always a comment alone the lines of "you wanted some action and got her knocked up, now man-up and deal with it"--which I agree totally agree with.
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  #103  
Old 01.02.2012, 19:58
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Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

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Unless there's a forced rape involved, one should have the foresight to consider pregnancy when ever doing the deed no matter how much protection is involved. Unless one is sterile of course, then go wild!

There has been a few comments on previous threads concerning 'fathers' who don't want to pay support, and there's always a comment alone the lines of "you wanted some action and got her knocked up, now man-up and deal with it"--which I agree totally agree with.
So according to your logic, all pregnancies are planned, unless it was rape. You don't sleep with women much, do you now?
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  #104  
Old 01.02.2012, 19:59
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Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

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Unless there's a forced rape involved, one should have the foresight to consider pregnancy when ever doing the deed no matter how much protection is involved. Unless one is sterile of course, then go wild!

There has been a few comments on previous threads concerning 'fathers' who don't want to pay support, and there's always a comment alone the lines of "you wanted some action and got her knocked up, now man-up and deal with it"--which I agree totally agree with.
Well, I'll tell you a fact. Not all condoms and/or pills are 100% safe, sometimes not even when put together...

If you want someone to take responsibility for it, they need to work.
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  #105  
Old 01.02.2012, 20:02
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Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

Tell them you're a militant Lesbian! I bet their reaction to that would be pretty illustrative of their attitude as an employer. Of course in common with the "correct" answer to the question (none of your business), it's not necessarily the sort of thing most people would say in a real interview situation where they actually want the job. In the cases where you might not have got an offer, had you considered making a formal complaint of some kind to their legal department? While it might not get you too far, it might at least help the next person to come along.
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  #106  
Old 01.02.2012, 20:03
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Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

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So according to your logic, all pregnancies are planned, unless it was rape. You don't sleep with women much, do you now?
As opposed to sleeping around thinking: She'll never get pregnant, that's absolutely impossible.
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  #107  
Old 01.02.2012, 20:03
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Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

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As opposed to sleeping around thinking: She'll never get pregnant, that's absolutely impossible.
I rest my case.
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  #108  
Old 01.02.2012, 20:05
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Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

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As per my post, potential mothers who take on a job before a planned pregnancy in order to receive maternity pay is in my opinion milking the system.
So that's pretty much any woman who ever plans to have kids then.

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Compare that to parents who, on deciding to have and raise children leave their job and income to raise their children. They definitely don't consider an employer paying them to do no work for the company. My parents and many generations before seemed to pull it off.
Having dealt with something does not make it ethical.

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Again, as posted above I am not against such programs as maternity leave, I do support the program for both parents (obviously parental dependent on the respectable timing for the child), but have experienced many cases of abuse, which have been improperly considered as acceptable in my opinion.
I don't follow your examples of abuse. I mean, in a given career lifetime, let's say a woman goes for gold with 4 kids. In the grand scheme of things, that's still not a lot of time off in Switzerland.

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Just my opinion, but if I do decide to have children, at least one parent will be at home to take on the full time responsibility of raising a child.
It doesn't always work out as planned. Plans are great but as I've learned from friends and others on this forum, flexibility is even greater. Health problems, unemployment and all sorts of factors will influence who is and who is not working.

I'm still not even sure how your comment above pertains to maternity pay really. I mean, my husband will be a SAHD whilst I work full-time. But I still plan to take the brief maternity leave provided here.

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The guilt of forcing an independent employer to provide a paycheque for this, would be out of the question.
Just so you know, you have to take a minimum leave after having a baby, at which time you do receive maternity pay. You can't just pop out the baby and return to work the next day or week. So if you ever plan to have kids, I'll assume you will refuse all maternity pay whilst you must remain out of the office.

As for me, I'd feel guiltier leaving my newborn at home if I even had the option to return to work immediately.

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Well I'm not sure how much education I am getting, but I am getting paid to perform and publish research, and I do pay a lot more taxes here than I did in Canada, so I seem it's fair.
Really? Just plain curious what percentage you're paying, as Canada has much higher tax rates.
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  #109  
Old 01.02.2012, 20:07
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Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

My point is that one should always consider pregnancy, and raising a child and all the financial and time responsibilities that are involved before engaging in actions which might produce a child. But it seems that misjudgment and lack of foresight in these cases become the fiscal responsibly of the employer.
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  #110  
Old 01.02.2012, 20:11
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Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

