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  #21  
Old 10.02.2012, 00:46
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Re: Idiots who walk in front of trams and buses

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Very dangerous especially in the weather we're having where the ground's icy and you're prone to slipping....
Also very dangerous because one day they will do that when I am in a Mirage tram (i.e. one of the trams where the doors open quickly) and I will chase the stupid twunt down (after looking left and right before I run after him) and deck the amoebic pond scum pseudo-thrill seeker. For all the bruises, for all the squashed cakes, for all the smelly people who fell on me and just for being an utter idiot.
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  #22  
Old 10.02.2012, 00:47
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Re: Idiots who walk in front of trams and buses

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Actually the story of that junction is that in the past it was much more ordered with space for trams and for pedestrians and for cars all being well separated with lots of painted lines and zebra crossings and traffic lights and things. But even then there were lots of accidents. So they came up with this theory that of you leave away all the markings and crossings, people will act more respectfully and responsibly. I haven't seen the statistics so don't know if it worked.
Exhibition Road in South Ken, London has just been reopened having been restructured on the same "shared space" principle .. see attached link for more justification of just how this shared space theory should work in practice. http://www.rbkc.gov.uk/subsites/exhi...aschanged.aspx

Personally speaking, it is hard to teach children about road safety when obvious road markings and distinctions (things such as pavements) are missing. So I just hold onto their hands for dear life ...
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  #23  
Old 10.02.2012, 00:59
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Re: Idiots who walk in front of trams and buses

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I don't think you are stupid, I'm sorry if that's what you got out of what I said.
No, what I got out of it was that you thought Longbyt was stupid.

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From the air I can see white lines - the look like those that are for the blind and they generally put those in such a way that a tram driver will have time to spot a blind person and stop.
I don't recall seeing those bumpy white lines for the visually-impaired there, or many lines at all, for that matter -- someone please correct me if my recollection is off. I suspect the aerial shot you saw is a little old and that the lines are no longer there, as amogles explained.
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Old 10.02.2012, 00:59
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Re: Idiots who walk in front of trams and buses

I missed the incident by Zypressenstrasse ZH today by - thankfully - seconds. There's a certain sound to emergency breaks which tell you as a pedestrian it's serious. I've been involved in several fatal RTAs and the eerie silence immediately afterwards somehow tells you a soul has been lost. Props to the police in their handling.

Lets not be hasty in reaction to condemn.
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  #25  
Old 10.02.2012, 01:09
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Re: Idiots who walk in front of trams and buses

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No, what I got out of it was that you thought Longbyt was stupid.
Well I wasn't exactly proud of my show of intelligence. I should have been more careful. The tram didn't have to brake or anything, but it gave me a very big shock to see him still coming when I had thought he would turn.
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Old 10.02.2012, 01:31
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Re: Idiots who walk in front of trams and buses

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Well I wasn't exactly proud of my show of intelligence. I should have been more careful. The tram didn't have to brake or anything, but it gave me a very big shock to see him still coming when I had thought he would turn.
Don't beat yourself up on that one Longbyt, most of us have made a lapse in judgement at one time or another, I know I have but was very lucky that I double checked at the last second and did a pretty cool emergency diversive manoeuvre, but that is a very different thing to deliberately trying to 'beat the tram'.
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Old 10.02.2012, 05:52
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Re: Idiots who walk in front of trams and buses

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Buses don't. Trams do.
try claiming your right of way versus a postbus in schaffhausen and come back to tell us of your experience...
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  #28  
Old 10.02.2012, 10:19
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Re: Idiots who walk in front of trams and buses

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try claiming your right of way versus a postbus in schaffhausen and come back to tell us of your experience...
I think the situation with the buses is a bit unsatisfactory - people instinctively give way to them but the drivers know that they don't really have the right of way, whereas some drivers think the DO have right of way and enforce that. Since it is public transport and it's a dozen people in a bus versus one or two in a car, the buses should have right of way and this should be communicated clearly to everyone who drives. Sometimes I wonder why we don't get a sort of "annual update" from the Strassenverkehrsamt, they do have our addresses. Especially older drivers seem unaware of some basic rules.
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Old 10.02.2012, 10:50
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Re: Idiots who walk in front of trams and buses

I'm just curious about the law. If some nob-head idiot jumps out immediately in front of you (like 10 feet ahead) while you are driving in Zurich... playing some stupid adolescent game... are you obliged to attempt an emergency stop ? potentially causing damage to your vehicle or others etc. or is it okay to mash the idiot in this case to prevent a worse scenario ? -
I suspect that you are probably expected to hit the brake whatever the outcome, but personally I'd have no qualms about mashing them if it was too late to safely do an emergency stop... and I suspect that others may feel the same....
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  #30  
Old 10.02.2012, 11:09
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Re: Idiots who walk in front of trams and buses

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I suspect that you are probably expected to hit the brake whatever the outcome, but personally I'd have no qualms about mashing them if it was too late to safely do an emergency stop... and I suspect that others may feel the same....
...and live with a horrible guilt for the rest of your life knowing that you've "mashed" someone?

No thank you.
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  #31  
Old 10.02.2012, 11:10
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Re: Idiots who walk in front of trams and buses

Of course you should try to stop, but my options were strictly limited to almost straight ahead and hope... or hit the tram. This idiot gave me little chance as he jumped our in the couple or 3m that was the distance between me and the car in front. Maybe that's why the driver of the car behind me was giving then chumps what for... as maybe he nearly tail ended me. Crazy behaviour especially in these temps, when the potential for skid is heightened.

