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Old 19.03.2012, 14:48
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Re: Transport system annoyed me big time!

I know several people who've been shot with rubber bullets after accidentally ending up in the football crowd here. It's an unfortunate part of the scene here, but it's not particularly ZVV's fault - it could have happened anywhere in the city.

The SBB/ZVV were well within their rights too book you, BUT going off other peoples' stories here they do seem quite ready to take extenuating circumstances into account if you appeal.

There's certainly no guarantees, but given how many people on here have reported their fines being reduced, you've got a fair chance.

Get the appeal sent off straight away, with the photos if you like, and try and keep it to the point and as un-ranty as possible. Let us know how it goes.
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Old 19.03.2012, 14:51
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Re: Transport system annoyed me big time!

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The Swiss are complete bar stewards. Switzerland should be bombed for such extreme measure when dealing with fare-dodgers - whatever their excuse.

I blame the auslaenders, the church bells, short opening hours of shops and err people driving too close on motorways.

Did I miss anything?


Brown sugar. No wait you didnt miss it. It doesnt exist here...
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  #63  
Old 19.03.2012, 14:52
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Re: Transport system annoyed me big time!

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You thought I was a journalist too huh?
no, I was fairly certain from your first post you were not a journalist. In my experience journalists are careful with their words and your telling us that you are "an ex BBC employee currently working in the city of London" has absolutely no bearing on the remainder of your story.

I was merely making a side comment to another EF member.

What I personally think of you has no bearing on this conversation and I'm sure none to you.

cheerio,
  #64  
Old 19.03.2012, 14:53
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Re: Transport system annoyed me big time!

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From going through the responses I think the problem is not trying to understand the problem at hand rather than attacking whoever has a bad experience in Zurich and twisting it around in a way that it's them who had the problem.

I know you guys love your city and consider it a nice place to live and all that, so it's perfectly understandable you'd be upset with anyone writing negative things about it.
Actually, I live in Basel. I wouldn't move to Zurich unless I really had to. If you did any research you'd know we "Baslers" don't like Zurich. But, you know, facts, eh? Who needs 'em.

But back to your travel, clearly this would never have happened in Basel - much better place that Zurich. I guess choosing the wrong destination was your first mistake.
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Old 19.03.2012, 14:54
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Re: Transport system annoyed me big time!

The ticket machines in Basel are very, very easy to use - either at the SBB or for the local public transport.

Are the Zurich ones not as good? Anyone used both?
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Old 19.03.2012, 14:56
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Re: Transport system annoyed me big time!

A Londoner complaining about the transport system in Switzerland.... I have now seen it all Thanks for making my day
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  #67  
Old 19.03.2012, 14:58
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Re: Transport system annoyed me big time!

Meh. Had far worse experiences in the UK. Worst was about 5-6 years ago when some horrible middle aged woman complaining about my not having a ticket (thought you could still buy on board, which is what I had done a few months earlier). OK fair enough, didn't have a ticket. But referring to me as a '' several times in front of daughter? I'm still annoyed I did not fiel a formal complaint.

So far not had any bad experiences to rival Germany, France or (the worst) the UK. Heard a few, but as for the OP's complaint, sorry no real sympathy.
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Old 19.03.2012, 14:58
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Re: Transport system annoyed me big time!

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The ticket machines in Basel are very, very easy to use - either at the SBB or for the local public transport.

Are the Zurich ones not as good? Anyone used both?
I have never had a problem with them, so they can't be that difficult
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  #69  
Old 19.03.2012, 15:00
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Re: Transport system annoyed me big time!

OP, you have put much into explaining yourself here, where no one has the ability to adjust your fine or make any changes regarding the problems you perceive within the public transport system.

Pen a letter, detail your circumstances, try to get a reduction of the fine. No one overseeing the public transport system can know of your issues unless you make them known.

Just as it seems to you that people are responding in a defensive manner to your complaint, understand that it sounds like you may be taking the whole situation very personally as well.

