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Old 19.03.2012, 15:59
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Re: Transport system annoyed me big time!

What would Jesus do when he decides to visit Zürich for a Weekend?

1. Get some Information:
http://www.zvv.ch/en/tickets/tickets...ces/index.html

2. If impossible to get a ticket:
Ask the bus or tram driver what to do. Stay near the driver in case Inspectors come along.
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  #82  
Old 19.03.2012, 16:00
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Re: Transport system annoyed me big time!

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You thought I was a journalist too huh?
I don't think anybody is under that illusion,it's quite evident that you are not a journalist, not even a BBC journalist as they all travel by taxi from what i understand
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Old 19.03.2012, 16:04
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Re: Transport system annoyed me big time!

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You thought I was a journalist too huh?
Not with the standard of your English
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Old 19.03.2012, 16:11
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Re: Transport system annoyed me big time!

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The ticket machines in Basel are very, very easy to use - either at the SBB or for the local public transport.

Are the Zurich ones not as good? Anyone used both?
About "Anyone used both?"

Yes, but not at the same time
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Old 19.03.2012, 16:22
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Re: Transport system annoyed me big time!

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athe transport system only who treated me unfairly and expected me to suck it.
How did they treat you unfairly?

Had they let you off, THAT would have been unfair, but treating you like any other person without a valid ticket is hardly unfair!

Tom
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Old 19.03.2012, 16:23
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Re: Transport system annoyed me big time!

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Are the Zurich ones not as good? Anyone used both?
I'm pretty sure that Zürich has more than two ticket machines. I saw two at Wipkingen alone, just the other day.
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Old 19.03.2012, 16:27
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Re: Transport system annoyed me big time!

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  #88  
Old 19.03.2012, 16:31
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Re: Transport system annoyed me big time!

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I'm pretty sure that Zürich has more than two ticket machines. I saw two at Wipkingen alone, just the other day.
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Old 19.03.2012, 16:41
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Re: Transport system annoyed me big time!

Couple of interesting comments, couple of sympathizers but also a plethora of trolls in this forum.

I wrote an entry in the "Complaints corner" and complained so as far as I'm concerned I did exactly what I was supposed to. Quite a few seem to go around in here reading complaints and scrapping the barrel for whatever tiny insignificant personal info they can scuff up in order to deduce that the person writing is either a complete liar or a loser and therefore deserved the treatment they got.

This must be an attempt to invalidate the writer and stay in denial about the problems there but it's ultimately counter productive disillusioning yourselves that the fault is always on the complainant and that the transportation staff are in any way kind and understanding because ultimately this is your city and when you are ever caught in extreme circumstances, it is you who will have to pay the fine and it is you who will have to explain yourselves to the unsympathetic conductor who will make sure you feel like sh*t while he's punishing you with a fine.

Suggestions such as "you should have talked to the train driver and stuck around him in case the conductor appeared" are well received but unrealistic because the double decker trains have a separate wagon for the driver who is inaccessible. In fact most suggestions here, I feel, weren't available to me at the time but I'm not saying that there was no way to buy a ticket, I am saying it was particularly tricky in that particular station at that particular time and I didn't have the luxury of time spending half an hour or even fifteen trying to figure it out amongst the commotion with the drunk fans.

What interests me, other than letting steam, is to eventually find out what the alternatives could have been. Someone here said that Altstetten has the new machines, so I am very curious to know where these are and whether there is a chance that they could have been blocked off by police forces because the only machine I saw was the old one, right next to the steps leading down to platform 3 and 4.

All the proof I have that I wasn't fair evading, and I have quite a lot of it, will go directly to the transportation company along with my letter so I don't think it's necessary to produce it here just to address those who desperately seek to invalidate myself and my story.
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Old 19.03.2012, 16:48
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Re: Transport system annoyed me big time!

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London bridge has 10+ permanently manned ticket booths in 3 different locations, and about 50+ machines in 4 areas in and out the station all of which maybe hard to figure out at first but issue all possible tickets and accept all forms of payments.

I don't want to turn this discussion into some UK vs CH comparison thread, because there's positives and negatives everywhere and you don't want to get me started on things that often go wrong in London cause we'll be here forever.

