Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Complaints corner  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #261  
Old 18.04.2012, 15:44
Nil's Avatar
Nil Nil is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Basel
Posts: 10,356
Groaned at 428 Times in 333 Posts
Thanked 16,045 Times in 6,322 Posts
Nil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Titanic: No God, No Church

Quote:
View Post
It was pretty common in Bedouin societies at the time so it's not out of the realm of possibility, and there are plenty of sources. But keep blinders on and shut your ears going "lalalala" if you wish, since you obviously knew the guy.

Moral relativism, ain't it a B.
And there are plenty of sources that say exactly the opposite. This is my whole point. Nothing is for sure and can be debated according of which sources you take your views.
Reply With Quote
  #262  
Old 18.04.2012, 15:50
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Titanic: No God, No Church

Atheism is merely an intellectual attitude, along with shutting down a portion of mental capability that humans are capable of. It does not really have much to offer, other than.... well.... nothing. Please feel free to suggest if you think otherwise.

Regarding the iconoclastic aspects of the attitude, I don't mind it at all. In fact, humanity needs periods of iconoclasm. Christianity has a long tradition of it. The early Christians went from village to village debunking superstitions in gods and demons. We also see this in Reformation era. Christianity is not merely about its symbolisms anyway.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
This user groans at for this post:
  #263  
Old 18.04.2012, 15:53
Assassin's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Chasing clouds
Posts: 4,023
Groaned at 180 Times in 123 Posts
Thanked 11,560 Times in 3,148 Posts
Assassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Titanic: No God, No Church

Quote:
View Post
I'm Catholic, I believe in birth control and I don't believe in Adam and Eve.
I'm a vegetarian. I believe in eating goats and I like the odd hamburger.

Pick 'n' mix religion? Nah, those are your beliefs.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Assassin for this useful post:
  #264  
Old 18.04.2012, 15:54
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: -
Posts: 1,640
Groaned at 26 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 2,932 Times in 1,202 Posts
Russkov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Titanic: No God, No Church

Quote:
View Post
And there are plenty of sources that say exactly the opposite. This is my whole point. Nothing is for sure and can be debated according of which sources you take your views.
Her life and marriage are well documented. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha , I find few sources that say "exactly the opposite". You don't appear to have much of a point besides "I refuse to believe this". It's not a comfortable thing to learn about someone you admire and perfectly understandable.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Russkov for this useful post:
  #265  
Old 18.04.2012, 15:54
Fridge's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Zürich
Posts: 687
Groaned at 23 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 757 Times in 331 Posts
Fridge has a reputation beyond reputeFridge has a reputation beyond reputeFridge has a reputation beyond reputeFridge has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Titanic: No God, No Church

Quote:
View Post
Atheism is merely an intellectual attitude, along with shutting down a portion of mental capability that humans are capable of. It does not really have much to offer, other than.... well.... nothing. Please feel free to suggest if you think otherwise.

Regarding the iconoclastic aspects of the attitude, I don't mind it at all. In fact, humanity needs periods of iconoclasm. Christianity has a long tradition of it. The early Christians went from village to village debunking superstitions in gods and demons. We also see this in Reformation era. Christianity is not merely about its symbolisms anyway.
In light of:
Quote:
View Post
with shutting down a portion of mental capability that humans are capable of
I refer you to my long-winded post way back.

The difference between people like you and myself is that I am capable of understanding where you're coming from, I just reject it as there is nothing based in reality to support the notion.

You, don't seem to want to even try.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Fridge for this useful post:
  #266  
Old 18.04.2012, 15:58
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Titanic: No God, No Church

Quote:
View Post
In light of:
I refer you to my long-winded post way back.

The difference between people like you and myself is that I am capable of understanding where you're coming from, I just reject it as there is nothing based in reality to support the notion.

You, don't seem to want to even try.

Well, that's presumptious of you. Because I draw on something I cannot even pretend to understand. Are you saying you understand what I draw on?

Amazing omniscient skill you claim to have there.

