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  #161  
Old 27.10.2012, 22:59
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Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

It's ok, I'm beginning to realize that they won't hire me now that I am done being pregnant, either TBH, I haven't applied much but still no bites on jobs that I felt I should have gotten an interview for...oh well. All those years in school and everything...at least it was a good time!
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  #162  
Old 29.10.2012, 10:45
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Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

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That is ILLEGAL in the US
So what?

Tom
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  #163  
Old 29.10.2012, 10:58
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Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

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It's ok, I'm beginning to realize that they won't hire me now that I am done being pregnant, either TBH, I haven't applied much but still no bites on jobs that I felt I should have gotten an interview for...oh well. All those years in school and everything...at least it was a good time!
You serious? Of course someone will hire you! Judging by your nickname, you have PhD in something (which is a huge achievement in itself, don't ever underestimate the work needed for that).

Plus, you have kid(s), therefore you have a healthy balance in your life, which is important.

As an exception rather than a rule, but I know one very skilled person who was hired despite being (early) pregnant. The best decision company probably ever made, not because of the pregnancy, but because of that lady!
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  #164  
Old 29.10.2012, 13:30
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Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

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So what?

Tom
Just stating a fact. no need to be snarky ... I am surprised that it should be an issue anywhere .. Switzerland, US, Mexico, whatever. Do they ask this of men? No.
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  #165  
Old 29.10.2012, 13:51
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Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

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It's ok, I'm beginning to realize that they won't hire me now that I am done being pregnant, either TBH, I haven't applied much but still no bites on jobs that I felt I should have gotten an interview for...oh well. All those years in school and everything...at least it was a good time!
Are you applying through people you know at the target firm?
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  #166  
Old 29.10.2012, 13:58
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Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

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Are you applying through people you know at the target firm?
I unfortunately don't know anyone at the company...we just moved to Switzerland a year ago and I have been out of work for 8 years now...being a trailing spouse can sometimes get in the way, too
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  #167  
Old 29.10.2012, 14:20
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Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

Totally agree, is shouldn't happen. But in many countries where it is illegal to ask - people find ways to go around it. At one of the schools where I was a senior teacher who interviewed future staff- strict guidelines prevented us from asking. The Headmaster however would hang around the staff room where candidates would be waiting, make conversation, make them coffee, etc- find out all sort of private information while 'innocently' chit-chatting and pass it on to the board, via his mobile when 'making coffee'!
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  #168  
Old 29.10.2012, 14:23
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Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

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Just stating a fact. no need to be snarky ... I am surprised that it should be an issue anywhere .. Switzerland, US, Mexico, whatever. Do they ask this of men? No.
Sixjewells, as you get to know Switzerland better you likely find that a number of things that are forbidden elsewhere are allowed here. Sometimes this is a good thing, sometimes not. It takes a bit of getting used to.

There are many good things about Switzerland. That some of the more old-fashioned notions of the role of women are still in practice in some companies is not one of them.
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  #169  
Old 30.10.2012, 13:06
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Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

I've always thought that the fair solution would be for every employee to be given, say, 2 x six months sabbatical during their working life, paid by the tax payer (i.e. effectively self-funded) at a rate TBA. That way, if people want to have children, they get the necessary leave and fathers can take it too - or mother and father can take consecutive periods to make up a year - and people who don't want children can use the time for whatever they want, further study, travel etc. It also allows employers to plan because they know *everybody* (including management) is entitled to this time. For some reason I don't understand, this seems to be a controversial idea
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  #170  
Old 30.10.2012, 13:19
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Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

I have no problem, per se, with the company knowing my status - I can see it from both sides and I think in the end being honest is always the best route. My last job, I was being re-hired by a company that laid me off a year earlier. They contacted me to see if I was interested in coming back, I told them I was, but that we were soon going to try and start a family. I ended up there just for a year as it didn't take too much effort to get pregnant. Unfortunately, that job required too much travel for me to keep once the kids were here.

Now my kids are 8,6 and 3 and I wouldn't mind working...too bad the men aren't asked if they have kids to take care of at home. Anyways, time to work on my next cover letter. Now decide, German or English...
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  #171  
Old 31.10.2012, 01:13
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Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

Why would they ask Men that? We are simple to figure out




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Just stating a fact. no need to be snarky ... I am surprised that it should be an issue anywhere .. Switzerland, US, Mexico, whatever. Do they ask this of men? No.
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  #172  
Old 31.10.2012, 08:21
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Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

aaaahh the question.

it is funny beause i was never asked this, but 4 years ago I decided to change jobs.

the first interview was nice, it was with a pannel of 6 persons asking me questions about my cv, etc. No questions were made about children.

after I went to a interview for a phd & assistant position, and I was not asked, but, received the comment "the phd is not a good option when you have kids or PLANNING TO HAVE!it is extremelly difficult to manage both, so we don't encourage this".
my anwser was: well for now I am just thinking about the phd
my thoughts: what the F&%%##???? it's my personnal decision, not yours :S

I got the phd/assistant and considering to stop it and get a real life

I meet a girl years ago in swimming classes (here in CH), and she told she only got a job when the smallest was 5 years, in the interview people would say "3 years?? oh we will get ill so many times and you will need to take days off....". this continued until the youngest arrived to the status "free of daily health problems" according to the "managers".

but I listen to stories about this in any place in europe and usa. it's stupid, I agree that managers have to deal with replacements, etc.... but they also have to deal when someone gets a urgent medical tratement or injured or has personal problem... they are managing people not machines.
And it is also normal to have to deal with their "bad reaction" to all type of "problems".
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  #173  
Old 02.11.2012, 21:34
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Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

Simply say, "No thank you, I prefer to bring my lunch." and then just stare into their eyes with a blank, but sincere stare and a slight smile.
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Old 10.11.2012, 12:18
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Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

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Rubbish. I hate it when people who do not get the basics of statistics right are allowed to publish "studies": Swiss women do by themselves everything they can to get themselves lower salaries.

