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Old 05.05.2012, 15:25
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Are my children semi-invisible!?

Since the very first time I walked into a Migros supermarket I thought "My God - do these people have such poor eyesight, are my children semi-invisible, or are they just plain rude, self-centered and abnoxious!?".

I have 3 kids under the age of 7 yrs old, and in Australia (Sydney, Melbourne & Adelaide) I could take all of them with me to the supermarket shopping (Coles, BiLo, Aldi, Woolies etc) without constantly (or ever) fearing that some employee or fellow-shopper was going to walk over them, stumble into them or plain outright injure them ... but here? - Forget it! I have seen so many people who are pissed off if my 4 yr old is walking a whisp slower than they are ... "Excuse me .. this is a public space .. and it's just plain rude to get cranky at my kid for absolutely nothing!!!" ..

That pisses me off - I am almost at the point where if someone even begins to get cross about me taking my kids shopping I am going to tell them to F-off!

Just today I had a Migros employee shove a huge stack of crates into my kid - If it was not for the fact that I needed to tend to his ouchie I would have taken the employee to the managment!

I don't give a crap how busy you think you are, if you can't spare an ounce of consideration for a little kid - guess what - your too damn busy!
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Old 05.05.2012, 15:29
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Re: Are my children semi-invisible!?

Different cultures.
You will also get this kind of reaction if you take all three to a restaurant.
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Old 05.05.2012, 15:37
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Re: Are my children semi-invisible!?

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Different cultures.
You will also get this kind of reaction if you take all three to a restaurant.
I would not take my kids to a restaurant that did not have some sort of child-friendly environment, but I don't think one can place restaurants and plain ol' supermarkets on the same level - totally different IMO.

Regarding difference in "cultures" ... I have been to over 40 countries on 6 continents - Are we saying that the Swiss are just a rude and inconsiderate people!? I don't think so, as when I take my kids to another supermarket in a smaller village or town the atmosphere is much more pleasant ... so it's not "culture" but just the attitude that "since I am in the big city I am suddenly elevated to a position where I don't have to give a damn about others any more" - I actually see it as a lack of "elevation" and a more primitive standard.
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Old 05.05.2012, 15:40
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Re: Are my children semi-invisible!?

Half the time I feel as though I'm invisible -- and I'm a full-grown adult.
I'm not short, and I weight more than 50 kilos, so it's not like I disappear if I turn sideways either.

I'm not sure it's a Swiss thing either. Some people just seem to believe that they are the only one in their world. But you can be sure that if you somehow manage to crash into them, a firestorm would explode in your face.

Last edited by bedevil; 05.05.2012 at 15:40. Reason: stutter
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Old 05.05.2012, 15:52
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Re: Are my children semi-invisible!?

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I would not take my kids to a restaurant that did not have some sort of child-friendly environment, but I don't think one can place restaurants and plain ol' supermarkets on the same level - totally different IMO.

Regarding difference in "cultures" ... I have been to over 40 countries on 6 continents - Are we saying that the Swiss are just a rude and inconsiderate people!? I don't think so, as when I take my kids to another supermarket in a smaller village or town the atmosphere is much more pleasant ... so it's not "culture" but just the attitude that "since I am in the big city I am suddenly elevated to a position where I don't have to give a damn about others any more" - I actually see it as a lack of "elevation" and a more primitive standard.
Like bedevil, I was going to respond to the bold text by saying that I don't believe the reactions that trouble you can necessarily be attributed to someone being Swiss, but then I noted that your profile says you yourself are Swiss.

I would assume that if that is indeed the case, you have more basis on which to draw your own conclusions about the Swiss compared to asking the opinion of the members of EF, the majority of whom are expats, i.e. it is you who should probably be enlightening us!
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Old 05.05.2012, 15:55
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Re: Are my children semi-invisible!?

I don't think it's a child vs. adult thing. This is how they are towards anyone who ins't a known friend or relative. It's all treated with indifference.

I went shopping in France a couple of weeks ago and I marveled at how people actually MOVED their carts out of the way if they noticed that it was blocking my access, and they also said "pardon" if our paths crossed or we bumped.