It sounds like you were at the wrong place (station) at the wrong time with a bunch of out-of-control people. Unfortunate, but not inconceivable, in Switzerland or in any other country.

If it is wholesale systemwide change that you are gunning for, I would not hold my breath if I were you; however some suggestions as to signage and more widely available credit card machines, etc. cannot go amiss.

Sorry that you had a bad experience.
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Old 19.03.2012, 15:01
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Re: Transport system annoyed me big time!

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Actually, I live in Basel. I wouldn't move to Zurich unless I really had to. If you did any research you'd know we "Baslers" don't like Zurich. But, you know, facts, eh? Who needs 'em.

But back to your travel, clearly this would never have happened in Basel - much better place that Zurich. I guess choosing the wrong destination was your first mistake.
Switzerland needs Zurich because that where most of the cash comes from!
  #71  
Old 19.03.2012, 15:03
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Re: Transport system annoyed me big time!

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The ticket machines in Basel are very, very easy to use - either at the SBB or for the local public transport.

Are the Zurich ones not as good? Anyone used both?
You mean used all three types? As every transport type has their own it seems, though they tend to kinda look a like.

Especially at train stations the ZVV ones are complemented with the SBB ones, which thus typically means there are double the amount of possibilities to buy a ticket.

I didn't find a big difference in the automats in Zurich or Basel or heck even Bern, Geneva, Lausanne and a myriad of other locations that I have been at.

Typically it is either an old one with hard-buttons that accepts coins + cards, some even taking bills or you get a new one with a spiffy touchscreen that accepts coins, cards and bills.

In Zurich they are gradually replacing them all with the touchscreen ones, but as there are people who apparently find it uber funny to stuff glue into the slots and destroy them in other ways, they are backlogged a bit in replacing them.

But in due time it will be fine and these people who just want to drive black with the excuse that they where being protected from a bunch of football hooligans won't have an excuse anymore...

(I am quite starting to wonder how one actually arrived at Altstetten without any coins or knowledge of the ticket automats
  #72  
Old 19.03.2012, 15:10
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Re: Transport system annoyed me big time!

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Why is it that so many people on here treat others as if they were in a court of law and were the prosecution?

Otherwise you can be the most correct people in the world, but rather sad and increasingly impoverished as other countries seek to improve the tourist experience rather than hammer rules down peoples throats. A bit more Herzlich would improve the Willkommen!
OP has my sympathy for being unlucky, that's part of life too, but I don't agree that he has been treated unfairly. You know it very well a Zürich train inspector has seen plenty of expats around, it is difficult to differentiate between tourists and residents. It's funny, you talked about some sort of exceptional situation (as in extenuating circumstances) and then wonder why people believe they are in a court of law.
Well, in a court of law they'll surely ask you why do you think your circumstances are special. That's all, nothing personal against OP.

About the Swiss being more welcoming with the tourists, I don't know, this is what they are.
  #73  
Old 19.03.2012, 15:19
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Re: Transport system annoyed me big time!

Wow, not a good experience. I thought the fine was $80 chf, must have gone up. I have been in a situation where I had to get on with no ticket but no ticket taker came along, as a matter of fact in three years living here, I've only been asked for my ticket about ten times... Bad luck on your bad experience
  #74  
Old 19.03.2012, 15:21
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Re: Transport system annoyed me big time!

The SBB worked long and hard in ensuring their machines were idiot proof. And then god came along and developed a bigger idiot.
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  #75  
Old 19.03.2012, 15:27
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Re: Transport system annoyed me big time!

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OP has my sympathy for being unlucky, that's part of life too, but I don't agree that he has been treated unfairly. You know it very well a Zürich train inspector has seen plenty of expats around, it is difficult to differentiate between tourists and residents. It's funny, you talked about some sort of exceptional situation (as in extenuating circumstances) and then wonder why people believe they are in a court of law.
Well, in a court of law they'll surely ask you why do you think your circumstances are special. That's all, nothing personal against OP.

