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  #141  
Old 08.06.2012, 22:50
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Re: I need to leave CH

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I really have to agree with you there 100%!! I miss Germany like crazy... literally every day! Somehow, Switzerland is so foreign in comparison. I never had problems with the locals there... here, I feel like they look at me like I have 3 eyes and horns. At Germany, it somehow felt like home. I wish you the best of luck
I reveal a secret to you. You are NOT in Switzerland, you are living in GRAUBüNDEN. And real Graubündner regard people from Zürich or Basel as a kind of foreigners, accepted and tolerated as either tourists or soldiers, but loved most when leaving them ! Places like Bregenz, Konstanz, Zürich, Basel, Strassburg, Stuttgart and München are very similar, while people in Graubünden regard people from those places as having 3 eyes and horns. If you however try seriously and get the "trick" with the Bündner, they will at some point start to accept you for real and become pleasant and jolly people
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  #142  
Old 08.06.2012, 23:02
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Re: I need to leave CH

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Everyone simplifies things by stating it's discrimination or racism...It's the easy route to escape from history.
The fact is:
- Switzerland is not know for having participated on the state level at least, to the transatlantic slavery ships.
- Switzerland is not know for having participated on the state level at least, to the pan african arabic trades of slave (way before the transatlatic slavery and still valid today).
- Swiss people are private people and they like their way of life: they are surrounded by big imperialist nations that have done wrongs all over the world, and now are importing people from abroad and causing tensions in their own country. Why would the Swiss accept that on their soil?

I am going to work in Switzerland soon and having worked with them before, I can say they are genuanly NOT racist or discriminatory people. Far from it. They just don't want to see their life style affected by people who come to their country.

Plus, they have the right to ask if foreigners are living on their money...it's their money. In big nations, people forgot that the money the goverment spend is theirs.
http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/Home/Arc...ml?cid=3472130

So what if 'the government' may not have officially sanctioned it. It was still heavily funded obviously with Swiss money.
Surely, 'the people' must have known about this and surely they'd have demanded that 'the government' (i.e. themselves) do something about it.
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  #143  
Old 08.06.2012, 23:14
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Re: I need to leave CH

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Swiss can't handle criticism.
That's a trap, right?
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  #144  
Old 08.06.2012, 23:18
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Re: I need to leave CH

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I was curious about Turkish schools in Germany so I googled and this popped up. Headline says: Erdogan, Merkel agree on Turkish schools in Germany. Erdogan said he was pleased with German Chancellor Angela Merkel's remarks on future Turkish schools in Germany. You can easily google the article.
...
I know of that statement and the story behind, and find it partially understandible.
However, until now there is not such thing.


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There are ... Greek ... schools in Germany.
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... past time (for most of them).


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Many more International schools in Germany than in Switzerland.
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Probably not proportional, however.


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What happens? Nothing. I know people who live in germany, don't speak a word of German, send their kids to International schools, drive big cars, complains all the time and shops abroad like in US and bring all the goods back to Germany. I don't know what you think happens in Germany but as far as I know Nothing happens to them.
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My point is that German common sense is very sceptical about e.g. Turkish immigration and "segregation" and is quite intolerant of stuff like that, but some Germans do the same thing in CH. Like some US and UK and other citizens.

Self-segregation and Goldküste-ghettos is fine with me, no problem.
But I get a little bit concerned if a part of those people claim Germany to be a cradle of humanity in foreigners' matters. Which is a terrible lie.


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After your clarification, I understand that you find Germans' behaviour is not aiming at integration in Switzerland, this being exactly what they demand as German voters in Germany.
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No, I didn't mean "all Germans" in CH. Only a - however influent - minor part is not willing of any integration.



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Immigrants to Germany better not to behave as some Germans do in CH, that's my point.
And what is your point exactly?
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That once you got your permit, official Switzerland treats foreigners far better than Germany would ever do, not to speak about what normal local nationals do (the Swiss are generally much more tolerant, also the Swiss German population). Blocher is a crybaby in comparison to Thilo Sarrazin.




