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  #181  
Old 21.03.2012, 08:52
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Re: A Lunch Place Not Open AT LUNCH!!!!!!

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Or, as the receptionist at my doctor's office once said to me:

"There is a three month wait for an appointment; one should schedule one's illnesses accordingly."

3 months? I guess that was something very specialised? (No details are being requested!)

Point taken, and I hope that the receptionist at least said it with a smile. But coming from the UK I can't moan too much about waiting for NHS medical treatment. Things have got better in recent times, I'm told, but my mother in law once received a hospital appointment for a minor op that was more than 2 years in the future
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  #182  
Old 21.03.2012, 08:57
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Re: A Lunch Place Not Open AT LUNCH!!!!!!

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Yeah, in ZH maybe, however in other parts of Switzerland you are forced to go to the emergency room for something banal as cough syrup because none of them are open. A very advanced place I tell ya...must be the high quality of life people keep talking about. Mind you, I can get cought syrup at most gas stations of third world countries, however here in this kingdom of bliss and pink shades, one is only able to purchase cough syrup from a pharmacy, because no other entity other than a pharmacy is allowed to sell you pharmaceuticals (except doctors and hospitals).
Lugano, Bellinzona, Locarno as well.

Alas, not at doctors or hospitals here, not permitted!

Tom
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  #183  
Old 21.03.2012, 09:36
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Re: A Lunch Place Not Open AT LUNCH!!!!!!

What I don't understand is the shops I see that seem to be in the middle of a back street and only open for 3 or so hours a day - I know its probably a mum who spends the rest of her day with her children so that part makes sense - from a family if not business sense (not bakers or food shops but "home" things etc)

Its more the location that I don't get - why open in an area where there is next to no passing foot traffic to be able to come in a look around? They don't seem to advertise and no one ever seems to be in them so I just wonder how they make enough money to work given the rents are high here? Just asking as I would love to do something when the kids are in school but being from the UK opening a shop where the location / customers don't appear to be doesn't seem logical
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  #184  
Old 21.03.2012, 09:46
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Re: A Lunch Place Not Open AT LUNCH!!!!!!

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Either do something about it, like agitate for change through the democratic system -- or accept that this is the way they do things here, and organise your life to take it into account.

A simple example of how to do this -- whenever I'm back in the UK or in Germany, I buy a few basic medicines and stash them here. I probably have enough to open a small pharmacy of my own. It seemed like the obvious solution.

Would I prefer to be able to buy cough medicine at a gas station here? Um, yeah, I guess so -- I hadn't really thought about it. What I did was what most people do -- I discovered the ups and downs of daily Swiss life, and made arrangements to deal with it. No crisis, no chest-beating and weeping on internet forums.

With the appalling lunchtime sandwich crisis discussed over so many pages, well, after many months of analysis, employing the best brains I could gather from a number of leading universities, I came up with the solution -- I buy my sandwich when the shop is open rather than wail about the times it is not open.

Sometimes the simple answers are the best.
I understand your point but I don't feel that (potential) customers have to adapt and organize themselves around shop opening hours. It should be vice versa. Already now, over 40% of retail revenue is generated past 4pm and should clearly be an indicator to store owners to prolong their opening hours. For instance, on Toronto's Yong street (Quick uesless fact: the longest street in the world) shops are open until midnight-1am. However, they start opening at 10am. Why can't this implemented in Switzerland still baffles me as it seemed highly feasible to have open shops when people are actually off work.
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  #185  
Old 21.03.2012, 09:49
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Re: A Lunch Place Not Open AT LUNCH!!!!!!

Argument about lunch is still ongoing. Packed my own lunchbox just in case... You never know
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  #186  
Old 21.03.2012, 10:12
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Re: A Lunch Place Not Open AT LUNCH!!!!!!

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I understand your point but I don't feel that (potential) customers have to adapt and organize themselves around shop opening hours. It should be vice versa. Already now, over 40% of retail revenue is generated past 4pm and should clearly be an indicator to store owners to prolong their opening hours. For instance, on Toronto's Yong street (Quick uesless fact: the longest street in the world) shops are open until midnight-1am. However, they start opening at 10am. Why can't this implemented in Switzerland still baffles me as it seemed highly feasible to have open shops when people are actually off work.
But that's exactly it - this is Switzerland and not US (or Canada - or UK for that matter).

Many small convenience type shops open at, or just after, 6.00 am, because that is when many customers are already on the move and need to get their daily requisites before work (sandwiches included).

Twelve, or so hours later most people are already at home and thinking about soon settling down to bed, so they can be up in time in the morning for when the shops open up again.

This is going to be different for those living in ex-pat havens where a more multi-national approach may be adopted.

It will also probably slowly change in the provinces, too, with more immigration dictating customer trends.

