Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Complaints corner  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 05.06.2012, 17:41
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Patriotism

Quote:
View Post
So: elected head of states:

Sarkozy
Berlusconi
Putin

hmm.

If we had an elected head of state, it could end up being Tony Blair. And imagine the London Mayor campaigns at a country-wide level? No. I'll stick with Queeny and her brood, thank-you. May not be perfect, but it's far far better than the alternatives.
Yes, we get it wrong very often, but I least we have a choice.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 05.06.2012, 17:59
NotAllThere's Avatar
Modulo 2
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 14,547
Groaned at 280 Times in 239 Posts
Thanked 21,877 Times in 8,860 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Patriotism

Quote:
View Post
Yes, we get it wrong very often, but I least we have a choice.
So... when we have a choice, we mostly get it wrong, and when we don't it works out very nicely. And somehow having a choice is better?

What's so great about having a choice about which person, who is essentially a figurehead, is the representative of the sovereignty of our nation? The Queen has no political power (well, she does, but only on the understanding that she never uses it), so what's the problem?

People love Greenpeace, the RSPCA, WWF and such like. How many of these organisations - which have real power - are entirely democractic?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post:
  #43  
Old 05.06.2012, 18:12
Carlos R's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Roundn'about Basel
Posts: 7,232
Groaned at 105 Times in 95 Posts
Thanked 9,934 Times in 4,178 Posts
Carlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Patriotism

Quote:
View Post
Against. I just don't understand being imposed a monarchy and enjoy it .

I come from Spain, by the way, so to some extent I know how it feels (to me).
What he said:

Quote:
View Post
So... when we have a choice, we mostly get it wrong, and when we don't it works out very nicely. And somehow having a choice is better?
Plus, given that the Queen has very little to say over the running of the country by the elected politicians, your point really is quite irrelevant. But if it really makes you feel better, carry on.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 05.06.2012, 18:20
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Patriotism

Quote:
View Post
So... when we have a choice, we mostly get it wrong, and when we don't it works out very nicely. And somehow having a choice is better?

What's so great about having a choice about which person, who is essentially a figurehead, is the representative of the sovereignty of our nation? The Queen has no political power (well, she does, but only on the understanding that she never uses it), so what's the problem?

People love Greenpeace, the RSPCA, WWF and such like. How many of these organisations - which have real power - are entirely democractic?
I'm glad you are happy under a monarchy, since you don't have a choice in the matter

I guess we have to agree to disagree. To me, it all comes down to impositions, I just don't like them. Of course, you can find impositions in every day life, but when it's something so big as to who rules my country, it makes me cringe inside.

You can argue that they have very limited political power, so it wouldn't affect me so much. But then, what's the purpose of the morarchy?

Yes, I heard all arguments, pro and con. Just let me be against.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 05.06.2012, 18:21
Whitters's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Nyon
Posts: 178
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 99 Times in 55 Posts
Whitters has no particular reputation at present
Re: Patriotism

A recent poll in the UK had only 13% in favour of becoming a Republic, so if this is truly representative of the nation as a whole if there were to be a referendum, you could argue that the UK would elect the Queen as head of state.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Whitters for this useful post:
  #46  
Old 05.06.2012, 18:47
nigelr's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Aargau
Posts: 1,712
Groaned at 118 Times in 59 Posts
Thanked 2,140 Times in 942 Posts
nigelr has a reputation beyond reputenigelr has a reputation beyond reputenigelr has a reputation beyond reputenigelr has a reputation beyond reputenigelr has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Patriotism

Quote:
View Post
I'm glad you are happy under a monarchy, since you don't have a choice in the matter

I guess we have to agree to disagree. To me, it all comes down to impositions, I just don't like them. Of course, you can find impositions in every day life, but when it's something so big as to who rules my country, it makes me cringe inside.

You can argue that they have very limited political power, so it wouldn't affect me so much. But then, what's the purpose of the morarchy?

Yes, I heard all arguments, pro and con. Just let me be against.
The queen doesn't rule anything, I think you will find her diary is full for the next 2-3 years of things that she would rather not be doing and meeting people she would rather avoid.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank nigelr for this useful post:
  #47  
Old 05.06.2012, 18:47
mimi1981's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: London, previously Basel
Posts: 3,773
Groaned at 21 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 5,792 Times in 2,173 Posts
mimi1981 has a reputation beyond reputemimi1981 has a reputation beyond reputemimi1981 has a reputation beyond reputemimi1981 has a reputation beyond reputemimi1981 has a reputation beyond reputemimi1981 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Patriotism

I was proud to be British when I read in the news this morning that only a handful of people were arrested out of the thousands that were on the street. After the riots last summer it was a relief to see I didn't have to be embarrassed by my country folk. Seeing all the street parties in the UK and also the efforts gone to on Saturday in Zurich then why shouldn't we be proud?

I'm not a royalist or particularly fond of England normally so it was refreshing to feel a little homesick after seeing the concert last night. I'm the first to slate my birthplace as it has really changed in recent years and certain political decisions left a bad taste in my mouth.