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My point is that one should always consider pregnancy, and raising a child and all the financial and time responsibilities that are involved before engaging in actions which might produce a child. But it seems that misjudgment and lack of foresight in these cases become the fiscal responsibly of the employer.
Wot the lack of foresight to win the lottery pre-pregnancy?
In your world, only the super-rich, the Stepford Wives, and the feckless on the dole would have kids. That's not the real world. You need to get out more.
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  #111  
Old 01.02.2012, 20:14
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Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

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Wot the lack of foresight to win the lottery pre-pregnancy?
In your world, only the super-rich, the Stepford Wives, and the feckless on the dole would have kids. That's not the real world. You need to get out more.
Again, this is an extreme example. You don't have to be super rich to raise kids, you can even do it well under the middle class. It comes down to living within-your-means and proper life and fiscal planning--skills that are sorely lacking in many but I was brought up to respect--maybe that isn't the real world.
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  #112  
Old 01.02.2012, 20:41
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Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

Wow, some rabid folks here.

Good grief.

As if someone who doesn't have kids shouldn't have an opinion? That's some serious bs there, ya'll should know better - it's not like any of us was BORN with kids, or automatically acquired them upon adult hood so I'm sure you had opinions about this stuff BEFORE you had kids yourselves.

The key part I noticed in what Chemmie said, which some of ya'll seemed to have overlooked is this:

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I also agree it is an inappropriate question to ask. But coming from Canada and hanging around with mostly soon to graduate/new graduate nursing females at the peak of their re productivity. They all always openly discussed landing that full time position and getting over the probation periods so they could have kids and milk the free income. As soon as this ran out, it was serious strategic timing of using vacation/sick/personal days until the next baby was ready. Absolutely made me sick! Such blatant liberal bullshxt. One of the main reasons I was happy to jump continent and move somewhere a bit 'backwards' but logically sound ignoring much political correctness.
The people in question he mentioned actually SAID they were planning to milk the system!

Quit trying to make it out like he's wanting to attack every woman of reproductive age and capability - he's simply arguing against people who purposefully abuse the available system.
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  #113  
Old 01.02.2012, 21:08
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Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

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Quit trying to make it out like he's wanting to attack every woman of reproductive age and capability - he's simply arguing against people who purposefully abuse the available system.
Because he later said that that was the case for every pregnancy that was not the result of rape? Because he said that all maternity payments were "handouts"?
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  #114  
Old 01.02.2012, 21:16
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Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

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Because he later said that that was the case for every pregnancy that was not the result of rape? Because he said that all maternity payments were "handouts"?
Whoa Nelly, you definitely read that wrong:

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As per my post,.....

As per my post (referring to the situation mentioned above).

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......potential mothers who take on a job before a planned pregnancy in order to receive maternity pay is in my opinion milking the system......
This should be read as the situations where they were taking on the job just to get maternity pay.

Thought it was clear, but apparently not.
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  #115  
Old 01.02.2012, 21:30
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Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

Switzerland is a very conservative country where women at work are tolerated as long as they perform poorly paid jobs and not have managerial positions.

Of course you can have children, but be prepared to find your career abruptly stopped. Women with children are expected to stay at home to look after their kids and prepare dinner for their husband (swiss women with children are married). This is like the UK and other countries in the 1950s.

I am Swiss and male but after having several years abroad I found coming back really hard. People here are really not open. Fortunally 20 % are foreign nationals and the % is going up!

If you really want a career I suggest hysterectomy and have the surgeon issue a uterus-free certificate that you can show to prospective employees along with your CV, work certificate, etc

Disclaimer: this is meant to be humoristic, please do not contact any surgeon
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  #116  
Old 01.02.2012, 22:26
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Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

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Because he later said that that was the case for every pregnancy that was not the result of rape? Because he said that all maternity payments were "handouts"?
Let's see how your statements get twisted and then what your responses to the twists become when there are not one but three (and more?) people misconstruing virtually everything you say.
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  #117  
Old 01.02.2012, 22:27
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Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

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Wow, some rabid folks here.

Good grief.

As if someone who doesn't have kids shouldn't have an opinion? That's some serious bs there, ya'll should know better - it's not like any of us was BORN with kids, or automatically acquired them upon adult hood so I'm sure you had opinions about this stuff BEFORE you had kids yourselves
Yes I did have opinions about this before I had kids. And after I got the first, I realized how wrong I was and I little I knew.

Maybe others are knowing already and are pin point on it but I wasn't. You see, I don't have a snake, I never had a snake. I can imagine how to take care of it, feed it and whatever comes with it. But until I own one, I can only imagine and get my informations from someone who has a snake. The chances are that when I will own a snake, I will find out a lot of stuff I didn't know and a lot if stuff I thought I knew but I don't. I will also find out that, yes some stuff I knew already. But until I have a snake, I can't call myself an expert in snakery... (sorry for the word invention here).