Do you see what I mean by the smugness of atheists?
Reply With Quote
  #267  
Old 18.04.2012, 15:59
Fridge's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Zürich
Posts: 687
Groaned at 23 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 757 Times in 331 Posts
Fridge has a reputation beyond reputeFridge has a reputation beyond reputeFridge has a reputation beyond reputeFridge has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Titanic: No God, No Church

Quote:
View Post
Well, that's presumptious of you. Because I draw on something I cannot even pretend to understand. Are you saying you understand what I draw on?

Amazing omniscient skill you claim to have there.
Case and point.


Edit: It's really not a hard read, you've provided plenty of material to derive a decent picture of your values and mental frame. Note that I didn't say I understand what you draw on I said that I understand where you're coming from - very, very different things. But yet another example of why the lines of communication fail - you hear what you want to.
Reply With Quote
  #268  
Old 18.04.2012, 16:06
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Titanic: No God, No Church

Quote:
View Post
Case and point.
Whereas the only thing you acknowledge to exist are things you can understand, right? So if you understand less, your life would be much simpler, don't you think?



Quote:
View Post
Edit: It's really not a hard read, you've provided plenty of material to derive a decent picture of your values and mental frame. Note that I didn't say I understand what you draw on I said that I understand where you're coming from - very, very different things. But yet another example of why the lines of communication fail - you hear what you want to.
But if I am drawing on the unknown and unpredictable, how do you know I am the same person you think you understood moments ago?
Reply With Quote
  #269  
Old 18.04.2012, 16:07
Pants-Face's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Dietikon, ZH
Posts: 217
Groaned at 10 Times in 8 Posts
Thanked 344 Times in 130 Posts
Pants-Face has an excellent reputationPants-Face has an excellent reputationPants-Face has an excellent reputationPants-Face has an excellent reputation
Re: Titanic: No God, No Church

Quote:
View Post
Atheism is merely an intellectual attitude, along with shutting down a portion of mental capability that humans are capable of. It does not really have much to offer, other than.... well.... nothing. Please feel free to suggest if you think otherwise.

Regarding the iconoclastic aspects of the attitude, I don't mind it at all. In fact, humanity needs periods of iconoclasm. Christianity has a long tradition of it. The early Christians went from village to village debunking superstitions in gods and demons. We also see this in Reformation era. Christianity is not merely about its symbolisms anyway.


Actually, it has a lot to offer, such as, the freedom of intellect and inquiry. In addition to your own experiences and predisposition, you also have something else telling you what to think. Atheists, for the most part, have only their experiences to tell them what to think/believe, and so have a broader limitation as to what they allow themselves to accept and to pursue intellectually. Like it or not, a religious perspective is quite narrow - I know, I was raised as a Christian.

And have you considered that a lot of us really don't find comfort in the fact that someone is watching over us, or in the fact that there will be an afterlife of some sort? I find no comfort in this, and so I don't need religion. That's why I don't need atheism to ''offer'' me anything much except freedom and uninhibited pursuit of knowledge.
__________________
''In view of the fact that God limited the intelligence of man, it seems unfair that he did not also limit his stupidity''
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Pants-Face for this useful post:
  #270  
Old 18.04.2012, 16:10
Fridge's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Zürich
Posts: 687
Groaned at 23 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 757 Times in 331 Posts
Fridge has a reputation beyond reputeFridge has a reputation beyond reputeFridge has a reputation beyond reputeFridge has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Titanic: No God, No Church

Quote:
View Post
Whereas the only thing you acknowledge to exist are things you can understand, right? So if you understand less, your life would be much simpler, don't you think?
Absolutely not.

Why are you so hell bent against something you have absolutely no grasp of?

You've demonstrated an embarrassingly number of times that you completely miss the point here!!

