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  #101  
Old 28.02.2012, 18:40
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Re: Bad behaviour on trip to Lugano

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I
Lack of authority in schools has resulted in poorly behaved ill disciplined adults with poor values.
How to behave in public isn't the responsibility of the state, it's the job of your parents. Dumping that responsibility off on schools and assuming they'll take care of it for you is exactly why you have poorly disciplined children to begin with since that's not their job. That's the attitude of someone who thinks of schools as a substitute parent or babysitter instead of a place to learn. The problem is parents wanting to be their children's best friend and not their parent.
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  #102  
Old 28.02.2012, 18:51
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Re: Bad behaviour on trip to Lugano

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How to behave in public isn't the responsibility of the state, it's the job of your parents. Dumping that responsibility off on schools and assuming they'll take care of it for you is exactly why you have poorly disciplined children to begin with since that's not their job. That's the attitude of someone who thinks of schools as a substitute parent or babysitter instead of a place to learn. The problem is parents wanting to be their children's best friend and not their parent.
Hmm, I always feel silly when I miss the point, but perhaps I wasn't clear. So I'll explain it further for you as not sure what your on about.

Schools could once shout, discipline, even cane a poorly behaved child. Now a teacher can be prosecuted for all sorts for reacting to any sort of verbal or physical abuse. Parents were aided by this.

Now, kids get away with too much, and their parents support them instead of correcting them.

Teachers along with parents should be able to discipline children, and when both did, children grew up with better values. Well that's evident in my experience anyhow.
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  #103  
Old 28.02.2012, 18:53
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Re: Bad behaviour on trip to Lugano

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Lack of authority in schools has resulted in poorly behaved ill disciplined adults with poor values.
It goes both ways. Authority in schools depends on one side on the interpretation of pedagogical research at a given moment in a given culture, on the other side on the authority parents let the school have. You rightly think of the first (as far as I understand) and I just add the second.

Schools in some countries have no chance against a complaining parent. The burden of the proof falls on the teachers (some would say rightly so, fair enough), that means that we have to let the situation rotten long enough to have the evidence strong enough to have a case. Parents and school communication tends to glide towards more and more juridical confrontation rhetorics instead of keeping it pedagogical and social (the education/socialization distinction made above).

On top of that, there is the old dispute who is responsible for which part of the education and socialization. Students fall sometimes into an educational no-man's land in-between family and institutions.
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  #104  
Old 28.02.2012, 19:09
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Re: Bad behaviour on trip to Lugano

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How to behave in public isn't the responsibility of the state, it's the job of your parents. Dumping that responsibility off on schools and assuming they'll take care of it for you is exactly why you have poorly disciplined children to begin with since that's not their job. That's the attitude of someone who thinks of schools as a substitute parent or babysitter instead of a place to learn. The problem is parents wanting to be their children's best friend and not their parent.
I could not have put it any better. Completly agree.
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  #105  
Old 28.02.2012, 19:13
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Re: Bad behaviour on trip to Lugano

From the sublime to the flipping ridiculous, as for so many things. I've never ever approved of physical punishment in schools- but now a teacher can't tell a kid off or give detention without many parents threatening to beat him/her up or suing. Children need to know their limits and are much happier and comfortable when they do. Sadly, the kids who do suffer the most are not those badly behaved who disturb lesson after lesson, but the quiet and often less bright children who fall through the net too often, as their educational needs are not addressed due to constant disturbance. Tragic as they are the majority whose education gets wrecked by the few.
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  #106  
Old 28.02.2012, 19:29
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Re: Bad behaviour on trip to Lugano

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From the sublime to the flipping ridiculous, as for so many things. I've never ever approved of physical punishment in schools- but now a teacher can't tell a kid off or give detention without many parents threatening to beat him/her up or suing. Children need to know their limits and are much happier and comfortable when they do. Sadly, the kids who do suffer the most are not those badly behaved who disturb lesson after lesson, but the quiet and often less bright children who fall through the net too often, as their educational needs are not addressed due to constant disturbance. Tragic as they are the majority whose education gets wrecked by the few.
So you got the point! YAY
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  #107  
Old 28.02.2012, 19:39
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Re: Bad behaviour on trip to Lugano

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From the sublime to the flipping ridiculous, as for so many things. I've never ever approved of physical punishment in schools- but now a teacher can't tell a kid off or give detention without many parents threatening to beat him/her up or suing. Children need to know their limits and are much happier and comfortable when they do. Sadly, the kids who do suffer the most are not those badly behaved who disturb lesson after lesson, but the quiet and often less bright children who fall through the net too often, as their educational needs are not addressed due to constant disturbance. Tragic as they are the majority whose education gets wrecked by the few.
in my experience, it is usually the most gifted kids who are the most "disruptive" in the typical public school class setting.
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  #108  
Old 28.02.2012, 19:42
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Re: Bad behaviour on trip to Lugano

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llegal huh! Go figure. Not here its not, and not in the UK. Which countries?
These ones:
http://www.endcorporalpunishment.org...ib_states.html

UK and CH are here:
http://www.endcorporalpunishment.org...entralAsia.pdf

Note the reasons for exclusion in the home. You'll note they don't say anything about "it's the best way to educate/discipline a child, so we're keeping smacking".