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Swiss peole, just as the OP wrote - are on average convinced that the Swiss way has to be the best one. So foreigners are on average some sort of underlings. In the past they came whenever cheap labor was in short supply... all those Italians, Spanish, Portugese - they were all cheap labour doing the jobs the locals did not like. Just like the Eastern German waiters in Zurich.
And suddenly there is a wave of a different sort of immigrants: They speak the official language better than the locals, are better educated and have international experiences... they manage to get the jobs the locals want and outperform them. Instead of trying to up their game and get competitive do the Swiss that suddenly have German managers prefer to fall back to some old nationalistic patterns.
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Might be one of the factors that lead towards a conflictual situation, however was not my point. Again my point was that in CH foreigners are better off than in Germany, by far. And that German public opinion regarding Turks and Greek citizens is all but in favor. Not to talk about Arabs, Kosovo and other citizens.



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You are spot on with the remarks on Turkish in Germany - the problem is that most of them have a very low education. The ones who manage to make it and graduate from university get over the years sick and tired of the stereotypes they face every day - 40% of high educated Turkish leave Germany within 10 years after graduation. Given the costs for the universities does Germany frankly lose money because of the backward way some part of the society behaves. Switzerland behaves in every imaginable way even more backwards - this is simply bad for the Swiss themselves, if they see it or not.
Again you are doing it: You reduce human beings and nationalities to an economical issue and surplus for the country as an explanation why Turkish people might suffer from German hatred. Why should respect towards human beings be conditioned by a bottom line? That's it. That's my criticism.

Last edited by Bucentaure; 08.06.2012 at 23:31.
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  #145  
Old 08.06.2012, 23:20
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Re: I need to leave CH

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It's interesting to see that many people have similar impressions and experiences to my own.

1) As a US citizen, my bank (three letters) has made it very clear that I am (just barely) tolerated as a customer. I do not have free choice of whom I may deal with there (a friend of mine is a customer rep, but she isn't allowed to serve US citizens). And since I own a property in Germany which was financed through the same bank, I'm even less desirable (they have terminated my mortgage effective next month, so I'm currently refinancing the property through a German bank, but I'm taking a huge hit because of the weak Euro at the moment).

2) Vehicle repairs - on those few occasions where I did repairs myself, I've been fortunate to have experienced friends around to help me. Regardless - most of the repair shops I've dealt with wouldn't be offended if I explained what I did and what still needs to be done - I think that's just talk from people who would NEVER get their hands dirty anyway. If the shop DID give me crap about doing some repairs myself, that would be the last time I ever stepped foot in that garage.

3) Racism and Swiss nationalism - it exists. Accept it or leave, because you aren't going to be able to change it.

I grew up in California - I lived there for 25 years before moving to Europe 22 years ago. I lived in Germany for 12 years before moving to Switzerland, mostly to escape the bloodthirsty German tax authorities. After 12 years living in Switzerland, my wife and I are planning to move back to Germany later this year.

My wife (a German citizen) has had very little luck meeting people in our town, so our apartment is just a place to sleep, but not "home". Since we bought our property in Germany last year, she's had more contact with the neighbors there than she had with our Swiss neighbors in the 7 years prior. There certainly is a difference between German towns and Swiss towns - at least in terms of neighborhood relations.
A) Difficult to understand why you and your wife moved to a place like Ramlinsburg where for sure even people from Basel-Stadt are as much distrusted as Germans

B) You are no longer liked by your bank not because that bank suddenly DISlikes Americans, but because the USA government tries to prosecute any Swiss banker who does business with US citizens ! The 3-letter-name-bank had to issue a warning to all employees with a signature NOT to travel to the USA on holidays for the foreseeable future
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  #146  
Old 08.06.2012, 23:33
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Re: I need to leave CH

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I leave my car open in Switzerland, I leave my Vespa in the street and on occasions I have left my keys in the Vespa and it s never been touched, I do not know of anyone to have had a bike stolen here.
In Germany you have to lock your Vespa with a chain round the wheel to prevent it getting stolen.