It's not that we claim to know all, it's that we know not which we cannot support. And even then, we can only claim that it seems to work - until proven otherwise.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Fridge for this useful post:
  #271  
Old 18.04.2012, 16:18
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Titanic: No God, No Church

Quote:
View Post
Actually, it has a lot to offer, such as, the freedom of intellect and inquiry. In addition to your own experiences and predisposition, you also have something else telling you what to think. Atheists, for the most part, have only their experiences to tell them what to think/believe, and so have a broader limitation as to what they allow themselves to accept and to pursue intellectually. Like it or not, a religious perspective is quite narrow - I know, I was raised as a Christian.

Perhaps your perspective on Christianity is limited by your experience of what it was in your environment. Because I have full freedom of intellect and inquiry. In fact, freedom is the very point of salvation. More so, it is freedom from the my own limitations. Just about none of the things I have and experienced in life are my own doing. Any some pretty amazing things happen along the way.
Reply With Quote
This user groans at for this post:
  #272  
Old 18.04.2012, 16:21
Fridge's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Zürich
Posts: 687
Groaned at 23 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 757 Times in 331 Posts
Fridge has a reputation beyond reputeFridge has a reputation beyond reputeFridge has a reputation beyond reputeFridge has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Titanic: No God, No Church

Quote:
View Post
Perhaps your perspective on Christianity is limited by your experience of what it was in your environment. Because I have full freedom of intellect and inquiry. In fact, freedom is the very point of salvation. More so, it is freedom from the my own limitations. Just about none of the things I have and experienced in life are my own doing. Any some pretty amazing things happen along the way.
If nothing is your own doing, then why would membership to a given faith stop you from doing anything "evil"?

You can believe that you're not responsible for your faculties, that's fine. But don't go on saying that anyone who doesn't subscribe to a given brand of theism is only doing so to pursue antisocial behaviour!!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Fridge for this useful post:
  #273  
Old 18.04.2012, 16:23
cyrus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Emmenbruecke
Posts: 2,904
Groaned at 37 Times in 34 Posts
Thanked 3,471 Times in 1,513 Posts
cyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Titanic: No God, No Church

Quote:
View Post
Well, that's presumptious of you. Because I draw on something I cannot even pretend to understand. Are you saying you understand what I draw on?
I would say that we do, as we draw from exact same things, I think our brains work at many levels and think many things we can't put it into words, this doesn't automatically mean ways of perceiving things through thought are divine in nature. I'm pretty damn sure you don't have a deeper insight about anything than regular folks.
Reply With Quote
  #274  
Old 18.04.2012, 16:27
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Titanic: No God, No Church

Quote:
View Post
If nothing is your own doing, then why would membership to a given faith stop you from doing anything "evil"?

You can believe that you're not responsible for your faculties, that's fine. But don't go on saying that anyone who doesn't subscribe to a given brand of theism is only doing so to pursue antisocial behaviour!!

Yes, I can do evil if I choose to. But I have freedom to choose not to.

Yes, there are people who are put off of theism for the very sorts of "freedoms" they think they cannot have, as posted above. You were taught by men that God does not allow it, and that is why you used it as a comparison of "people like you and people like me". That was your atheist boast, which I told you I also have.
Reply With Quote
  #275  
Old 18.04.2012, 16:30
Fridge's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Zürich
Posts: 687
Groaned at 23 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 757 Times in 331 Posts
Fridge has a reputation beyond reputeFridge has a reputation beyond reputeFridge has a reputation beyond reputeFridge has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Titanic: No God, No Church

Quote:
View Post
Yes, I can do evil if I choose to. But I have freedom to choose not to.

Yes, there are people who are put off of theism for the very sorts of "freedoms" they think they cannot have, as posted above. You were taught by men that God does not allow it, and that is why you used it as a comparison of "people like you and people like me". That was your atheist boast, which I told you I also have.
Yay for contradictions, where would be be today without 'em?

