Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Complaints corner  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #101  
Old 17.04.2012, 09:37
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: -
Posts: 1,640
Groaned at 26 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 2,932 Times in 1,202 Posts
Russkov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Titanic: No God, No Church

Quote:
View Post
And all this is evidenced. If a preacher, presenting a position of authority to young minds, spouts off an unsubstantiated story about the almighty smiting the unfaithful, most let it slide as the moral of the story was with good intention. But if a scientist were to do the same, they would be discredited and eventually, most likely expelled from the community.
It was quite amusing to see how religious and secular people reacted differently in this thread, as well as other people in real life whom I've told the story to. The strongest negative reactions, surprisingly, came from people in the middle (agnostics, religious in name only, etc.) Then you get strongly religious people defending the guy's "good intentions" vs. non-believers kind of shrugging it off and going, "What's the big deal, isn't lying to kids what the dude does for a living?"
Reply With Quote
  #102  
Old 17.04.2012, 09:50
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Titanic: No God, No Church

This might help.



+



=

Reply With Quote
  #103  
Old 17.04.2012, 10:25
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 11,135
Groaned at 356 Times in 291 Posts
Thanked 16,441 Times in 8,355 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Titanic: No God, No Church

Quote:
View Post
It was quite amusing to see how religious and secular people reacted differently in this thread, as well as other people in real life whom I've told the story to. The strongest negative reactions, surprisingly, came from people in the middle (agnostics, religious in name only, etc.) Then you get strongly religious people defending the guy's "good intentions" vs. non-believers kind of shrugging it off and going, "What's the big deal, isn't lying to kids what the dude does for a living?"
The road to hell is paved with good intentions..isn't it what they usually say?...

So did the OP get a proper answer? I failed to see that among so many replies about religion...

Quote:
View Post
Our young, local Swiss priest preached to the First Communion kids today that the text "No God, No Church" was printed on the side of the Titanic and that's exactly where the iceberg hit. Is this true? I didn't find anything in the Internet about it. If this story isn't true, I'm going to give the priest a sermon myself.
BTW, as I understand things, the OP would give a sermon to the priest only in case the story is not true.
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old 17.04.2012, 10:35
olygirl's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: d' Innerschwiiz
Posts: 7,619
Groaned at 416 Times in 279 Posts
Thanked 17,921 Times in 5,540 Posts
olygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Titanic: No God, No Church

Quote:
View Post
BTW, as I understand things, the OP would give a sermon to the priest only in case the story is not true.
I'm still here and following the thread.

1. I've spoken to a few locals about this and honestly, no one is dealing with this that emotionally as many posters on this thread.

2. I've spoken to my teenage kids about the priest's religion classes. They've reassured me nobody listens to him anyway so it's all no big deal.

3. The priest hasn't accepted my friendship on FB yet. When the situation finally arises, I plan on bringing a joint and talk about this subject peacefully. (The priest reminds me of Shaggy on Scooby Doo).

Edit: The joint was a joke, OK? I'm bringing Kraüterschnapps instead.
__________________
Faith isn't about everything turning out okay. Faith is about being okay no matter how things turn out.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank olygirl for this useful post:
  #105  
Old 17.04.2012, 10:42
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 11,135
Groaned at 356 Times in 291 Posts
Thanked 16,441 Times in 8,355 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Titanic: No God, No Church

Quote:
View Post

1. I've spoken to a few locals about this and honestly, no one is dealing with this that emotionally as many posters on this thread.

2. I've spoken to my teenage kids about the priest's religion classes. They've reassured me nobody listens to him anyway so it's all no big deal.
Having had religion classes in school...I thought so...
Reply With Quote
  #106  
Old 17.04.2012, 10:48
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Titanic: No God, No Church

Quote:
View Post
Based on your statement, how is there any 'theological point of view'? The only ones I can see are a) amusement that (maybe) some athiests died, b) God can't be bothered sparing innocent lives when he has the opportunity to smite one unbeliever who, conveniently, is back home safely on dry ground.
Quote:
View Post
The post you just quoted explained it. It's the question of what one puts their faith in; God or Man made things. As for your a) & b); those you imagined.
Quote:
View Post
Unfortunately, God is a subset of the group 'Man made things'.