I want to just express my dissatisfaction at the incident that happened to me on Saturday. I was told some central stations in Zurich now have new machines that are capable but I didn't catch a glimpse of any of those on any station I went and maybe it was unlucky but I feel that 20% of my 24 hours there were spent on trying to get a ticket and penny picking to gather correct change. Luckily I was with friends with a car for some parts of the day, otherwise that figure would have been considerably more. And what's worse is that I still ended up with a fine. If you're only there for a few hours, trying to argue the fine or trying to appeal it is impossible, so they just take the money from you because they consider it a safe bet that there's no way you'll bother to get some justice no matter how unfair the circumstances are.

Last weekend a friend visited me in London and on her way to the airport she lost her ticket to Gatwick which I had personally bought for her so I knew she had.
The inspector saw that she was distraught and didn't charge her, instead he even made sure she would exit the station through the barriers and get her flight.
You have no idea how relieved and also proud that made me feel. She will of course visit again soon. Anyone see my point here?

Breaking long lasting relationships with tourists is damaging on long term levels because if I never set foot there again and avert 100 of my mates of doing so throughout the course of my life because my only memory of Switzerland is a police shouting abuse at me and getting a fine, then the ZVV network gained 100CHF but lost a lot more indirectly. It just doesn't make a good business case.
You wish! So the Swiss will lose 500CHF, Wow that will destroy the whole bloody Swiss transport system!
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Old 19.03.2012, 16:51
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Re: Transport system annoyed me big time!

It always helps to go and find the conductor, then you are approaching him with a problem, and they are at least going to be more civil about the whole thing.
Sitting there and then getting your collar felt is much less likely to get any sympathy, as the OP found out.
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  #92  
Old 19.03.2012, 16:51
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Re: Transport system annoyed me big time!

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Hi all!!

What happened to me was, this Saturday at Altstetten station I was utterly horrified by the presence of football fans and police force. There were quite aggressive episodes there, the police (more like an army) had formed phalanxes and scrutinized the crowds. As a result there was no ticket office in sight and there was only an old machine that accepted coins. I was terrified by the loud crowds and the police shouting at them and I only carried a 20CHF with me so I had to escape as quick as possible. I jumped on the train without a ticket and had a plan to get off at the central station and buy a ticket there.
[...]
Nick

PS: I took photos of Altstetten train station. It looked like a war zone and in particular I have a photo of the huge flamethrower guns the police were pointing at the crowds. Perhaps if I send that photo to ZVV they will reconsider.
1) That was Grasshoppers - Young Boys (4800 Spectators), last week would have been Grasshoppers - Basel (7000 Spectators, 5000 of them from Basel). That would have been a real mess.

2) The ticket machines next to the train station accept CC. So do the machines on the platform. They also accept bills up to 20.-. So what was your problem?
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Old 19.03.2012, 16:52
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Re: Transport system annoyed me big time!

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I'm pretty sure that Zürich has more than two ticket machines. I saw two at Wipkingen alone, just the other day.
na, you must have been drunk.
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Old 19.03.2012, 16:53
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Re: Transport system annoyed me big time!

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One major reason why the "But I am a stupid tourist and I don't understand" trick is not accepted is that quite a few foreigners (just look here on this forum) live and work for years already in this city and they can easily come up with the same excuse.

As such, it is hard for the ticket checkers to know/smell/etc that you are really a tourist.

That said though, there are these huge signs stating that using the public transport without a ticket will cause you to be fined. There really is no excuse there, it is like that all around the world that you generally have to pay for the service.

As you claim to got on at Altstetten, that is not a small station and they definitely have multiple ticketing machines. Also, if you would have calmly approached one of the police force and asked for how to get out of there they would have shown you how.

Lastly, in the unlikely case that you are unable to buy a ticket, try to find the ticket, go to them and tell them your story, that is much more convincing than you sitting already and them coming to you to fine you.
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With yet another complaint thread about not having the right ticket. Things in Switzerland work pretty well - if you know the system. But if you don't have the right ticket, you're going to get fined, and you'll just have to accept. Get a ticket next time - I doubt many people are going to believe that you were afraid of a situation where the cops were going to beat you in Zürich.
Completely agree. OP, I am sorry that you had a bad experience, but everywhere in the world, you buy a ticket to travel. If you don't and get caught, you pay - end of story. You might have made an honest mistake, or whatever - it is still YOUR responsibility to have the (correct) ticket. The fact that you may find a sympathetic conductor is a plus, but not something that you should expect, or worse, feel entitled to.

The story about people not being nice, the rant about the machines, etc. it's all irrelevant: in the end, it is still your responsibility to have a valid ticket. Sorry, but you get no sympathy from me (you, and all the other people who travel without ticket, get caught, and then post here to complain).