So, if you'll excuse me, I need to go dig up my lawn and set it on fire so that I can water it.
Reply With Quote
  #276  
Old 18.04.2012, 16:32
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Titanic: No God, No Church

Quote:
View Post
I would say that we do, as we draw from exact same things, I think our brains work at many levels and think many things we can't put it into words, this doesn't automatically mean ways of perceiving things through thought are divine in nature. I'm pretty damn sure you don't have a deeper insight about anything than regular folks.
You rely on "insight" or "cognition" before you can admit it as reality, right? I don't. I rely on principle. You would call it faith.
Reply With Quote
  #277  
Old 18.04.2012, 16:32
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 228
Groaned at 28 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 229 Times in 110 Posts
DanLF has earned some respectDanLF has earned some respect
Re: Titanic: No God, No Church

Quote:
View Post
Perhaps your perspective on Christianity is limited by your experience of what it was in your environment. Because I have full freedom of intellect and inquiry. In fact, freedom is the very point of salvation. More so, it is freedom from the my own limitations. Just about none of the things I have and experienced in life are my own doing. Any some pretty amazing things happen along the way.
I have never yet met anyone that adheres to the bible having full freedom of intellect and inquiry. There are many things that are proven scientifically that conflict with the bible, evolution for example.
Reply With Quote
  #278  
Old 18.04.2012, 16:34
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Titanic: No God, No Church

Quote:
View Post
I have never yet met anyone that adheres to the bible having full freedom of intellect and inquiry. There are many things that are proven scientifically that conflict with the bible, evolution for example.
Oh no! You said the E word.

I wanted this thread to continue for Oly, so I will not go there. Peruse the other evolution threads please.
Reply With Quote
  #279  
Old 18.04.2012, 16:38
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 228
Groaned at 28 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 229 Times in 110 Posts
DanLF has earned some respectDanLF has earned some respect
Re: Titanic: No God, No Church

Quote:
View Post
Oh no! You said the E word.

I wanted this thread to continue for Oly, so I will not go there. Peruse the other evolution threads please.
You already Godwined the thread several pages back when you brought Nazis into your anti atheist ramblings, so it's too late for that I'm afraid

edit: But still, how can you have freedom of intellect and inquiry when so much of what we know today conflicts with the teachings in the bible?
Reply With Quote
  #280  
Old 18.04.2012, 16:40
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Titanic: No God, No Church

Quote:
View Post
I don't buy that for a minute, and neither would any Hebrew scholar worth his salt. The 'fairly recent introduction' would have to have convinced not just Catholic scholars, but all Hebrew scholars to abandon centuries-old manuscripts. I'd have asked the guy for an explanation of how that came about. Sounds like yet another priest spinning yarns, from where I sit.
Oh I wish I had taped the lecture and made copious notes. I am no Hebrew specialist, but he certainly was, and the documentation and explanations he gave were very convincing. Are you a Hebrew specialist?

Here is another explanation by another expert, Dr Paul Marston:


But what about “Adam and Eve”? Many people do not realize that the Hebrew word “ādām” used in Genesis 1-3 is not a name: it either means “humanity” or “the man”.
It means “humanity” when Gen 1:27 says God created ādām - male and female. This is repeated in Gen 5:2 where it adds that God named as ādām the male and female creation – actually the only place God “names” anything ādām. It plainly is not a personal name here.
The word ādām can also mean “the man”, particularly if ādām either has the indefinite article (the) or is governed by a preposition. One or other of these apply right throughout Gen 2-3, which is why most modern translations simply translate it throughout as “the man”. As for “Eve”, the word appears only in 3:20 where the ādāmcalls his woman’s name “Eve” which the Jews translated in the Greek version ST Paul used as “Life”, because the point is about a function not a new personal name.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
titanic




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
God botherers can no longer rely on the devil's weed ipoddle Swiss politics/news 21 17.12.2010 21:18
No Oven, No Action From Rental Agency, What Now?? Thirsty Housing in general 10 02.09.2010 11:45
No God Bail Out on Environment Mikers International affairs/politics 205 17.04.2009 12:13
Posting your age on a CV. Is it a no no? Soul Food Employment 35 24.09.2008 12:01


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:57.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0