You asked a question about theology, then turn around 180. It wasn't a serious question. You were being a muppet.

Reply With Quote
  #107  
Old 17.04.2012, 10:49
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Titanic: No God, No Church

Quote:
View Post
I'm still here and following the thread.

1. I've spoken to a few locals about this and honestly, no one is dealing with this that emotionally as many posters on this thread.

2. I've spoken to my teenage kids about the priest's religion classes. They've reassured me nobody listens to him anyway so it's all no big deal.

3. The priest hasn't accepted my friendship on FB yet. When the situation finally arises, I plan on bringing a joint and talk about this subject peacefully. (The priest reminds me of Shaggy on Scooby Doo).

Edit: The joint was a joke, OK? I'm bringing Kraüterschnapps instead.
This made me chuckle.

What happened to the olden days of 'church doors' always being open?
Reply With Quote
  #108  
Old 17.04.2012, 11:00
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Titanic: No God, No Church

Quote:
View Post
The term 'more than exhaustive knowledge' is hyperbole, and has no place in the realm of sound logic. Exhaustive knowledge, by definition, is already ... exhaustive. The above assertion is logically fallacious in any case: Exhaustive knowledge is not necessary for one being to have first-hand knowledge of another being. Denying that such knowledge is attainable is yet another claim requiring exhaustive knowledge (i.e., one would have to possess all knowledge in order to be able to state unequivocally whether certain knowledge were attainable or not).

Not just "exhaustive knowledge". Logically, to inequivocally claim "there is no God", one has to be omniscient. Otherwise, the statement qualifies as the opposite of omniscient. Take your pick: unknowing, lacking in knowledge, vacuous.... ignorant.

The most an atheist can truly state is they have the opinion there is no God, or they don't like the idea of the existence of God.

Last edited by Phos; 17.04.2012 at 11:31.
Reply With Quote
  #109  
Old 17.04.2012, 11:34
Pants-Face's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Dietikon, ZH
Posts: 217
Groaned at 10 Times in 8 Posts
Thanked 344 Times in 130 Posts
Pants-Face has an excellent reputationPants-Face has an excellent reputationPants-Face has an excellent reputationPants-Face has an excellent reputation
Re: Titanic: No God, No Church

Quote:
Not long after the disaster, in parts of Ireland and some of the larger Irish communities in the United States, the story was being told that the Titanic had been sunk in an act of Divine retribution, doomed because her very existence defied the power of God and a denied the authority of the Pope and Holy Church. The proof, it was said, was in a cryptic anti-Catholic message hidden in her hull number, the one given to the Titanic by her builder, Harland and Wolff. That mysterious number was 3909-04: when written out and viewed in a mirror, the number spells out the words NO POPE–providing a certain bit of leeway is allowed with the 4.
This I found here

So only by a real stretch of the imagination could the priest's story to the children be ''true'' ...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Pants-Face for this useful post:
  #110  
Old 17.04.2012, 11:40
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: -
Posts: 1,640
Groaned at 26 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 2,932 Times in 1,202 Posts
Russkov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Titanic: No God, No Church

Quote:
View Post
This I found here

So only by a real stretch of the imagination could the priest's story to the children be ''true'' ...
His next week's sermon will be about about the perversion of typing out "80085" in a calculator.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Russkov for this useful post:
  #111  
Old 17.04.2012, 11:46
cyrus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Emmenbruecke
Posts: 2,904
Groaned at 37 Times in 34 Posts
Thanked 3,471 Times in 1,513 Posts
cyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Titanic: No God, No Church

Quote:
View Post
This I found here

So only by a real stretch of the imagination could the priest's story to the children be ''true'' ...
For clarity, later in the article, it turns out it's even less likely.

Quote:
So, was that number 3909-04 actually assigned to the Titanic? No. The only two numbers ever assigned to the ship were her actual builder’s number, 401–she was the four-hundred and first ship built by Harland and Wolff–and her Board of Trade number, 131, 428. And when you write out 401 or 131,428 and hold them up to a mirror, the secret message in them reads–exactly nothing.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank cyrus for this useful post:
  #112  
Old 17.04.2012, 11:55
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Titanic: No God, No Church

Quote:
View Post
This I found here

So only by a real stretch of the imagination could the priest's story to the children be ''true'' ...