On what corbets wrote: I agree with you, but even if you don't know the system, my experience has been that there were always plenty of nice people that were happy to help and explained to me how it works when I asked nicely. So really, no excuses.

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Old 19.03.2012, 16:57
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Re: Transport system annoyed me big time!

The only problem with this logic is that IF you are not familiar with CH and the system, of course you are going to complain about getting fined because MANY other countries do show a bit more leniency when it comes to tourists and public transportation. Why do you think so many expats are complaining!

Even those of us who have lived in CH for quite a while have trouble figuring out the night tax, multiple zone tickets etc. I rarely even use the machines if it is the first time I am trying to buy a ticket to do something new (if I have a choice). The ticket machines are NOT very intuitive.

And yes, there are many mornings when I have ran for the bus/tram without change in my pocket. Almost impossible in my neighborhood to find change for a bank note.

Ah, the perils of living in CH...


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With yet another complaint thread about not having the right ticket. Things in Switzerland work pretty well - if you know the system. But if you don't have the right ticket, you're going to get fined, and you'll just have to accept. Get a ticket next time - I doubt many people are going to believe that you were afraid of a situation where the cops were going to beat you in Zürich.

The newer tram ticket machines accept credit cards, by the way. Personally, I think the ticket purchasing system is incredibly straightforward, and I think it's quite helpful that the machines even have an English language option, despite the fact that it's not one of the national languages here.
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Old 19.03.2012, 17:00
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Re: Transport system annoyed me big time!

Hi nkomp18,

Sorry to hear you had a rough time. Good luck with getting the fine reduced.

If it's any comfort, you were (unintentionally, I know) swept up in the middle of major chaos, or what passes for major chaos in Switzerland. There is a fair amount of intentional non-ticket-buying at events like these (the train's packed, ticket inspectors won't be able to move up and down the aisles so why buy a ticket which no one's going to be able to check?) and so you can understand why conductors might be less inclined than usual to give people the benefit of the doubt when they do catch them.

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it's ultimately counter productive disillusioning yourselves that the fault is always on the complainant and that the transportation staff are in any way kind and understanding because ultimately this is your city and when you are ever caught in extreme circumstances, it is you who will have to pay the fine and it is you who will have to explain yourselves to the unsympathetic conductor who will make sure you feel like sh*t while he's punishing you with a fine.
Feel better? Good. That's what this corner is for, letting off some steam.

It's tempting to assume that inspectors are always as hardnosed as this, but in actual fact they aren't. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. I've had both. Again, sorry for your bad luck, and I hope you managed to pack some good memories of Switzerland into your 24 hours as well.
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Old 19.03.2012, 17:01
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Re: Transport system annoyed me big time!

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The ticket machines in Basel are very, very easy to use - either at the SBB or for the local public transport.

Are the Zurich ones not as good? Anyone used both?
The Zürich ones are not supposed to be easy to use. We can't just have anyone using our trams you know.
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Old 19.03.2012, 17:08
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Re: Transport system annoyed me big time!

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The only problem with this logic is that IF you are not familiar with CH and the system, of course you are going to complain about getting fined because MANY other countries do show a bit more leniency when it comes to tourists and public transportation. Why do you think so many expats are complaining!
Absolutely - so many here are going on about this being the same in every country - that one would be fined 'end of story'. This is nonsense and I have already explained how I was shown not just leniency but out of the way helpfulness in Anaheim, California.

No, I am not American so I am not biased. So, moving on to another country, in Britain I was 'let off' for travelling on the wrong train with the wrong ticket because the right train had been delayed. Another example of not being fined and it not being the end of the story.

Sometimes this place (the English Forum more than Switzerland itself) just reeks of complacency and lack of mutual understanding and seems full of those who take issue with the slightest criticism of anything Swiss. I guess they've never heard of the principle of constructive criticism, or common courtesy. Quite sad.

The Encyclopedia Britannica's definition of cognitive dissonance seems fitting: "Mental conflict that occurs when beliefs or assumptions are contradicted by new information. The concept was introduced by the psychologist Leon Festinger (1919-89) in the late 1950s. He and later researchers showed that, when confronted with challenging new information, most people seek to preserve their current understanding of the world by rejecting, explaining away, or avoiding the new information or by convincing themselves that no conflict really exists. Cognitive dissonance is nonetheless considered an explanation for attitude change."