Also are you a football fan? Do you not feel proud if your team wins the World Cup? I've rarely seen anyone (even if they don't like footy) not celebrate and wave their country's flag - isn't that patriotism too?
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank mimi1981 for this useful post:
  #48  
Old 05.06.2012, 19:38
PaddyG's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Pensier, Fribourg
Posts: 9,243
Groaned at 118 Times in 102 Posts
Thanked 16,857 Times in 5,912 Posts
PaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond repute
Can I just add that all citizens of the EU have rules and regulations imposed on them by the EU commissions, yet none of these commissioners were elected? The Queen may have been imposed on us, but she has no political power.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank PaddyG for this useful post:
  #49  
Old 05.06.2012, 20:08
Sbrinz's Avatar
RIP
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Murten - Morat
Posts: 11,866
Groaned at 563 Times in 354 Posts
Thanked 11,548 Times in 5,941 Posts
Sbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Patriotism

In 1969 the Australians elected a government, and the outgoing party lost by a small margin. They spent about a week trying to get a coalition together that was larger than the winning party.

On hearing that the government hadn't moved out, she sent the govenor of Australia round to throw him out! Some Australians were really shocked at the time, as they had gorgotten that she is their head of state.

Queen Elizabeth II is separately and equally monarch of 16 sovereign countries sometimes known collectively as the Commonwealth realms
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...and_government

She is also head of the UK armed forces and the Church of England.

So yeah, you are right, she is just a figure head and has no real power.

I like the monarchy as they are incorruptible, and constant, and they cost the British tax payer very little, something like 2 CHF per person per year.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Sbrinz for this useful post:
  #50  
Old 05.06.2012, 20:13
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 1,983
Groaned at 69 Times in 52 Posts
Thanked 5,074 Times in 1,802 Posts
crazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Patriotism

Quote:
View Post
So have you just got out of bed the wrong side?

17 million people in Britain watched the celebrations yesterday evening, they could have watched something else, but like you they felt unable to change channels. If you don't like it, watch something else.

Some people are simply patriotic, and I think nearly every British person has a fondness for the Queen. The other family members leave much to be desired.

So what are the alternatives? Chop their heads off and suffer Nicolas Sarkozy? Bring in Presidents that abuse their power, as in the USA? Choose a leader that allows his friends to rob the country?

The Queen has been excellent value for money, she even pays her taxes! And full marks to the British public for standing in the rain to pay their respects.

RESPECT IS WHAT IT'S ABOUT
47 million people ate McDonald's yesterday.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank crazygringo for this useful post:
  #51  
Old 05.06.2012, 20:16
mimi1981's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: London, previously Basel
Posts: 3,773
Groaned at 21 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 5,792 Times in 2,173 Posts
mimi1981 has a reputation beyond reputemimi1981 has a reputation beyond reputemimi1981 has a reputation beyond reputemimi1981 has a reputation beyond reputemimi1981 has a reputation beyond reputemimi1981 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Patriotism

Quote:
View Post
In 1969 the Australians elected a government, and the outgoing party lost by a small margin. They spent about a week trying to get a coalition together that was larger than the winning party.

On hearing that the government hadn't moved out, she sent the govenor of Australia round to throw him out! Some Australians were really shocked at the time, as they had gorgotten that she is their head of state.

Queen Elizabeth II is separately and equally monarch of 16 sovereign countries sometimes known collectively as the Commonwealth realms
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...and_government

She is also head of the UK armed forces and the Church of England.

So yeah, you are right, she is just a figure head and has no real power.

I like the monarchy as they are incorruptible, and constant, and they cost the British tax payer very little, something like 2 CHF per person per year.
But we're not talking about the pro's/con's of the royal family or the cost of them. The OP simply referred to patriotism and why people feel proud of their country. I disagree a lot with some of the royal stuff but if one family can unite a whole country like that then it can't be a bad thing surely.

At times like these the UK folk need something to celebrate more than ever. In fact, we all do!

Sorry if I misunderstood your post.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 05.06.2012, 20:30
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Patriotism

Quote:
View Post
In 1969 the Australians elected a government, and the outgoing party lost by a small margin. They spent about a week trying to get a coalition together that was larger than the winning party.

On hearing that the government hadn't moved out, she sent the govenor of Australia round to throw him out! Some Australians were really shocked at the time, as they had gorgotten that she is their head of state.
What, she did that TWICE? I hadn't heard about the constitutional crisis of '69 before (actually, I thought John Gorton's prime ministership straddled the turn of the decade without any gubernatorial interference). All that outrage -- and then she did it again (in 1975) ... we'd be better off without her!!

Quote:
View Post
I like the monarchy as they are incorruptible, and constant, and they cost the British tax payer very little, something like 2 CHF per person per year.
So around CHF 120 million p.a. ... that's rather a lot to house and feed one family. I wonder how many refugees the UK could house for that sum ... or how many hospitals and schools they could build ...

And how much public subsidy does one of the world's richest women actually need?