Oh geez, if that is the case, that is so ridiculous.
Reply With Quote
  #113  
Old 17.04.2012, 12:09
Confloozed's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 4,801
Groaned at 104 Times in 91 Posts
Thanked 4,965 Times in 2,360 Posts
Confloozed has a reputation beyond reputeConfloozed has a reputation beyond reputeConfloozed has a reputation beyond reputeConfloozed has a reputation beyond reputeConfloozed has a reputation beyond reputeConfloozed has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Titanic: No God, No Church

Quote:
View Post
No, just simply no.

There was no fancy word play there, just an accurate description.

I'm afraid that using a blind faith accusation for the "faithless" in regards to a blind following of science just doesn't apply - and really, it's one of the absolutely most astonishing failings of any pro-religion rebuttal I've seen.

The issue, is that we just simply don't share the same reasoning. In our training, we are taught to question, you are taught to believe; we are taught that our ideas must be supported by observed reality, you are taught that any idea that isn't supported is simply "divine"; we are taught that being proven wrong makes for a good day as we've learned something new, you're taught to resist views other than those preached from your specific brand of book; we're taught that a strong argument is logical and supportable; you're taught to appeal to wonder and emotion; we're taught that we "know" nothing, but to build on what we can support today to further what we do understand, you're taught that if you can link it to tone scripture, you "know" it to be true.

Unfortunately, though faith has indeed served mankind in the past, I, and I sincerely hope the majority of my kin, do not need a dusty book of questionable origin and a condescending flock of sinister-hat-and-robe donned congregation to tell me that theft and murder are bad things!!

To come to the real point, I'm afraid that I don't believe we'll ever really be able to communicate on a meaningful level. You see, questioning the universe and presenting those findings to peers for review is the foundation of our communication, and unfortunately as you would have had no experience in that, your arguments come across as poorly conceived, muddled, self-congratulatory, naive and infantile at the best of times.

And all this is evidenced. If a preacher, presenting a position of authority to young minds, spouts off an unsubstantiated story about the almighty smiting the unfaithful, most let it slide as the moral of the story was with good intention. But if a scientist were to do the same, they would be discredited and eventually, most likely expelled from the community.


I'm afraid these differences on core view will forever present a rift. You will always see me as a faithless , immoral "god-player", and I will likely always see you as naive, emotional and illogical.

But please, present a valid argument and prove me wrong.
You think that was the weakest argument you have ever seen? The fact is I was giving an answer. I never expected you would agree with me.

However, as you are assuming on me again...
So I blindly follow? I am taught to be a sheep? Why is it that you assume that? Jesus taught to question him. To seek out if what is taught is not correct. I don't want to get that much into my personal beliefs with you. But I will tell you I spent years doing that, and most my life contemplating the true origins of man(scientifically/evolution). Don't tell me I blindly follow because I am don't either go 100% to one way or another.

I never said you were faithless. And I hold no animosity towards non Christians or Atheists. But I have seen quite a few atheists holding animosity towards Christians, and especially on this thread. It's not simply disagreeing but attacks on my faith that I enormously sick of.

You have people in every religion and every field of science, education, medicine, etc that create new approaches to be heard that are ethically wrong. But it almost always seem that there is animosity most held towards Christians. The argument laid down that I can never scientifically provide information to the existence of God that can be held up in the view of the public, is the same argument why you will never be able to not prove his existence either.
Reply With Quote
  #114  
Old 17.04.2012, 12:16
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Titanic: No God, No Church

Quote:
View Post
The argument laid down that I can never scientifically provide information to the existence of God that can be held up in the view of the public, is the same argument why you will never be able to not prove his existence either.
Why would anyone want to 'not prove' (I presume you mean disprove?) the existence of something they know not to exist? Just as you, presumably, wouldn't feel the need to disprove the existence of fairies at the bottom of the garden.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #115  
Old 17.04.2012, 12:26
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Zug
Posts: 693
Groaned at 25 Times in 21 Posts
Thanked 781 Times in 358 Posts
xkcd has a reputation beyond reputexkcd has a reputation beyond reputexkcd has a reputation beyond reputexkcd has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Titanic: No God, No Church