.... and to the relief of many women, men will have to accompany them shopping in the evenings, instead of having an early night.
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  #187  
Old 21.03.2012, 10:42
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Re: A Lunch Place Not Open AT LUNCH!!!!!!

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  #188  
Old 21.03.2012, 10:53
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Re: A Lunch Place Not Open AT LUNCH!!!!!!

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I understand your point but I don't feel that (potential) customers have to adapt and organize themselves around shop opening hours. It should be vice versa. Already now, over 40% of retail revenue is generated past 4pm and should clearly be an indicator to store owners to prolong their opening hours. For instance, on Toronto's Yong street (Quick uesless fact: the longest street in the world) shops are open until midnight-1am. However, they start opening at 10am. Why can't this implemented in Switzerland still baffles me as it seemed highly feasible to have open shops when people are actually off work.

I think this is where there is something of a "disconnect". It seems "most Swiss" folk are a lot less interested in more money than they are in quality of life. They neither want to work nor want their friends and family to work the sorts of hours that will allow for such shop opening times.

Right now it is an idea of choice, once it happens though, the level of choice diminishes greatly. Once you have shops open that late, you have to staff them and someone has to work those hours.


As the inevitable comparison has already come up, there are diverse opinions about this in the US as well. Some of the retail "powers that be" have put a fix to the problem by being open 24hrs but I recall people being upset at our opening times when I worked in a mall, that they'd have preferred to get things done before 10am. One of the locations I worked also was in a "strip mall" with an 8am opening and I remember seeing retirees sitting in their car waiting for us to open when I arrived to start opening processes at 7am.

So, some folks are early birds, I love grocery shopping prior to 10am, prior to 8 even if I can, and some folks are not, preferring things to be open late.


This thing with shops being closed for lunch at lunch time is a bit goofy to me too, not to the point of complaint though as typically, within a couple of blocks there tends to be someplace that is open. I remember having to stagger our lunches at work to ensure that there was coverage, but that's a lot easier to do with a staff of 20 than the typical "mom and pop bakery" staff situation.
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  #189  
Old 21.03.2012, 11:25
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Re: A Lunch Place Not Open AT LUNCH!!!!!!

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3 months? I guess that was something very specialised? (No details are being requested!)

Point taken, and I hope that the receptionist at least said it with a smile. But coming from the UK I can't moan too much about waiting for NHS medical treatment. Things have got better in recent times, I'm told, but my mother in law once received a hospital appointment for a minor op that was more than 2 years in the future
Nope - the local GP. The practice is open 9 days a month, about 9 months of the year. And it's the only area GP practice accepting new patients.

And not said with a smile - with a distainful sniff, I'm afraid. But that was probably directed as much at my Hochdeutsch as at my scheduling faux pas.

But it is what it is (oh how I hate that phrase!) and I've learned to live according to the rules. For any acute illness, the Apotheke will sell you a sachet of alpine meadow weed tea or homeopathic fairy dust.

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Old 21.03.2012, 11:34
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Re: A Lunch Place Not Open AT LUNCH!!!!!!

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Yeah, in ZH maybe, however in other parts of Switzerland you are forced to go to the emergency room for something banal as cough syrup because none of them are open. A very advanced place I tell ya...must be the high quality of life people keep talking about. Mind you, I can get cought syrup at most gas stations of third world countries, however here in this kingdom of bliss and pink shades, one is only able to purchase cough syrup from a pharmacy, because no other entity other than a pharmacy is allowed to sell you pharmaceuticals (except doctors and hospitals).
And so? I can't buy cough syrup in a gas station in France, Portugal, and Italy as far as I remember. Here's a tip about cough syrup anyways...you can make your own.
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Old 21.03.2012, 11:38
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Re: A Lunch Place Not Open AT LUNCH!!!!!!

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And so? I can't buy cough syrup in a gas station in France, Portugal, and Italy as far as I remember. Here's a tip about cough syrup anyways...you can make your own.
That would enable me to give a f* if I'd live in France, Portugal, and Italy but since we're here, why not focus Switzerland, shall we?
For a place that boasts its standard of living and provides free BJs to Mercer on a yearly basis.....I should be able to purchase simple cough syrup after 6pm, shouldn't I?
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  #192  
Old 21.03.2012, 11:39
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Re: A Lunch Place Not Open AT LUNCH!!!!!!

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I think this is where there is something of a "disconnect". It seems "most Swiss" folk are a lot less interested in more money than they are in quality of life. They neither want to work nor want their friends and family to work the sorts of hours that will allow for such shop opening times.

If I recall correctly, the Greeks have a similar view point
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Old 21.03.2012, 11:41
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If I recall correctly, the Greeks have a similar view point
Not at all the same, what an exaggeration!