About the Swiss being more welcoming with the tourists, I don't know, this is what they are.
If the original story here is true then no doubt the inspector would have been aware or could easily check that Altstetten was on police alert. There - extenuating circumstances.

As for the differentiating between lying expats and genuine tourists - they already have a system for that - whereby fines escalate and the crime increases in severity - i.e. they take down people's ID. If they are unable to train people to differentiate or insist on one rule for all then I'd make the first strike less severe (dare I say let someone off!) and hand out a copy of the terms & conditions, and then hammer folk mercilessly on the second strike onwards.
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  #76  
Old 19.03.2012, 15:28
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Re: Transport system annoyed me big time!

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About the Swiss being more welcoming with the tourists, I don't know, this is what they are.
Well, those who bring big enough wallets are very welcome here

Then again, these folks typically have somebody who buys tickets for them and if they didn't they simply pay without whining as they know they where wrong getting on a train without a ticket.


That said though, I had a funny incident once in Le Locle, of all places, where I was taking the last train back from in the direction of Zurich, I had cash, I had a card, I wanted to pay, but the stupid machine (they only have one there) was out of order, and there is no person there either to help you out.

Thus, when the train arrived I walked up to the driver of it who got out to smoke one, and asked him what to do. His answer, just get on the train and buy a ticket in Neuchatel. Thus I got on the train and soon after it left the ticket checkers who entered at the next stop, came, and lo and behold of course they wanted a ticket, logically, thus I explained that the machine was broken, it was the last train home and that I had asked the driver who had told me to just get on. The driver apparently swaps trains at the second stop though, thus he could not verify this anymore. I also showed that I had 50 CHF in cash to easily pay for the ticket back and also waved my (UBS) bankcard to show that I could have payed with that also, next to stating of having 3 friends at the station where I left who could state that I could not buy a ticket as it was broken, stating on top of that that on a track between Le Locle and Zurich one gets checked at least 3 times thus one needs a ticket to get there thus it being stupid to even attempt to try without one.

Anyway, the ticketer thus took a copy of the details of my halbtax and left. A week or what later I received the fine in the mail and I emailed the complaints corner about it with the full story, somewhat like written above, explaining them that I don't have a problem paying if I was really in the wrong, but that I was not, and it is their fault that I could not pay. They came back with a two-part answer: they where unable to check that the machine was faulty as it is not the SBB but of the local trainportion and that the driver was of the location train company and thus not employed to the SBB. At which I replied: I trusted the DRIVER of the train, how should I know who has authority or not and that he works for you directly or not? At this point they where 'next time, be sure to get a ticket in advance or contact the conductor before getting in' and I never heard back of it.

Note, that they where all friendly folks I communicated with, just that it is a freaky situation. They still accepted it though in the end.
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Old 19.03.2012, 15:32
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Re: Transport system annoyed me big time!

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but what I am TRULLY shocked by is the lack of common sense
Welcome to Switzerland!!! Please do NOT think outside the box, or you will be corrected!
  #78  
Old 19.03.2012, 15:33
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Re: Transport system annoyed me big time!

It is true that ticketing machines in Switzerland are not the easiest thing to understand or use and I agree that they should accept notes more frequently.
  #79  
Old 19.03.2012, 15:36
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Re: Transport system annoyed me big time!

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A Londoner complaining about the transport system in Switzerland.... I have now seen it all Thanks for making my day
Yes. And then says, regarding the police in Zürich:
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... Took a few photos, but then they started shouting at me and stopped.

They were seriously aggressive. Not like in England where they have to say "Oh hi sir! please walk this way for your security sir". In their case they were feral and quite eager to pick up a fight.
Frankly, with a comment like that, especially in conjunction with the recent flurry of ticket fine tales of woe, I doubt the veracity of the whole story.
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Old 19.03.2012, 15:38
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Re: Transport system annoyed me big time!

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Ex BBC Employee:

If you're looking for a job, the Local is hiring competent journalists.
Hey? I thought the Local only hired incompetent journalists - or at least that would explain the poor Local articles that get posted here...
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