Let me get this right, you come here not speaking the language and expect to have lessons paid for?

I have heard it all now and by the sounds of it Switzerland is better off without you, poor Munich, I am sure you will turn on it too.

the only place my home has ever been broken into is here in Switzerland, and my native city of Detroit, Michigan is not exactly a beacon of safety. of course, I don't blame the Swiss for this unfortunate circumstance - in fact, since the criminals were "Lithuanian Ohne Ausweis", I am seriously considering leaving my wife, marrying a Swiss national, and then naturalizing...

...solely so that I can cast my vote for every SVP candidate available as soon as I am able to vote.

please don't tell my wife, she's a lovely, lovely lady but sadly is only a US citizen.
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  #147  
Old 09.06.2012, 00:03
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Re: I need to leave CH

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Blocher is a crybaby in comparison to Thilo Sarrazin.
I challenge that. Blocher has been active in politics for ages and has been doing real harm for a long time. We are living with the consequences of it. Sarrazin is just a businessman who makes money on media manipulation with topoi that has been discussed to death in every cocktail party and every Beiz/bistrot. It works wonders but that's no Blocher in terms of actions and consequences.

You know what? I have a hobby for which I am with a Swiss group once a week. They vote for left parties or green liberal, but they also openly criticize SVP for everything,(actually, mostly for being a Zürcher party). They make xenophobic comments all the time, none of which aimed at me but still, they truly believe they are better than Balkan people, Turkish or Asians, southern Europeans and despise the so called international expats' attitude of building an isolated bubble. It never ends. You'd never guess that when you talk with them one to one.
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  #148  
Old 09.06.2012, 00:10
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Re: I need to leave CH

i totally agree ...good luck in germany!!
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  #149  
Old 09.06.2012, 00:16
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Re: I need to leave CH

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Blocher is a crybaby in comparison to Thilo Sarrazin.
Sarrazin sells books and he sells them well - that's it. But Sarrazin was never elected to any position in any election - contrary to Mr.Blocher and his party, which determined the political agenda in Switzerland for the last 10-15 years.
When demagogues actually are elected to some parliament/city council in Germany they usually last no more than one term (remember Judge Schill in Hamburg ?). Look at the presence of right-wing parties on a national level in Germany compared to almost every other country in Europe - there is none.
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  #150  
Old 09.06.2012, 00:50
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Re: I need to leave CH

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Look at the presence of right-wing parties on a national level in Germany compared to almost every other country in Europe - there is none.
There is none because Merkel (from a "Bonner Modell's" view) shifted right. And already SPD had shifted right before, now again back left (what hurts Grüne, die Linke and Piraten).

However this has only partially to do with public opinion. (Luckily?) no real congruence with political party system.


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Blocher is a crybaby in comparison to Thilo Sarrazin.
I challenge that. Blocher has been active in politics for ages and has been doing real harm for a long time.
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Sarrazin sells books and he sells them well - that's it. But Sarrazin was never elected to any position in any election - contrary to Mr.Blocher and his party, which determined the political agenda in Switzerland for the last 10-15 years.
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Might be; but - probably I have a short memory so I may got that wrong - besides Minarett- and Ausschaffungsinitiative had no real success on this issue.
Many Swiss feel ashame for Blocher and might state something like "He and his party might have some point there and then, but one simply cannot agree on everything.".

Sarrazin is no politician, right,

but - in the opposite of what Blocher failed in - he is proclaimed the new pope of common sense in Germany, and also once leftish newspapers talk about some issues like foreigners unwilling of integration, Germany Goldesel of everything, Greek cheaters and Spanish latin laziness, the PIGS (like the Jewish "marranos"), Goldman Sachs and Jewish Wall Street and further on.