Ignorance is bliss? Damn, I wish you'd see the irony.
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  #109  
Old 28.02.2012, 19:44
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Re: Bad behaviour on trip to Lugano

Children are like dogs. You need to ensure they have well defined boundaries, know who the "pack leader" is, don't shit on the floor and don't climb all over the furniture. If that fails, then use a choke chain.
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  #110  
Old 28.02.2012, 19:46
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Re: Bad behaviour on trip to Lugano

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Children are like dogs. You need to ensure they have well defined boundaries, know who the "pack leader" is, don't shit on the floor and don't climb all over the furniture. If that fails, then use a choke chain.
Lol - I'm not sure who you're quoting here - JordanBarrZurich86, or Ceasar Milan? (Dog Whisperer)

(thanked for the joke, in case any of the Daily Mailers are reading)
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  #111  
Old 28.02.2012, 19:57
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Re: Bad behaviour on trip to Lugano

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The problem is parents wanting to be their children's best friend and not their parent.
This reminds me of one of the most creepy experiences I've ever had. Not long after I had my daughter, I was tiredly wandering through a grocery store trying to stay upright and awake, with her in her carseat set in the shopping cart. I was idly talking to her, as mothers who spend all day with an infant will since, well, it's all you have at times. I was trying to choose which bread to buy and a woman came up to me and started exclaiming the joys of motherhood, the importance of motherhood, etc., etc., which I was able to sort of nod and smile my way through until she grabbed her pre-teen daughter next to her and nearly shouted how they were the best friends EVAH. I smiled but just had no idea what to say in polite, random conversation. She grabbed her daughter and moved on down the aisle, but the weirdness never really left me.

It was really creepy and I agree that you can be a friend to your child, you're a better friend by being a parent first. The only people you can rely upon in this life when the chips are down and/or you need a boot in the arse are your parents/family since friends can be mercurial.
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  #112  
Old 28.02.2012, 19:59
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Re: Bad behaviour on trip to Lugano

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Children are like dogs. You need to ensure they have well defined boundaries, know who the "pack leader" is, don't shit on the floor and don't climb all over the furniture. If that fails, then use a choke chain.
What happens when you have one who thinks the choke chain is a laugh riot?
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  #113  
Old 28.02.2012, 20:02
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Re: Bad behaviour on trip to Lugano

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These ones:
http://www.endcorporalpunishment.org...ib_states.html

UK and CH are here:
http://www.endcorporalpunishment.org...entralAsia.pdf

Note the reasons for exclusion in the home. You'll note they don't say anything about "it's the best way to educate/discipline a child, so we're keeping smacking".

Ignorance is bliss? Damn, I wish you'd see the irony.
Clues in the opening quote. Begins with B. So, irrelevant.

Irony? The only irony I see is your failure to see why you cant control your child.

The quotes seemingly change with each refresh or opening of page, you perhaps therefore did not see it.

Last edited by JBZ86; 28.02.2012 at 20:04. Reason: Changing quotes
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  #114  
Old 28.02.2012, 20:16
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Re: Bad behaviour on trip to Lugano

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Clues in the opening quote. Begins with B. So, irrelevant.

Irony? The only irony I see is your failure to see why you cant control your child.

The quotes seemingly change with each refresh or opening of page, you perhaps therefore did not see it.
No...but I think I see now how you managed to accumulate so many groans now...
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  #115  
Old 28.02.2012, 20:26
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Re: Bad behaviour on trip to Lugano

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No...but I think I see now how you managed to accumulate so many groans now...
Fo pointing out what you don't want to hear?? Probably a large factor in much of what has been discussed on this thread for a large number of parents I'm afraid.
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  #116  
Old 28.02.2012, 20:31
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Re: Bad behaviour on trip to Lugano

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Fo pointing out what you don't want to hear?? Probably a large factor in much of what has been discussed on this thread for a large number of parents I'm afraid.
When finishing with quips like this, it's traditional to sign off with:

"Pah, humbug!"
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  #117  
Old 28.02.2012, 20:41
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Re: Bad behaviour on trip to Lugano

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When finishing with quips like this, it's traditional to sign off with:

"Pah, humbug!"
But why?

I am not stating anything that, to my mind, is not pretty obvious. I am no Scrooge, too young i think, to possibly fall into that category.

People seem to read a comment and take it at it's extreme, as if I am suggesting you whip your child into submission. I am not saying this, merely that the wrapped in cotton wool approach which is common place these days can be equally damaging in a childs upbringing.

A little smack, when required, can do wonders as opposed to ignorant bliss that the child is just that and they know no better, or will not understand it. Of course they understand.
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  #118  
Old 28.02.2012, 21:15
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Re: Bad behaviour on trip to Lugano

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But why?

I am not stating anything that, to my mind, is not pretty obvious. I am no Scrooge, too young i think, to possibly fall into that category.

People seem to read a comment and take it at it's extreme, as if I am suggesting you whip your child into submission. I am not saying this, merely that the wrapped in cotton wool approach which is common place these days can be equally damaging in a childs upbringing.

A little smack, when required, can do wonders as opposed to ignorant bliss that the child is just that and they know no better, or will not understand it. Of course they understand.
how many kids are you raising?
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  #119  
Old 28.02.2012, 21:24
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Re: Bad behaviour on trip to Lugano

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how many kids are you raising?
Don't even try that bs line
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  #120  
Old 28.02.2012, 21:28
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Re: Bad behaviour on trip to Lugano

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Don't even try that bs line
it's just a question, just curious.

btw, I have 3, one of them is downstairs playing various GnR and Foo Fighters songs on his guitar at volume level 11. absolutely glorious.
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