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That would enable me to give a f* if I'd live in France, Portugal, and Italy but since we're here, why not focus Switzerland, shall we?
For a place that boasts its standard of living and provides free BJs to Mercer on a yeary basis.....I should be able to purchase simple cough syrup after 6pm, shouldn't I?
Oh really, but you compared 3rd world nations and that WE ARE supposed to give a F* over?

You know what I do? I have this thing called a medicine cabinet. In it there are bandages, head ache medicine, burn cream, cough drops, cough syrup and so on. They are easy to find. In your bathroom above the sink normally. It's called planning a head. Just because you are planning your cold out doesn't mean the rest of our colds are planned out. That's why I, and alot of people plan in advance when possible.

Now I don't have anything in there that combats the Ebola virus, but the common things I do. I certainly wouldn't go to a gas station and cry up a storm if I was bleeding all over the place because I didn't have bandages on hand, why is cough syrup any different?

Another case of convenience over the thought out proper planning.

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  #194  
Old 21.03.2012, 11:51
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If I recall correctly, the Greeks have a similar view point
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Not at all the same, what an exaggeration!
Not at all the same right now, no, but if Switzerland keeps being so resistant to change what might happen in the future then??

If shop owners are refusing to adapt now, in good economic conditions, when there is a push from expat and young Swiss consumers for them to change a little, what might happen in bad economic conditions?

This thread is not just about this specific lunchtime shop, it's more a complaint on the general mentality...and yes, the Greeks had the same mentality in favourable economic conditions, and they have the same mentality now.

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Perhaps the complaints - no, complaint is far too strong a word, bemusement or befuddlement is more appropriate - stem from the fact that many folks, despite living here, don't have a chance to partake of the legendary Swiss 'family values' lifestyle.

Lots of folk here work 60, 80, 100 hour weeks. Many work schedules skewed to the Asian or US work day - or both. One is on-call 24/7, expected to be reachable and responsible at all times, holidays included. Many in these postions were brought here because the Swiss can't, or won't, take on the responsibility needed. Tough job, but somebody's gotta do it.

For those who work normal 40 hour weeks (or less, which actually seems to be the norm), for those who have someone else to take care of the details, the Swiss Way works just fine. But we don't all have the luxury of the idyllic slow Swiss pace - and for those in such circumstances, it can indeed be something of a struggle, especially when one is new here.

Most of us oldtimers have come to accept the things we cannot change, and have been here long enough to find alternatives. But a little empathy for the newbies wouldn't go amiss; when you are struggling to come to grips with a society where you are a square peg in a round hole, finding that what you thought was a lunch place is closed over lunch - or that there is no brown sugar - is just one of those 'Switzerlanded!' moments. We've all had 'em.

Eventually one learns to laugh, and finds the kebab stand around the corner.
That is such a good point. As a relative newbie, it is hard at first to swallow some of these arguments especially because you know things could be easier.

I also believe that there is a large number of people out there who would welcome being able to work at a grocery store in the evenings - for example, if they're taking German classes during the day and so can't work during the usual opening times. If some Swiss want to enjoy time with their family, that's fine, but there are many unemployed & relatively unskilled foreign people here who can take over their shifts!
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  #195  
Old 21.03.2012, 12:11
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Re: A Lunch Place Not Open AT LUNCH!!!!!!

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Oh really, but you compared 3rd world nations and that WE ARE supposed to give a F* over?

You know what I do? I have this thing called a medicine cabinet. In it there are bandages, head ache medicine, burn cream, cough drops, cough syrup and so on. They are easy to find. In your bathroom above the sink normally. It's called planning a head. Just because you are planning your cold out doesn't mean the rest of our colds are planned out. That's why I, and alot of people plan in advance when possible.

Now I don't have anything in there that combats the Ebola virus, but the common things I do. I certainly wouldn't go to a gas station and cry up a storm if I was bleeding all over the place because I didn't have bandages on hand, why is cough syrup any different?

Another case of convenience over the thought out proper planning.
Hooray for you sweetheart! Yeah, you and your medicine cabinet are the perfect match... Nah seriously, why on earth would I purchase a plethora of various medicines for the "just in case" moment? I bet you anything, if you look in your awesome medicine cabinet, that you'll find expired medicine...and then when you actually need the medicine, you will have to go back to the pharmacy when it's probably closed and you'll remember this thread.


...and by the way, you can purchase bandages from gas stations here.
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Old 21.03.2012, 12:11
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Re: A Lunch Place Not Open AT LUNCH!!!!!!

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Not at all the same right now, no, but if Switzerland keeps being so resistant to change what might happen in the future then??

If shop owners are refusing to adapt now, in good economic conditions, when there is a push from expat and young Swiss consumers for them to change a little, what might happen in bad economic conditions?