And all that despite of Sarrazin claiming genetic predestination or degeneration of intelligence, Jewish genom and who knows what else (and people find even excuses for that e.g. by sighing "Well, Thilo simply is no König Silberzunge, he's no good in public speech." Sounds in my ears almost like "Wenn das der Führer wüsste.")

The problem is his agenda setting. Even people (I have watched Jauchs discussion between Steinbrück and Sarrazin) from the left relate to him as a reference, feeling that they have at least partially to give him some credit (that Germany is such a great country and Greece is so rotten, Multikulti failed, Erdogan an invador, Germans so good people and the others so bad ... 15 years ago that wouldn't have been possible ... remember Leitkultur and all the strange people who arrived afterwards? Walser, Sloterdijk, now also Grass ... I mean they all got tumors or what happened?).


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You know what? I have a hobby for which I am with a Swiss group once a week. They vote for left parties or green liberal, but they also openly criticize SVP for everything,(actually, mostly for being a Zürcher party). They make xenophobic comments all the time, none of which aimed at me but still, they truly believe they are better than Balkan people, Turkish or Asians, southern Europeans and despise the so called international expats' attitude of building an isolated bubble. It never ends. You'd never guess that when you talk with them one to one.
Strange folks. Or strange perceived group pressure, I'd say.
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  #151  
Old 09.06.2012, 01:40
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Re: I need to leave CH

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Strange folks. Or strange perceived group pressure, I'd say.
I don't think it's so simple, unfortunately. My point would be that there is no necessary connection between liberalism in one area of the political debate and liberalism in other areas. When it comes to national pride, they are very touchy, but they still want liberal ethics in social questions for people they feel close to. Their reason is left, their feelings are conservative. One is used to see it the other way around. It's more or less the same at my work place. Just, you never know how people perceive themselves, trapped in that contradiction. It can go either way, and you end up with Swiss voters choosing opposite parties for the same reasons.
Nice people, really, but they regret the end of the border controls since the small but visible criminality from the other side of the border has increased. It's not because it's criminality, but because it's visible. They don't see me when I belong to the group, as they don't see many other foreigners and immigrants... but when life forces them to face a reality that does not correspond to their image, they reject. Not the actual persons, but the image that doesn't look like the one they have in their head. When I hear what national propaganda people are exposed to in the educational system (in any country), no wonder they react like that... The falling tree in the wood doesn't make noise if we're not there to hear it. But any twig on the road is a catastrophe because it's not supposed to be on the road.
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  #152  
Old 09.06.2012, 09:54
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Re: I need to leave CH

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the only place my home has ever been broken into is here in Switzerland, and my native city of Detroit, Michigan is not exactly a beacon of safety. of course, I don't blame the Swiss for this unfortunate circumstance - in fact, since the criminals were "Lithuanian Ohne Ausweis", I am seriously considering leaving my wife, marrying a Swiss national, and then naturalizing...

...solely so that I can cast my vote for every SVP candidate available as soon as I am able to vote.

please don't tell my wife, she's a lovely, lovely lady but sadly is only a US citizen.
Do NOT forget
- that SVP slogans do not catch criminals
- that the SVP hinders/hindered expansion of police for costs reason
- that anti foreignish legislation does NOT hinder illegal crime-tourists
- that the ancien régime of border control was a proven failure
- that SVP fought against the Dublin agreement which helps police
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  #153  
Old 09.06.2012, 10:04
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Re: I need to leave CH

I'd like to come back to the first post.

I really feel that there is 51 users who have "thanked" the OP for the wrong reasons.

When I see the whole thread and read all comments, I have a strong feeling that his post was a "pot-pourri", a container that everyone filled with their own "difficult experiences" in Switzerland.

