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  #161  
Old 09.06.2012, 13:04
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Re: I need to leave CH

Sad situation, i think it would be different for him if he was on the French side...I dont think that he would want to leave...
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  #162  
Old 09.06.2012, 13:07
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Re: I need to leave CH

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chasch du au no niid Englisch, oder?

Swiss German either. Look at the profile.
I can't speak nor write correct English either, if that is a requirement for posting, make sure it's written in the rules of the forum. Otherwise, just don't read posts by us, poor uneducated retarded bad in English king shorteners.

General comment: "racist" as a concept is a conclusion. In any reasoning, if you want to make it a premise, you have to provide the reasoning that leads to it first.

Last edited by Faltrad; 09.06.2012 at 13:12. Reason: general comment.
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  #163  
Old 09.06.2012, 13:09
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Re: I need to leave CH

To begin at the bottom. If somebody is embarassed and angry to that extent it may be time for leaving. I still remember how happy I was after having served "RS" in the Swiss Army for 4 months and having the chance to "escape" for 3 months to London. As I at that time have had more than enough of that "patriotism" behind me.

Over to South Africa, a country I have never been to. What I however refer to is the point that South Africa since the end of Apartheid goes through what most former colonial areas went through and that is the process of "DE-colonialisation". Race in that country may or may not play THE leading role (you possibly know better) but the point is that it is that "members" of the "colonialists" are generally encouraged to leave, AND that it is tried to get "natives" into leading jobs even if their qualifications are not exactly what is looked for. In many former colonies and protectorates it lead to being failry dark skinned "colonialists" being ousted in favour of fairly "white" native people.

I don't know whether in South Africa, your linkage with the "former rule" plays an important role ? as it did in many former colonies and protectorates.
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  #164  
Old 09.06.2012, 13:12
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Re: I need to leave CH

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Swiss German either. Look at the profile.
I can't speak nor write correct English either, if that is a requirement for posting, make sure it's written in the rules of the forum. Otherwise, just don't read posts by us, poor uneducated retarded bad in English king shorteners.
I may not like some of your posts, Faltrad, but it's not because I couldn't understand your written English. although I do appreciate the irony of you taking the piss out of a native-English speaker for being too pedantic about language issues.

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  #165  
Old 09.06.2012, 13:18
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Re: I need to leave CH

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chasch du au no niid Englisch, oder?



fyi, if someone assumes that every person of color is in Switzerland because they are looking to freeload on social welfare programs, that is racist and it is wrong. it doesn't matter if the "economic" concern about freeloaders is valid or not. and there are very few things I find more distasteful than the "argument" that racist behavior should ever be excused - if a Chinese person (I say "Chinese" because "Asian" and similar tags are silly) is a complete asshole and you respond by calling him a derogatory term for people of Chinese descent, then you deserve to get your ass beat for being a racist, plain and simple.
an "East Asian" can be Korean, Japanese, Chinese, Philippino, Vietnamese, Thai, Cambodian, Lao, etc ...... while of course "Asian" IS rubbish indeed
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  #166  
Old 09.06.2012, 13:20
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Re: I need to leave CH

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although I do appreciate the irony of you taking the piss out of a native-English speaker for being too pedantic about language issues.
It's all right, but I am pedantic about everything BUT language here. If I had to correct people every time they are incorrect in French or German, that would take too much time than I want to spend here. I don't correct other people's language, only reasoning. If I'd made fun of people's German or French the same way some members here make fun of us non-English speakers, I would have been banned long time ago.

To the original poster: I was fed up with a country once. Actually, fed up with the life I had there. I left. Nothing wrong with that and that country is still beautiful and a nice place to be for other people. No big deal.
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  #167  
Old 09.06.2012, 13:38
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Re: I need to leave CH

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I sympathize with a lot of the points being made.

Personally, I've been a foreigner here for over 10 years. But at the end of the day you're living on swiss soil and therefore the Swiss have a right to expect you to meet their traditions, culture and engrain yourself in Swiss society.
When all is said and done, this is my attitude too.

I've spent around 45 years in the UK listening to people complaining about how immigration has ruined the country. Almost every nation across the world is trying to deal with the same phenomenon. Never before in history has there been so much migration of people, and most of us feel some uncertainty about it.

I totally understand why many Swiss express nervousness and even outright hostility. It's how many Brits behave in Britain, Germans in Germany, Australians in Oz, and so on around the world. At the root of this is a worry that a settled, successful culture is being descended upon by an army of economic scavengers. We created this, goes the often unspoken argument -- what right do these strangers have to move here and benefit from it? With gradual, controlled immigration, such anxieties can be managed and calmed. With spikes in immigration, and particularly at a time of great economic uncertainty across the globe, these emotions are very hard to marshal.

Some may object to this attitude, but that's like objecting to cold weather. Deal with it. Fear of being invaded is a root human emotion, and some see increasing waves of immigrants as a sort of back-door invasion.

I am a guest in this beautiful country, and I do not feel I should have any privileges. I don't think they should teach me German at their expense, for instance. Whether my life is a success here or not is up to me. It is for me to align with their culture and their laws. All things considered, Switzerland has been welcoming to me and I feel far more gratitude at the kindness I've experienced than resentment when things go wrong.
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  #168  
Old 09.06.2012, 14:52
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Re: I need to leave CH

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I sympathize with a lot of the points being made.