This thread is not just about this specific lunchtime shop, it's more a complaint on the general mentality...and yes, the Greeks had the same mentality in favourable economic conditions, and they have the same mentality now.
The Greeks system, and the fact they have continuously default debt for decades now has NOTHING to do with how the Swiss view their own system of debt, and how they want others to view them within their own society. Anyone I have met that is Swiss seems very embarrassed to hold any kind of debt. Switzerland is in a much different place.

I think Switzerland has really adapted by recognizing that their birth rates were low, and could not keep up with the potential labor force demands, and started pumping out all these visas to allow us to come over here and complain about their way of life. It is a big change in immigration policy, one that will effect their culture, and yet people aren't happy about the way Switzerland isn't like it is in their home countries.

But that isn't an economic change you want to discuss. You only want to demand the Swiss change their customs and way of life to match a country you left, that quite possibly could be behind the Swiss currently in it's un employment rate.

The Swiss constantly re invest in in infrastructure, something the US missed the opportunity on in this last huge crisis. The Swiss constantly invest in their home protection by way of the mandatory military service and civil guard. And I think they take very seriously who they borrow money to, and come after them very aggressively when they default on their loans. Imagine a world if the rest of the planet would be like that.
Only the most serious of people trying to take on opening a business?

I don't see any similarities. And this thread is about the guy's sandwich. Otherwise I would expect the title not to be what it is. But if that is your case. I tell you what. You want some change?

Change comes from within.

You want to fix something here that is not like your Utopian country you came from, maybe you would find more solace returning home, making your original home to be perfect, so that you would either want to stay there, or come back here with your perfect society in hand showing the Swiss people the way. I think if the Swiss are happy with Swiss life, then it should be the Swiss that make that change. Just because there are something like 26% of the population that is foreign doesn't equal all Americans or Brits. There are a lot of cultures arriving here with even far stricter codes of community that probably think the Swiss are too liberal in their business hours. What is progress to some of you is the opposite for others.
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Old 21.03.2012, 12:11
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Re: A Lunch Place Not Open AT LUNCH!!!!!!

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Not at all the same right now, no, but if Switzerland keeps being so resistant to change what might happen in the future then??

If shop owners are refusing to adapt now, in good economic conditions, when there is a push from expat and young Swiss consumers for them to change a little, what might happen in bad economic conditions?

This thread is not just about this specific lunchtime shop, it's more a complaint on the general mentality...and yes, the Greeks had the same mentality in favourable economic conditions, and they have the same mentality now.
The young Swissies will do it, I think. It takes longer here for new ideas to be adopted, but when enough of the old guard move on and the new blood moves through who have been exposed to other attitudes and ways of life then they will develop a new balance. Something between what us invaders would like, and what is currently here. Hopefully, IMO, opening at lunch, but keeping Sundays as a rest day!
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Old 21.03.2012, 12:15
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Hooray for you sweetheart! Yeah, you and your medicine cabinet are the perfect match... Nah seriously, why on earth would I purchase a plethora of various medicines for the "just in case" moment? I bet you anything, if you look in your awesome medicine cabinet, that you'll find expired medicine...and then when you actually need the medicine, you will have to go back to the pharmacy when it's probably closed and you'll remember this thread.


...and by the way, you can purchase bandages from gas stations here.
I check my medicine cabinet every 6 months and toss out the expired medicine. I rather throw out medicine I don't need, in preference to not being at all, then to being sick, and waiting until the next day in my sick state.

Do you want to kiss me or something? Why don't you just come out and say it instead of all the flirting? Atleast your bloody bandage scene at the gas station will be a cynically happy one.

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The young Swissies will do it, I think. It takes longer here for new ideas to be adopted, but when enough of the old guard move on and the new blood moves through who have been exposed to other attitudes and ways of life then they will develop a new balance. Something between what us invaders would like, and what is currently here. Hopefully, IMO, opening at lunch, but keeping Sundays as a rest day!
Ideas like legalized prostitution, cannabis, and suicide clinics? Yeah they are WAY behind the rest of us.

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Old 21.03.2012, 12:23
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Re: A Lunch Place Not Open AT LUNCH!!!!!!

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I check my medicine cabinet every 6 months and toss out the expired medicine.
That's friggin awesome man!
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Do you want to kiss me or something? Why don't you just come out and say it instead of all the flirting? Atleast your bloody bandage scene at the gas station will be a cynically happy one.
Nah, I got strandards...sorry.
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Old 21.03.2012, 12:26
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Re: A Lunch Place Not Open AT LUNCH!!!!!!

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That's friggin awesome man!
You know I have kids. I don't tell my son when he has a sore throat and it's a Saturday night "Well son, the way we do the things in the US...."

Last edited by MusicChick; 21.03.2012 at 14:34. Reason: fixed quote
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