First I'd like to remember how technically that was very incorrect from him to entitle a chapter "ingrained racism" when he was illustrating with "economical examples". Don't get me wrong and don't confuse 2 simple things: I am not denying any "difficulties with outsiders" (what most of you immediately call racism, xenophobia, SOS, HEEeeelp call the army!!!) but the fact there is that was a totally wrong example. Simple on the basis that they have the same behavior for anyone, not only "blacks, yellows, or blue people".

Then, you all go easy on the Swiss Racism, etc... All complain how difficult it is etc... But you forget a few things:
- Tagging someone a racist is not helping, on the contrary: you are simply doing the same than them (rejection based on something: ie your "blacks" are the "racists": I hate racist they are nasty, racist are dumb, racist are useless for society...)Not so open minded and totally useless.

-When I read most post on this forum and compare to those "thanks" to that topic I only have that I mind: are you serious?? You dare to critic the Swiss with that? I am sorry but are you really showing much of an integrating behavior here???
How many posts on the "spanish meet spanish", "singaporean meet singaporeant", I want brown sugar, its much better than any local sugar I miss it so much, how it's good back home, how Swiss are dumb, english meetups, etc... Also how many don't speak the language after 10 years???

I don't think you are perfect example of "integration" although I agree that it's only a forum and not the daily basis behavior ( I hope for you).

-Moreover about the OP calling racism. Ok he is Asian looking. But not every critics towards him are maded "based on his race". Asian can be jerks too and can receive critics based on that. But I observe that in those situations the "target" very often revert back to "racism" not accepting a second that the critics are based simply because they were jerks.

-There is so much fatalism on how it's screwed, how some will "leave", etc...
Yes, leave! If what you can do is to post how Swiss are racists, then do us all a favour. Do leave!
For the one who remains, please try to accept that it's not easy (not easy everywhere in the world but here it's not particularly easy). But don't play the victims every time you receive a "nationality" related comment. Fight back when the person is seriously being rude, but otherwise just let it go! The Swiss have that tendency to do that with every one (even white).
And best: they do that to "themselves"! (swiss german Vs Swiss italians vs Swiss french) It's a cultural trait, so observe it and assimilate it. Or start to wonder why you reject a different culture.

-Next, the current context in Switzerland is unique: still in the crisis, country being filled with migrants *many illegals* and the population are discovering the negative effects of some part of illegal migration: crimes, drug dealing, etc... Yes they don't like that and probably blame every colored men for that... Is that such a crime? It's all recent so they might be a bit more inclined to worry. But are they to blame for that? is that acceptable to fear in your own streets because that illegal migration bring them troubles? Is that acceptable that they can not do anything about it (human rights, inefficient police, impotent laws, blablabla)??
I don't think so- let's not defend them for anything but at least let's take that in mind prior to critic them. Think how we can change their view on legit economic migrants.

-Finally I am wondering what you expected before going to Switzerland? a heaven on earth, offering high salary and low tax, ready to lay the red carpet for you? They are a country geographically and historically enclaved in Europe's higher mountains. They are being protective for centuries, and seeing the state of their society (economy, way of life, access to goods, nature, ecology...) It works!

And for those who say it's particularly difficult in Switzerland, I really invite you to visit different cities, countries. Caution: of course not in a business trip, or on a vacation where you going to the beach every day. I have seen much worse than what you said, doing backpacking all over the world.
That combined with business trips, I would have hundreds of worse examples everywhere.

So change your behavior and maybe you will not all have to "leave CH".
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  #154  
Old 09.06.2012, 11:02
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Re: I need to leave CH

Some years ago I got to know a Basler who some years earlier had been on a backpacking holiday miles from anywhere in the Australian outback. One day by chance his group met up with another group in which there was a girl from Zürich.
You won't believe this but these two hit it off together.
Who knows maybe they are still happily married.
Totally unbelievable, but true!!