There are alternative ways for society to function than to simply criminalise every little wrong-doing and indiscretion - in fact to do so often blurs the line between genuine socially damaging deviant deliberate behaviour and genuine mistakes (e.g. fining someone for doing 86km/h in an 80 limit 50 metres after a 120km/h limit).

That western societies continue down the road of legislating, fining, regulating and penalising many forms of behaviour left to common sense in other parts of the world does not speak well to the future of western civilisation. ESPECIALLY when some of the truly damaging work of politicians and the latest brood of bankers goes unpunished.
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Old 19.03.2012, 17:16
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Re: Transport system annoyed me big time!

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Couple of interesting comments, couple of sympathizers but also a plethora of trolls in this forum.

I wrote an entry in the "Complaints corner" and complained so as far as I'm concerned I did exactly what I was supposed to. Quite a few seem to go around in here reading complaints and scrapping the barrel for whatever tiny insignificant personal info they can scuff up in order to deduce that the person writing is either a complete liar or a loser and therefore deserved the treatment they got.

This must be an attempt to invalidate the writer and stay in denial about the problems there but it's ultimately counter productive disillusioning yourselves that the fault is always on the complainant and that the transportation staff are in any way kind and understanding because ultimately this is your city and when you are ever caught in extreme circumstances, it is you who will have to pay the fine and it is you who will have to explain yourselves to the unsympathetic conductor who will make sure you feel like sh*t while he's punishing you with a fine.

Suggestions such as "you should have talked to the train driver and stuck around him in case the conductor appeared" are well received but unrealistic because the double decker trains have a separate wagon for the driver who is inaccessible. In fact most suggestions here, I feel, weren't available to me at the time but I'm not saying that there was no way to buy a ticket, I am saying it was particularly tricky in that particular station at that particular time and I didn't have the luxury of time spending half an hour or even fifteen trying to figure it out amongst the commotion with the drunk fans.

What interests me, other than letting steam, is to eventually find out what the alternatives could have been. Someone here said that Altstetten has the new machines, so I am very curious to know where these are and whether there is a chance that they could have been blocked off by police forces because the only machine I saw was the old one, right next to the steps leading down to platform 3 and 4.

All the proof I have that I wasn't fair evading, and I have quite a lot of it, will go directly to the transportation company along with my letter so I don't think it's necessary to produce it here just to address those who desperately seek to invalidate myself and my story.
Trols? Sorry mate, you come on here knocking Zurich transport system then accuse people of being trolls? You screwed up, you could have bought a ticket at Zurich airport,. It really isn't difficult they do have a railway station there. Where you attempted to buy your ticket, I don't know but PEOPLE IN GLASS HOUSES comes to mind!
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Old 19.03.2012, 17:21
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Re: Transport system annoyed me big time!

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Absolutely - so many here are going on about this being the same in every country - that one would be fined 'end of story'. This is nonsense and I have already explained how I was shown not just leniency but out of the way helpfulness in Anaheim, California.

No, I am not American so I am not biased. So, moving on to another country, in Britain I was let off for travelling on the wrong train with the wrong ticket because the right train had been delayed. Another example of not being fined and it not being the end of the story.
Actually I was on a bus in Liverpool once and I was going to a place I'd never been before so I asked the driver to tell me when we were there. He said okay, so I sat down and waited. After some time it looked as though we were leaving town so I asked how much further it was and he was very apologetic and said he'd forgotten about me and that we'd passed my stop a long time ago. So he stopped a bus that was coming the other way and explained to the driver and I was allowed to ride back for free.

That is leniency. It is something I am grateful of and that I praise whan it happens. But it's not something I have an automatic right to.

By the same measure I was also fined once in the UK on a train for having the wrong type of ticket. I tried to exoplain that according to something it said in the small print my ticket ws valid but the inspector wouldn't believe me. I later complained to the company and got my money back and some vouchers as a token of apology. But its still worse being fined when you're right than when you're wrong, and you shouldn't have to complain to get back what's rightfully yours.

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Sometimes this place (the English Forum more than Switzerland itself) just reeks of complacency and lack of mutual understanding and seems full of those who take issue with the slightest criticism of anything Swiss. I guess they've never heard of the principle of constructive criticism, or common courtesy. Quite sad.
I think you'll find the EF is quite understanding to people in real predicaments and always willing to help. But some people, rightly or wrongly, write in such a way that they wind everybody else up and then get to feel the brunt of that. It is easy to be misunderstood and not everybody here speaks English as a first language. Sometimes a little humility can go a long way.
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