What defines your salary? Ideally your skillset and your work experience. Skillset is essentially your formal education... and while women in Switzerland are actually the majority at university are they extremely under represented in all the majors that get you a highly paid job: Finance, business, engineering, IT,... you name it. They are vastly overrepresented in the humanities, arts, languageges and anything that is known to not score you a job.

When I picked my major, I did not only study it cause I was interested in the topic but also put job prospects into the equation. Most Swiss men do the same if not more so - they expect to be at some point the bread winner of the family. Surprisingly many Swiss girls see university as the time to have fun and study whatever they find interesting - as they have the plan to work for some years in some fun job and then become a housewive and mother. I have no problem with anyone who wants to be a housewive. At all. But I find it plain idiotic to scream "discrimination" when women are responsible for the majority of the salary gap themselves... I worked in technical companies and know for a fact that the few female engineers (none of them Swiss) I met did get the same as their male counterparts.

(I am not saying that there is zero discrimination - I am sure there is - but it does not explain the 40% at all.)
I'd like to see an equivalent Swiss study, but this American article addresses the points you make here. Basically, the wage gap there is about 77 cents to the dollar, yet after accounting for the factors you mention the difference was still 80 cents to the dollar. It's an interesting read and really debunks the idea that women are responsible for the pay gap.

This part here is more relevant to this thread:

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There have been other studies along these lines, like one that showed people identical résumés but with some mentioning that the applicant was a mother and others mentioning the applicant was a father. Fathers were offered $6,000 more than non-fathers in compensation; mothers were offered $11,000 less than non-mothers.
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Old 11.11.2012, 02:48
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Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

I remember my parents had a small business a while ago. After (young) ladies got a permanent contract, thank you very much, pregnant within a month. And they were gone for about 3/4 months.

Guess who paid for that?
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  #176  
Old 11.11.2012, 02:53
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Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

Also, the company I work for, got a lady colleague who has been working there for about 2 years now. She has had 2 babies since. In total she has been away for about 1 year because of some complications. Hey, this can happen right? Anyway, the company paid her for 2 years, and she worked for 1 year...

No wonder why companies are a bit careful, no?
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  #177  
Old 11.11.2012, 11:26
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Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

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Simply say, "No thank you, I prefer to bring my lunch." and then just stare into their eyes with a blank, but sincere stare and a slight smile.
Well if you provide such a flippant answer, why bother getting out of bed to go to the interview at all ?
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Old 11.11.2012, 12:29
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Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

It sucks.

My suggestion to all the ladies out there: always have with you a print of the law that bans this question.
If during the interview/presentations/etc you have felt that you actually don't want the job, the moment they ask this question show them the law.
This way you are not jeopardizing your chances (given you already know that you don't want the job) and you make the interviewer think better the next time. It's a small step that if many women did it it would lead to an overall change of attitude.

Also, you can use this strategy if you really want the job but you feel your chances are low. Show them the law. They may end up offering you the job just to avoid you reporting them for discriminating against you for not answering the question (which is your legal right).


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I'd like to see an equivalent Swiss study, but this American article addresses the points you make here. Basically, the wage gap there is about 77 cents to the dollar, yet after accounting for the factors you mention the difference was still 80 cents to the dollar. It's an interesting read and really debunks the idea that women are responsible for the pay gap.

This part here is more relevant to this thread:
My feeling is that at least where I have worked, my female colleagues made more or less the same money as me for the same position and level, but I would like to see broader statistics on the issue too.
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  #179  
Old 13.11.2012, 21:00
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Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

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Personally I think a parent should stay at home with the children in the early years. For much of that time with my first 2 it was me and not the mother.

I would hate to be a women and have to choose between family and a career. By the same token the career woman who has had 3 kids and risen to the top of her profession in 10 years probably had them all in full time nanny care since they were a few weeks old, in which case why bother having kids?

Also from a small business viewpoint this is a massive issue.
In my personal experience, not having parents at home made me and my sibling more curious, more independent and more fearless. Most of my friends had trouble with laundry, cooking, cleaning when they first moved out. This wasn't something we had problems with because it was never one parent's full-time job to care for us, we all took care of each other.

Both my parents had careers, and they managed just fine, and we only needed the nanny for the first five years.
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  #180  
Old 13.11.2012, 21:01
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Re: tired of being asked in jobs interviews if I would like to have children.

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I remember my parents had a small business a while ago. After (young) ladies got a permanent contract, thank you very much, pregnant within a month. And they were gone for about 3/4 months.

Guess who paid for that?
Well, if we had a chance to not take leave, it would be an issue, but you're forced out the door by law here... So maybe it's the swiss traditionalists thinking women should be holed up with baby in arms for four months that you have a beef with?
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