I reckon if the Inselaffe got that massive chip off his shoulder and gave it another go he would make it too.
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  #155  
Old 09.06.2012, 11:07
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Re: I need to leave CH

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I'd like to come back to the first post.

I really feel that there is 51 users who have "thanked" the OP for the wrong reasons.

+ 1,000 words

So change your behavior and maybe you will not all have to "leave CH".
Feel better now?
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  #156  
Old 09.06.2012, 11:45
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Re: I need to leave CH

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Feel better now?
Thanks for your concerns.

I don't feel "better" because I have never felt "bad" about that topic!

Actually I am not the one felling bad/frustrated/unhappy/annoyed, and I am not the one "having to leave" CH...



Obviously I have had some issues here in CH, including quite annoying one. But I was always able to identify them, find the correct reaction (or action) and solve them or overcome them.

What I wrote above is more "advice"/observations to make those help those bad/frustrated/unhappy/annoyed see their "problem" under a different light...
More like an attempt to help them.

Of course that will only work for those open minded and intelligent enough to reflect on it. For the others, they will be satisfied only by pity comments and comments reassuring in them in their "victim" behavioral view of their problems. Then there's nothing much we can do about.

That was my 2 cens, erm...rappens.
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Old 09.06.2012, 11:50
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Re: I need to leave CH

I sympathize with a lot of the points being made.

Personally, I've been a foreigner here for over 10 years. But at the end of the day you're living on swiss soil and therefore the Swiss have a right to expect you to meet their traditions, culture and engrain yourself in Swiss society.
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  #158  
Old 09.06.2012, 12:20
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Re: I need to leave CH

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Sarrazin sells books and he sells them well - that's it. But Sarrazin was never elected to any position in any election - contrary to Mr.Blocher and his party, which determined the political agenda in Switzerland for the last 10-15 years.
When demagogues actually are elected to some parliament/city council in Germany they usually last no more than one term (remember Judge Schill in Hamburg ?). Look at the presence of right-wing parties on a national level in Germany compared to almost every other country in Europe - there is none.
A) Ever heard about the Free State of Bavaria ? The CSU of Bavaria is 99% on the same line as the SVP
B) No, the SVP in the past 20 or 30 years did NOT "determine the political agenda" in Switzerland. It did win some votes, but SP and FDP won more votes than the SVP, and DID determine the political agenda. I in 1992 was in favour of the EEA but now think that the Bilaterals are better. And they were launched by FDP Bundesrat Jean-Pascal Delamuraz AGAINST the SVP and pushed ahead by SP Bundesrat Micheline Calmy-Rey.
C) Against the "SVP-agenda", Switzerland is member of the Schengen-zone, the Dublin-agreement and ECAC (part of EU)
D) The Front National in France has been heavy for decades now and under charming Martine LePen may well be up for higher roles, and do not forget that her father, the FN super demagogue and "torturer of Algiers" of the 1950ies, only narrowly failed to win the presidency
E) the coalition-parties of top-demagogue Mr Berlusconi (his own party, the neo-Fascists and the Lega Nord) were as far right as the SVP, very present for decades, and even governed Italy for years
F) back to the CSU, the "sister" of the SVP. This party became top important in Bavaria already back in the 50ies. I liked Mr Waigel and respected Mr Strauss, but Stoiber is of the same sort as Mr Blocher
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Old 09.06.2012, 12:45
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Re: I need to leave CH

this sentence right here reveals a lot more about the foundation of your opinion than you likely realize.
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Old 09.06.2012, 13:03
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Re: I need to leave CH

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I'd like to come back to the first post.

I really feel that there is 51 users who have "thanked" the OP for the wrong reasons.

When I see the whole thread and read all comments, I have a strong feeling that his post was a "pot-pourri", a container that everyone filled with their own "difficult experiences" in Switzerland.