I did ask the police if there were CCTV cameras at that point which could be checked, as these guys had caused 1 incident and maybe the could track/catch them from that., but they didn't seem overly bothered TBH.
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  #32  
Old 10.02.2012, 11:12
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Re: Idiots who walk in front of trams and buses

The road code says you should drive at a speed that befits the situation, so if you can't see the idiot messing around on the side of the road and don't think to slow down a bit to allow for said idiots jumping in front of the car and THEN are unable to stop on time - it's your fault. So the correct answer is slamming the brakes. If the person behind you hits your car, then THEY are also at fault as they should keep sufficient distance to avoid hitting you in the event of an emergency stop. Of course, if this happens on the open road, then I doubt you'd get the same treatment as you would for hitting someone on a pedestrian crossing.
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Old 10.02.2012, 11:15
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Re: Idiots who walk in front of trams and buses

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I'm just curious about the law. If some nob-head idiot jumps out immediately in front of you (like 10 feet ahead) while you are driving in Zurich... playing some stupid adolescent game... are you obliged to attempt an emergency stop ? potentially causing damage to your vehicle or others etc. or is it okay to mash the idiot in this case to prevent a worse scenario ? -
I suspect that you are probably expected to hit the brake whatever the outcome, but personally I'd have no qualms about mashing them if it was too late to safely do an emergency stop... and I suspect that others may feel the same....
Yes I would imagine you would be obliged to do an emergency stop. But it matters little. Your instinct would make you hit the brakes anyway, the ABS would have cut in, and the car will have stopped well before the idea of "mashing" them ever entered your head.
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  #34  
Old 10.02.2012, 14:47
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Re: Idiots who walk in front of trams and buses

- I'd feel no guilt mashing some non-head, in fact, I'd probably be doing the world a favor...
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  #35  
Old 10.02.2012, 14:52
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Re: Idiots who walk in front of trams and buses

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Buses don't. Trams do.
Perhaps legally not (I'm way to lazy to read up some Germans written laws), but I take a bus for almost an hour across zurich each day, and the bus drivers always take the right of way. The pedestrians seem to always accept this. In almost every situation I've seen (unless perhaps the bus is a bit ahead of schedule), the bus will not stop if someone is waiting at zebra stripes, if the person has started crossing on the otherside, they will be forced to wait in the middle median for the bus to cross.
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Old 10.02.2012, 15:00
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Re: Idiots who walk in front of trams and buses

In Geneva i was in the car once and some idiot cyclist decided to ignore the red light and cross the street as the cars were coming. No helmet of course and headphones.

Thankfully nothing happened but who would be to blame if the guy was actually hit?

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Perhaps legally not (I'm way to lazy to read up some Germans written laws), but I take a bus for almost an hour across zurich each day, and the bus drivers always take the right of way. The pedestrians seem to always accept this. In almost every situation I've seen (unless perhaps the bus is a bit ahead of schedule), the bus will not stop if someone is waiting at zebra stripes, if the person has started crossing on the otherside, they will be forced to wait in the middle median for the bus to cross.
When in pedestrian crossing and a bus approaches, i always stop and let the driver decide if he will stop or not. Its around 50-50. Getting to the other side of the street 2 seconds later is much preferable than picking myself up from under a bus.
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Old 10.02.2012, 15:20
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Re: Idiots who walk in front of trams and buses

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try claiming your right of way versus a postbus in schaffhausen and come back to tell us of your experience...
I'm well aware that quite a few public bus drivers ignore the right of way at pedestrian crossings but that doesn't change the law.

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I think the situation with the buses is a bit unsatisfactory - people instinctively give way to them but the drivers know that they don't really have the right of way, whereas some drivers think the DO have right of way and enforce that. Since it is public transport and it's a dozen people in a bus versus one or two in a car, the buses should have right of way and this should be communicated clearly to everyone who drives.
Your idea may sound fine but it's quite impractical.
So, public buses should have the right of way. Fine. What's with chartered coaches full of tourists or a sports club? The many vs. few people argument would work here as well, wouldn't it?
And then there's the minibuses with 15 seats or so. Should they get the right of way too? Where should we draw the line?
And how on earth should a pedestrian know whether the bus approaching the crossing does have the right of way or not?

Sorry, but I think your suggestion would lead to endless confusion and many dangerous situations or even accidents. The situation at pedestrian crossings is demanding enough with today's dense traffic. No need to add another level of complexity.
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  #38  
Old 10.02.2012, 15:28
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Re: Idiots who walk in front of trams and buses

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I'm well aware that quite a few public bus drivers ignore the right of way at pedestrian crossings but that doesn't change the law.


Your idea may sound fine but it's quite impractical.
So, public buses should have the right of way. Fine. What's with chartered coaches full of tourists or a sports club? The many vs. few people argument would work here as well, wouldn't it?
And then there's the minibuses with 15 seats or so. Should they get the right of way too? Where should we draw the line?
And how on earth should a pedestrian know whether the bus approaching the crossing does have the right of way or not?

Sorry, but I think your suggestion would lead to endless confusion and many dangerous situations or even accidents. The situation at pedestrian crossings is demanding enough with today's dense traffic. No need to add another level of complexity.

Do buses have the right-of-way over other motor-vehicles?
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Old 10.02.2012, 16:12
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Re: Idiots who walk in front of trams and buses

I think the right of way should go to the vehicle that can do the most damage
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Old 10.02.2012, 17:54
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Re: Idiots who walk in front of trams and buses

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I think the right of way should go to the vehicle that can do the most damage
OK.. so that establishes Italians have the right of way then

Last edited by Papa Goose; 10.02.2012 at 19:36.
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