Last edited by Guest; 05.06.2012 at 20:48.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 05.06.2012, 20:44
Sbrinz's Avatar
RIP
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Murten - Morat
Posts: 11,866
Groaned at 563 Times in 354 Posts
Thanked 11,548 Times in 5,941 Posts
Sbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Patriotism

So you Australians don't like being held to the "constitution" very much?

Again I ask the question "What alternative do you suggest?" If you are going to elect a president you lose the continuity, and also the people that get elected are the ones that politicise the best, and these are not necessarily the best presidents.

Do you really want a new president every 5 years, where only the richest can afford to get elected? The Bush dynasty did a lot of harm to the US image abroad, and before them was someone who was caught taking BJs in the office!
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Sbrinz for this useful post:
  #54  
Old 05.06.2012, 20:49
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Patriotism

Quote:
View Post
So you Australians don't like being held to the "constitution" very much?

Again I ask the question "What alternative do you suggest?" If you are going to elect a president you lose the continuity, and also the people that get elected are the ones that politicise the best, and these are not necessarily the best presidents.

Do you really want a new president every 5 years, where only the richest can afford to get elected? The Bush dynasty did a lot of harm to the US image abroad, and before them was someone who was caught taking BJs in the office!
Lol. At least we have a constitution -- unlike the UK.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #55  
Old 05.06.2012, 20:50
Sbrinz's Avatar
RIP
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Murten - Morat
Posts: 11,866
Groaned at 563 Times in 354 Posts
Thanked 11,548 Times in 5,941 Posts
Sbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Patriotism

Quote:
So around CHF 120 million p.a. ... that's rather a lot to house and feed one family. I wonder how many refugees the UK could house for that sum ... or how many hospitals and schools they could build ...

And how much public subsidy does one of the world's richest women actually need?
Now you are being silly. You know that the German president and the French president cost a lot more than that. You also know that the royals bring in billions from the tourists. They are a great little money earner, even without the photo royalties from Bild and Paris Match.
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank Sbrinz for this useful post:
  #56  
Old 05.06.2012, 20:53
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Patriotism

Uluru, the Sydney Opera House and the Sydney Harbour Bridge bring in billions for Australia, and we pay them hardly anything.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #57  
Old 05.06.2012, 21:10
NotAllThere's Avatar
Modulo 2
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 14,547
Groaned at 280 Times in 239 Posts
Thanked 21,877 Times in 8,860 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Patriotism

Quote:
View Post
I'm glad you are happy under a monarchy...
What do you mean by "under a monarchy"?

Being against or in favour of the monarchy is one thing. You could argue that they're a drain on public finance, that they don't add anything to the UK, that the whole concept doesn't fit in with modern living. But arguing that somehow it's wrong because we're under them? That's just silly. I'd suggest reading a few history books - you start with studying Magna Carta.

The Queen has NO political power, cannot make policy, cannot veto laws, cannot change the government. The royal system exists solely at the sufference of the people. If the people wanted rid of the royals, they would be gotten rid of. At the moment, most people in the UK don't want rid of the royals, we're quite happy with them. The fact of their continued existence shows that the people approve.
__________________
Down with racism. Long live miscegenation!
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post:
  #58  
Old 05.06.2012, 21:12
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 1,983
Groaned at 69 Times in 52 Posts
Thanked 5,074 Times in 1,802 Posts
crazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Patriotism

Quote:
View Post
So you Australians don't like being held to the "constitution" very much?

Again I ask the question "What alternative do you suggest?" If you are going to elect a president you lose the continuity, and also the people that get elected are the ones that politicise the best, and these are not necessarily the best presidents.

Do you really want a new president every 5 years, where only the richest can afford to get elected? The Bush dynasty did a lot of harm to the US image abroad, and before them was someone who was caught taking BJs in the office!
errrrm...

we elect a President every 4 years, and the President is actually relatively immaterial when it comes to governance of the country (which is handled by the Legislature and, unfortunately, more and more the Judiciary). also, despite the best efforts of previous generations, most governance is still handled locally, either at the State or municipal level.

you Brits are more than welcome to continue to idolize your royal families, of course.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank crazygringo for this useful post:
  #59  
Old 05.06.2012, 21:19
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Bern
Posts: 83
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 43 Times in 23 Posts
rachelryan1978 is considered knowledgeablerachelryan1978 is considered knowledgeablerachelryan1978 is considered knowledgeable
Re: Patriotism

So much jealousy from the folks without their own Royals!
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank rachelryan1978 for this useful post:
  #60  
Old 05.06.2012, 22:06
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 1,983
Groaned at 69 Times in 52 Posts
Thanked 5,074 Times in 1,802 Posts
crazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Patriotism

Quote:
View Post
Now you are being silly. You know that the German president and the French president cost a lot more than that. You also know that the royals bring in billions from the tourists. They are a great little money earner, even without the photo royalties from Bild and Paris Match.
true dat, the royal family is one of the largest British exports to the US, save for maybe The Beatles and Newcastle. yummy, Newcastle.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT +2. The time now is 18:31.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0