First I'd like to remember how technically that was very incorrect from him to entitle a chapter "ingrained racism" when he was illustrating with "economical examples". Don't get me wrong and don't confuse 2 simple things: I am not denying any "difficulties with outsiders" (what most of you immediately call racism, xenophobia, SOS, HEEeeelp call the army!!!) but the fact there is that was a totally wrong example. Simple on the basis that they have the same behavior for anyone, not only "blacks, yellows, or blue people".

Then, you all go easy on the Swiss Racism, etc... All complain how difficult it is etc... But you forget a few things:
- Tagging someone a racist is not helping, on the contrary: you are simply doing the same than them (rejection based on something: ie your "blacks" are the "racists": I hate racist they are nasty, racist are dumb, racist are useless for society...)Not so open minded and totally useless.

-When I read most post on this forum and compare to those "thanks" to that topic I only have that I mind: are you serious?? You dare to critic the Swiss with that? I am sorry but are you really showing much of an integrating behavior here???
How many posts on the "spanish meet spanish", "singaporean meet singaporeant", I want brown sugar, its much better than any local sugar I miss it so much, how it's good back home, how Swiss are dumb, english meetups, etc... Also how many don't speak the language after 10 years???

I don't think you are perfect example of "integration" although I agree that it's only a forum and not the daily basis behavior ( I hope for you).

-Moreover about the OP calling racism. Ok he is Asian looking. But not every critics towards him are maded "based on his race". Asian can be jerks too and can receive critics based on that. But I observe that in those situations the "target" very often revert back to "racism" not accepting a second that the critics are based simply because they were jerks.

-There is so much fatalism on how it's screwed, how some will "leave", etc...
Yes, leave! If what you can do is to post how Swiss are racists, then do us all a favour. Do leave!
For the one who remains, please try to accept that it's not easy (not easy everywhere in the world but here it's not particularly easy). But don't play the victims every time you receive a "nationality" related comment. Fight back when the person is seriously being rude, but otherwise just let it go! The Swiss have that tendency to do that with every one (even white).
And best: they do that to "themselves"! (swiss german Vs Swiss italians vs Swiss french) It's a cultural trait, so observe it and assimilate it. Or start to wonder why you reject a different culture.

-Next, the current context in Switzerland is unique: still in the crisis, country being filled with migrants *many illegals* and the population are discovering the negative effects of some part of illegal migration: crimes, drug dealing, etc... Yes they don't like that and probably blame every colored men for that... Is that such a crime? It's all recent so they might be a bit more inclined to worry. But are they to blame for that? is that acceptable to fear in your own streets because that illegal migration bring them troubles? Is that acceptable that they can not do anything about it (human rights, inefficient police, impotent laws, blablabla)??
I don't think so- let's not defend them for anything but at least let's take that in mind prior to critic them. Think how we can change their view on legit economic migrants.

-Finally I am wondering what you expected before going to Switzerland? a heaven on earth, offering high salary and low tax, ready to lay the red carpet for you? They are a country geographically and historically enclaved in Europe's higher mountains. They are being protective for centuries, and seeing the state of their society (economy, way of life, access to goods, nature, ecology...) It works!

And for those who say it's particularly difficult in Switzerland, I really invite you to visit different cities, countries. Caution: of course not in a business trip, or on a vacation where you going to the beach every day. I have seen much worse than what you said, doing backpacking all over the world.
That combined with business trips, I would have hundreds of worse examples everywhere.

So change your behavior and maybe you will not all have to "leave CH".
chasch du au no niid Englisch, oder?



fyi, if someone assumes that every person of color is in Switzerland because they are looking to freeload on social welfare programs, that is racist and it is wrong. it doesn't matter if the "economic" concern about freeloaders is valid or not. and there are very few things I find more distasteful than the "argument" that racist behavior should ever be excused - if a Chinese person (I say "Chinese" because "Asian" and similar tags are silly) is a complete asshole and you respond by calling him a derogatory term for people of Chinese descent, then you deserve to get your ass beat for being a racist, plain and simple.
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