A little girl even ran into me with her family's shopping cart and said "pardon" and her dad yelled at her and told her to be more careful.

I thought... "wow... I must be in heaven, because this NEVER would happen in Switzerland"
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Old 05.05.2012, 15:56
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Re: Are my children semi-invisible!?

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Like bedevil, I was going to respond to the bold text by saying that I don't believe the reactions that trouble you can necessarily be attributed to someone being Swiss, but then I noted that your profile says you yourself are Swiss.

I would assume that if that is indeed the case, you have more basis on which to draw your own conclusions about the Swiss compared to asking the opinion of the members of EF, the majority of whom are expats, i.e. it is you who should probably be enlightening us!
I am Swiss - though this is the first time that I am living in Switzerland as an adult, with my wife and kids. (arrived a little more than a month ago)
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Old 05.05.2012, 15:57
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Re: Are my children semi-invisible!?

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Since the very first time I walked into a Migros supermarket I thought "My God - do these people have such poor eyesight, are my children semi-invisible, or are they just plain rude, self-centered and abnoxious!?".

I have 3 kids under the age of 7 yrs old, and in Australia (Sydney, Melbourne & Adelaide) I could take all of them with me to the supermarket shopping (Coles, BiLo, Aldi, Woolies etc) without constantly (or ever) fearing that some employee or fellow-shopper was going to walk over them, stumble into them or plain outright injure them ... but here? - Forget it! I have seen so many people who are pissed off if my 4 yr old is walking a whisp slower than they are ... "Excuse me .. this is a public space .. and it's just plain rude to get cranky at my kid for absolutely nothing!!!" ..

That pisses me off - I am almost at the point where if someone even begins to get cross about me taking my kids shopping I am going to tell them to F-off!

Just today I had a Migros employee shove a huge stack of crates into my kid - If it was not for the fact that I needed to tend to his ouchie I would have taken the employee to the managment!

I don't give a crap how busy you think you are, if you can't spare an ounce of consideration for a little kid - guess what - your too damn busy!
did you by any chance also have your kids knocked by some horrible woman at the Zurich HB?
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Old 05.05.2012, 16:01
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Re: Are my children semi-invisible!?

and to address the OP:

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"My God - do these people have such poor eyesight, are my children semi-invisible, or
or.. people here expect that parents are capable of looking after their kids by themselves and to be responsible enough not to put them into danger.

furthermore, they expect that if they aren't able to look after the kids, they should leave them at home with a baby-sitter. and if they can't afford one, then to have thought about that before creating such spawn.

the rest of society isn't here to babysit your mistakes/life-choices. we already do our bit financially by subsidising your spawn through taxes and public schools.

the supermarket isn't a playground for your kids to be running around in.

please take some responsibility for your spawn.
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Old 05.05.2012, 16:21
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Re: Are my children semi-invisible!?

Once again and after more than 40 years here, I just haven't made the same sort of experience either with our own children or with my grandchildren, never mind where we are. On a recent visit to California (the place where, when people leave the table in a restaurant it looks as if a bomb had dropped) my daughter-in-law was complimented on her children's behaviour and asked 'how on earth do you do it?'. Her children are no different than the majority of children of all nationalities who are shown by example at home and not by some TV soap (where manners just don't exist) destroying every vestige of common sense.
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Old 05.05.2012, 16:27
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Re: Are my children semi-invisible!?

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and to address the OP:



or.. people here expect that parents are capable of looking after their kids by themselves and to be responsible enough not to put them into danger.

furthermore, they expect that if they aren't able to look after the kids, they should leave them at home with a baby-sitter. and if they can't afford one, then to have thought about that before creating such spawn.

the rest of society isn't here to babysit your mistakes/life-choices. we already do our bit financially by subsidising your spawn through taxes and public schools.

the supermarket isn't a playground for your kids to be running around in.

please take some responsibility for your spawn.
What a load of utter tripe! When did going shopping for groceries with your kids ever equal "putting them into danger"? And this has little-to-nothing to do about being a responsible parent or looking after your kids - just the fact that in a city of millions, such as Sydney, I can take my kids shopping without a hitch of rudness from others, but that in some little Swiss city I experience this (really YOUR attitude) from day one, goes to show that it has everything to do with the people around me and nothing to do with my kids, my parenting skills or responsibility in caring for my kids! And for your information my wife and I constantly are told what well-behaved kids we have and how vigoriously we look after them! So there!

