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  #21  
Old 05.06.2012, 16:30
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Re: Patriotism

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off topic.. turns out it wasnt a gig but... "barnabus, 40ft St Ives mackerel driver, from 1880"
Shouldn't they be sent to the tower for having a flag bigger than the Union Jack that was also flown?
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  #22  
Old 05.06.2012, 16:32
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Re: Patriotism

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Shouldn't they be sent to the tower for having a flag bigger than the Union Jack that was also flown?
I was wondering about that.. I know by US tradition the star and stripes should be the tallest and largest flag.. anyone know Union flag traditions?
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  #23  
Old 05.06.2012, 16:33
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Re: Patriotism

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Re: the Queen's Jubilee, preposterous fawning over "Britishness", and vigorous waving of Union Jacks

Being proud of simply being from a place, be it Britain, London, or anywhere else, is like being proud of having toenails or breathing oxygen. It's not an achievement, and it's not anything you've had any influence over whatsoever. If you really need something to be proud of, try looking at something that directly relates to you: your achievements, your family, your friends, their achievements. Chances are they're much more worthy of the sentiment than something as completely arbitrary as the country you're from, or the centuries-old leftovers of a ruling class.
Being born in a particular place is admittedly not an achievement, nor a source of embarrassment. However - neither is being born in a particular family ("the sperm lottery"), so I do not quite see the distinction.

Besides, if you can stomach taking pride in the accomplishments of your family and friends, then stretching the tribe to include the rest of the village or country is only a small logical step!
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  #24  
Old 05.06.2012, 16:38
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Re: Patriotism

I'd like to quote the great (Canadian) Neil Peart, from Rush:

I see the middle kingdom between Heaven and Earth
Like the Chinese call the country of their birth
We all figure that our homes, our homes are set above
Other people than the ones, ones we know and love

And:

They shoot without shame in the name of a piece of dirt
For a change of accent or the color of your shirt
Better the pride that resides in a citizen of the world
Than the pride that divides when a colorful rag is unfurled

From the song "Territories" from 1985's "Power Windows".
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  #25  
Old 05.06.2012, 16:44
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Re: Patriotism

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Re: the Queen's Jubilee, preposterous fawning over "Britishness", and vigorous waving of Union Jacks

Being proud of simply being from a place, be it Britain, London, or anywhere else, is like being proud of having toenails or breathing oxygen. It's not an achievement, and it's not anything you've had any influence over whatsoever. .
They proudly paid thousand of patriotic ₤ in taxes to be allowed to be proud as proud can be.
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  #26  
Old 05.06.2012, 16:47
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Re: Patriotism

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They proudly paid thousand of patriotic ₤ in taxes to be allowed to be proud as proud can be.
The pageant was (apart from security costs) funded entirely by donations from private businesses.

You know, private business like in the U.S. but there it doesn't fund pageants but decides U.S. domestic and foreign policy.
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  #27  
Old 05.06.2012, 16:47
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Re: Patriotism

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Besides, if you can stomach taking pride in the accomplishments of your family and friends, then stretching the tribe to include the rest of the village or country is only a small logical step!
At least your country doesn't send out those annoying Christmas letters.
"We're so proud of little Stifflip! He's out of prison and making quite a name for himself and seems to be doing quite well. Why just the other day he came home with a new BMW! We don't know how he does it!"
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  #28  
Old 05.06.2012, 16:54
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Re: Patriotism

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So what are the alternatives? Chop their heads off and suffer Nicolas Sarkozy? Bring in Presidents that abuse their power, as in the USA? Choose a leader that allows his friends to rob the country?
At least they have been elected by the people .
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  #29  
Old 05.06.2012, 16:59
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Re: Patriotism

Is it the British patriotism you are particularly objecting to or any display of patriotism? Looking at my shopping bag on the kitchen counter, it appears here in Switzerland, I can't even buy a bag of flour without liberal use of the word "Swiss" (in 3 languages) and a representation of the Swiss flag. Does this offend you also?

Last edited by ecb; 05.06.2012 at 18:54.
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  #30  
Old 05.06.2012, 17:00
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Re: Patriotism

I think we are all 'proud' of wherever we are from...
As an American I don't quite get the delight of royalty watching, but I will say that the queen has certainly been an assest to her country through the many years and that is saying something. She seems a lovely person, sincere, and kind. Anyone who has 'hung in there' that long and endured the changing of the times in a very public position surely deserves a jubilee!
However, my husband (not English, nor American) points out that whenever England has an upset in economy, loss of jobs, etc. they pull out the royals for a celebration in order to distract their people.
haha....
(now I am open to the usual comments & join the ranks of putting myself out there for a stomping) I retreat to my corner.
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  #31  
Old 05.06.2012, 17:02
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Re: Patriotism

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However, my husband (not English, nor American) points out that whenever England has an upset in economy, loss of jobs, etc. they pull out the royals for a celebration in order to distract their people.
I suppose they could just invade a foreign country instead!
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  #32  
Old 05.06.2012, 17:03
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Re: Patriotism

the only contra for me is that the security bill is picked up by the tax payer
and i think the queen should cover it herself.
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  #33  
Old 05.06.2012, 17:05
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Re: Patriotism

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However, my husband (not English, nor American) points out that whenever England has an upset in economy, loss of jobs, etc. they pull out the royals for a celebration in order to distract their people.
and America invades somewhere ( remember I am at least in part a Yank )

France stages a strike or two...

Itlay..Berlosconi, in his day, gets implants, or dates someone with


it's all a game of diversion.
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  #34  
Old 05.06.2012, 17:14
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Re: Patriotism

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At least they have been elected by the people .
I'm not quite sure what your point is. Is that an argument for or against?

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However, my husband (not English, nor American) points out that whenever England has an upset in economy, loss of jobs, etc. they pull out the royals for a celebration in order to distract their people.
Wow. The Queen managed to time that right, back in 1952!
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  #35  
Old 05.06.2012, 17:16
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Re: Patriotism

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At least they have been elected by the people .
Kings and Queens are elected by God, checkmate!
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  #36  
Old 05.06.2012, 17:16
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Re: Patriotism

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At least they have been elected by the people .
So: elected head of states:

Sarkozy
Berlusconi
Putin

hmm.

If we had an elected head of state, it could end up being Tony Blair. And imagine the London Mayor campaigns at a country-wide level? No. I'll stick with Queeny and her brood, thank-you. May not be perfect, but it's far far better than the alternatives.
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  #37  
Old 05.06.2012, 17:18
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Re: Patriotism

You forgot a couple:

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So: elected head of states:

Bush (Mk I)
Clinton
Bush (Mk II)
Sarkozy
Berlusconi
Putin
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  #38  
Old 05.06.2012, 17:18
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Re: Patriotism

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Is it the British patritism you are particularly objecting to or any display of patriotism? Looking at my shopping bag on the kitchen counter, it appears here in Switzerland, I can't even buy a bag of flour without liberal use of the word "Swiss" (in 3 languages) and a representation of the Swiss flag. Does this offend you also?
Maybe you should contest this somewhere in an internaional organisationcan`t even buy ,shocking
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  #39  
Old 05.06.2012, 17:22
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Re: Patriotism

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You forgot a couple:
The mayor of Toronto
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  #40  
Old 05.06.2012, 17:38
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Re: Patriotism

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I'm not quite sure what your point is. Is that an argument for or against?

Against. I just don't understand being imposed a monarchy and enjoy it .

I come from Spain, by the way, so to some extent I know how it feels (to me).
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