Quote:
View Post
3. The priest hasn't accepted my friendship on FB yet. When the situation finally arises, I plan on bringing a joint and talk about this subject peacefully. (The priest reminds me of Shaggy on Scooby Doo).
Edit: The joint was a joke, OK? I'm bringing Kraüterschnapps instead.
I wondered about it the first time you mentioned it - care to explain why a FB friendship is required before communicating in the real world with a teacher of your children ? Is this something specific to Schwyz ?
Reply With Quote
  #116  
Old 17.04.2012, 12:28
olygirl's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: d' Innerschwiiz
Posts: 7,619
Groaned at 416 Times in 279 Posts
Thanked 17,921 Times in 5,540 Posts
olygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Titanic: No God, No Church

Quote:
View Post
I wondered about it the first time you mentioned it - care to explain why a FB friendship is required before communicating in the real world with a teacher of your children ? Is this something specific to Schwyz ?
It's a choice I'm making. Nothing more or less. I'd send him a text message but I don't have his number.
Reply With Quote
  #117  
Old 17.04.2012, 12:50
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Titanic: No God, No Church

Is that what they mean by 'passive/aggressive' lol. My personal choice would be to have a chat face to face, rather than FB or text. Bonne chance
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #118  
Old 17.04.2012, 12:53
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 11,135
Groaned at 356 Times in 291 Posts
Thanked 16,441 Times in 8,355 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Titanic: No God, No Church

Quote:
View Post
But it almost always seem that there is animosity most held towards Christians.
Or Muslims. Or Jews..

Shouldn't people better not discuss so much about religion? (rhetorical question)
Reply With Quote
  #119  
Old 17.04.2012, 13:03
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Near Geneva
Posts: 3,216
Groaned at 35 Times in 29 Posts
Thanked 4,162 Times in 1,847 Posts
Anjela has a reputation beyond reputeAnjela has a reputation beyond reputeAnjela has a reputation beyond reputeAnjela has a reputation beyond reputeAnjela has a reputation beyond reputeAnjela has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Titanic: No God, No Church

Quote:
View Post
I wondered about it the first time you mentioned it - care to explain why a FB friendship is required before communicating in the real world with a teacher of your children ? Is this something specific to Schwyz ?
In Switzerland I understand that teachers of classes up to primary level (~11 years of age) are required to provide full contact details to the parents. Beyond that age group they are supposed to provide a contact number, but it can then just be a mobile number.

@olygirl, does the church notice-board or web-page have a contact number for your priest? FB is a little unreliable, he could be ignoring you there specifically because he wants to avoid having to discuss your concerns. Like Odile I think you should speak to him in person, that way you can see his reaction and judge the level of sincerity/humour/anger in his reply.
Reply With Quote
  #120  
Old 17.04.2012, 13:12
olygirl's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: d' Innerschwiiz
Posts: 7,619
Groaned at 416 Times in 279 Posts
Thanked 17,921 Times in 5,540 Posts
olygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Titanic: No God, No Church

Quote:
View Post
@olygirl, does the church notice-board or web-page have a contact number for your priest? FB is a little unreliable, he could be ignoring you there specifically because he wants to avoid having to discuss your concerns. Like Odile I think you should speak to him in person, that way you can see his reaction and judge the level of sincerity/humour/anger in his reply.
This is starting to creep me out. Can we stay on topic about the Titanic and church sermons and avoid casting the evil eye onto the OP? Thanks.

Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
titanic




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
God botherers can no longer rely on the devil's weed ipoddle Swiss politics/news 21 17.12.2010 21:18
No Oven, No Action From Rental Agency, What Now?? Thirsty Housing in general 10 02.09.2010 11:45
No God Bail Out on Environment Mikers International affairs/politics 205 17.04.2009 12:13
Posting your age on a CV. Is it a no no? Soul Food Employment 35 24.09.2008 12:01


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 17:29.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0