Remember you were also someones "spawn" once upon a time - and I shudder to think what you were like as a kid ... looking at the way you've turned out!
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Old 05.05.2012, 16:29
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Re: Are my children semi-invisible!?

Come on Phil, that is really below the belt. I can see both sides, and would agree that there are 'some' parents (in the UK too, and all over the world) who really do not supervise their children sufficiently and really have no respect for others. But your post is offensive I bet even YOU was a kid once and that your behaviour was not always impeccable.

Who is going to pay your pension if people stop having kids (Edit, EAB posts crossed). Must say though that we rarely too the kids shopping in large supermarkets when they were little - we took it in turn with neighbours to look after the kids so we could all go shopping along without all the hassle. My daughter and sil usually take it in turn to do the big grocery shopping - much quicker and much easier!
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Old 05.05.2012, 16:33
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Re: Are my children semi-invisible!?

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Once again and after more than 40 years here, I just haven't made the same sort of experience either with our own children or with my grandchildren, never mind where we are. On a recent visit to California (the place where, when people leave the table in a restaurant it looks as if a bomb had dropped) my daughter-in-law was complimented on her children's behaviour and asked 'how on earth do you do it?'. Her children are no different than the majority of children of all nationalities who are shown by example at home and not by some TV soap (where manners just don't exist) destroying every vestige of common sense.
Sorry, don't follow what you are trying to say here ...
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Old 05.05.2012, 16:44
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Re: Are my children semi-invisible!?

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I don't think it's a child vs. adult thing. This is how they are towards anyone who ins't a known friend or relative. It's all treated with indifference.
Yes, your probably right. I just thought that in regards to kids (especially kids who are NOT acting bratty) that grown-ups in a civil society would be slightly more considerate ...
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Old 05.05.2012, 16:50
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Re: Are my children semi-invisible!?

You know, I love the English forum for a variety of reasons. However, one aspect of the site that drives me crazy is the bitterness and contempt that seems to frequently accompany many of the "Legend Forums". Why do the most senior members seem so disgruntled? In my experience, it is the primary turnoff of the site. Try to be kind people. The world is a difficult enough place as it is.
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Old 05.05.2012, 16:55
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Re: Are my children semi-invisible!?

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Sorry, don't follow what you are trying to say here ...
That children's behaviour depends upon their upbringing.
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Old 05.05.2012, 16:55
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Re: Are my children semi-invisible!?

OP, here is a whole other thread about Swiss people running into other people/things (courtesy of KeinFranzösisch, thanks! ) which you might find relevant/interesting given your experience at Migros.
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Old 05.05.2012, 16:59
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Re: Are my children semi-invisible!?

well people here dont think or dont care about the other people.
i explain, if am in the supermarket and i bring a einkaufwagen full, and behind me is a person with 2 to 5 items, i let them go before me, but the people never do that back to me, even if i have one bag of diaper and a baby in my arms.
and here well the people just put the einkaufwagen in the middle, then i just say sorry or excuse me and i move it away...never have a bad face, just people who say sorry
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Old 05.05.2012, 17:01
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Re: Are my children semi-invisible!?

Apologies for my semi-off topic previous comment. I have decided to start a separate thread dedicated to the topic of grouchy "Forum Legends". Take care!
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Old 05.05.2012, 17:18
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Re: Are my children semi-invisible!?

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Try to be kind people.
Yes in general, but we are dealing here with a parent who is yelling at us for not paying enough attention to his children in a supermarket. In my upbringing, yelling at people with undermining allegations is not "kind". Maybe it's just me...
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