Now that I have two kids, I don't know more than others, I know more than others about MY kids. I know things because of the experiences I had with them. But I don't know what it is like when they are older because I am not there yet. So those who went through teenage years know more than me about the subject in general, but have a pretty good ideas about their own children.

My point is that people can share their opinions and it is very nice to have people's opinions, experiences and feedback. But I don't have a snake, I don't know much about it so I won't tell a snake owner how to take care of it.

I hope I manage to share my opinion without offending anyone. I have certainly not this intention. I just want to give my opinion too.

Last edited by Nil; 01.02.2012 at 22:31. Reason: Damn you autocorrect...
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  #118  
Old 01.02.2012, 22:54
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Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

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Yes I did have opinions about this before I had kids. And after I got the first, I realized how wrong I was and I little I knew.

Maybe others are knowing already and are pin point on it but I wasn't. You see, I don't have a snake, I never had a snake. I can imagine how to take care of it, feed it and whatever comes with it. But until I own one, I can only imagine and get my informations from someone who has a snake. The chances are that when I will own a snake, I will find out a lot of stuff I didn't know and a lot if stuff I thought I knew but I don't. I will also find out that, yes some stuff I knew already. But until I have a snake, I can't call myself an expert in snakery... (sorry for the word invention here).

Now that I have two kids, I don't know more than others, I know more than others about MY kids. I know things because of the experiences I had with them. But I don't know what it is like when they are older because I am not there yet. So those who went through teenage years know more than me about the subject in general, but have a pretty good ideas about their own children.

My point is that people can share their opinions and it is very nice to have people's opinions, experiences and feedback. But I don't have a snake, I don't know much about it so I won't tell a snake owner how to take care of it.

I hope I manage to share my opinion without offending anyone. I have certainly not this intention. I just want to give my opinion too.
The snake analogy is semi-valid. The one failing issue, is that every family (the nuclear family) doesn't have have a snake, and parents don't always give pointers and examples on how to raise snakes.

again to re-iterate, I do believe in maternity leave, and I think it's important for the working parent to be able to raise their children in the very crucial years and not lose pace in their career. That being said, I don't think it is necessary, and I will definitely not be taking it. My personal plan for a family (just for interest sake-by no means a suggestion for others) is to have a partner with the same education and skills/employ-ability such that either could leave their job whenever, and restart whenever as we pleased, where we pleased. This plan worked well for a good decade, and if an unplanned pregnancy were to happen (as in not: lets make a baby) we would have financial stability and a nest egg to rely on in case of sickness, emergency, accident, apocalypse whathaveyou. These were just values I was brought up with.
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  #119  
Old 01.02.2012, 22:57
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Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

Snake came in mind but take a dog instead... Some families have 2-3-4 dogs, there you go. Since so many people have a dog here.
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Old 01.02.2012, 22:58
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Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

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Yes I did have opinions about this before I had kids. And after I got the first, I realized how wrong I was and I little I knew.

Maybe others are knowing already and are pin point on it but I wasn't. You see, I don't have a snake, I never had a snake. I can imagine how to take care of it, feed it and whatever comes with it. But until I own one, I can only imagine and get my informations from someone who has a snake. The chances are that when I will own a snake, I will find out a lot of stuff I didn't know and a lot if stuff I thought I knew but I don't. I will also find out that, yes some stuff I knew already. But until I have a snake, I can't call myself an expert in snakery... (sorry for the word invention here).

Now that I have two kids, I don't know more than others, I know more than others about MY kids. I know things because of the experiences I had with them. But I don't know what it is like when they are older because I am not there yet. So those who went through teenage years know more than me about the subject in general, but have a pretty good ideas about their own children.

My point is that people can share their opinions and it is very nice to have people's opinions, experiences and feedback. But I don't have a snake, I don't know much about it so I won't tell a snake owner how to take care of it.

I hope I manage to share my opinion without offending anyone. I have certainly not this intention. I just want to give my opinion too.

Comparing owning a pet (and a snake at that!) to having children? Really, Nil?

While one may or may not at some point have a snake, or have a friend who had a snake, you are right, there probably are a lot of things you only find out about after you have one, including how you feel about having and caring for it.

On the other hand, most people, even those who don't have children themselves, grew up around other children, know people who have children and maybe even participate in the caring of others' children.

So, having opinions about things with regard to benefits and risks (social, government or otherwise) of having children, for yourself or others, is just a bit different than having opinions about the owning of a snake. (Point being that since snakes aren't really a common pet, you could go your whole life without ever knowing anyone who owns a snake... the same is highly unlikely to be true about interacting with children and people who have them.)
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