Personally, I've been a foreigner here for over 10 years. But at the end of the day you're living on swiss soil and therefore the Swiss have a right to expect you to meet their traditions, culture and engrain yourself in Swiss society.
When all is said and done, this is my attitude too.
...
Never before in history has there been so much migration of people, and most of us feel some uncertainty about it.
...
No, that's not true, for most countries, Switzerland included (only about 2 years ago ZH reached the same proportion of German immigration again it detained in the beginning of the 20th century, and +- immigration rates in BS, GE, Lugano, Biel, .... are very similar).

Migration towards and inside CH and from CH to other places is not new at all (the Alemannic culture itself is an immigrant, which you still hear in persons' names and toponyms). Same for Germany, France, the Netherlands, Turkey, Spain, Russia, Austria ... this is and used to be the norm (even if not continuous, but with periodical interruptions).

What brings me to your first point:

(Im)migrants don't owe anything to the local population but respect of the law, that's all. They are no guests as they have to pay for themselves, furthermore they are free to do what the heck they would like, like anybody else (one of the big differences with Saudi-Arabia).

However, if they seek friends among locals (don't want to digress on who counts as a "local"), a certain interest in language, tradition and culture at least would be nice. However noone expects them to absorb anything, unreflected.
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  #169  
Old 09.06.2012, 15:52
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Re: I need to leave CH

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I'd like to come back to the first post.

I really feel that there is 51 users who have "thanked" the OP for the wrong reasons.

Yes, they're all wrong.
Seriously.
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  #170  
Old 09.06.2012, 18:08
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Re: I need to leave CH

I think the 'thanks' button is being used as a sort of 'we feel your pain' button.
That's how I have always interpreted any thanks I receive...
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  #171  
Old 09.06.2012, 19:47
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Re: I need to leave CH

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Yes, they're all wrong.
Seriously.
That's all you can produce? a sentance in regard of my long post?

You're the reason why this racism thing is never going to end: simply because some people are as dumb as your comment.

And if you would have used your brain, even for a second, you would I have seen that I said "for the wrong reasons" and not "they are wrong".

Anyway, just in case you are "foreigner" in anyway, rest assure that I am saying you are an idiot based on what you said, not on who you are.

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  #172  
Old 09.06.2012, 19:55
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Re: I need to leave CH

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I've spent around 45 years in the UK listening to people complaining about how immigration has ruined the country. Almost every nation across the world is trying to deal with the same phenomenon. Never before in history has there been so much migration of people, and most of us feel some uncertainty about it.
You're wrong, actually. Migration of the different tribes, in successive waves, one after another, has been done throughout the history...but it was dealt with in two ways: run or hit.



But nowadays the borders are settled, and people think they are protected. Well, the ever growing population on this planet...hmm..it's proving again and again that nothing is certain..empires raised and fell, and probably it will always be like that, but only in a more civilized manner.
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  #173  
Old 09.06.2012, 20:59
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Re: I need to leave CH

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Leaving aside the rest of that comment, the words "Internet" and "brave" don't really go together unless you're in a country where you can get shot for posting.
Ok so I am a Novice and chose the wrong words so shoot me!
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  #174  
Old 09.06.2012, 22:08
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Re: I need to leave CH

this (start of) sentence right here reveals a lot more about the foundation of your opinion than you likely realize.
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  #175  
Old 09.06.2012, 22:10
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Re: I need to leave CH

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Sad situation, i think it would be different for him if he was on the French side...I dont think that he would want to leave...
> This may be or not. I simply do not believe so.
> I think it would be different for him if his domicile had been NOT in Wetzikon but in Zürich-Stadt or Glattbrugg or Schlieren oir Dietikon or Kilchberg/Rüschlikon/Thalwil. But also this may be or not.

Whatever, Switzerland never had to build a wall up to prevent people from leaving the country
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Old 09.06.2012, 22:22
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Re: I need to leave CH

DE-COLONIALISATION very often did NOT mean "free land for its natives" but simply an official end to the colonial status of before. The Chinese when trying to get a good position in the RSA of course are in the good position to be outsiders. Africa is not a land but a continent, so you before shaking your head sadly should change either your tobacco or your beverage.
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Old 09.06.2012, 23:44
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Re: I need to leave CH

THIS time your choice of whiskey is good China in present times now becomes the awakening giant, just as Sven Hedin predicted in the 1930ies with his famous book Asien marschiert . That the Chinese are expanding worldwide makes sense.

Of this fighter
Hongdu JL-8
K-8 (Karakorum-8)
Egypt assembled 80 kits and produced 40 under licence. With hundreds of Chinese specialists instructing Egyptian engineers/technicians/workers/pilots ...... just to give ONE example. This has nothing to do with colonialisation but with China gradually becoming a world power. By 2032, everybody will be used to this
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  #178  
Old 10.06.2012, 01:22
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Re: I need to leave CH

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This has nothing to do with colonialisation but with China gradually becoming a world power. By 2032, everybody will be used to this
People are used to this. At least those who have the eyes wide opened..
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  #179  
Old 10.06.2012, 01:57
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Re: I need to leave CH

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A) Ever heard about the Free State of Bavaria ? The CSU of Bavaria is 99% on the same line as the SVP
B) No, the SVP in the past 20 or 30 years did NOT "determine the political agenda" in Switzerland. It did win some votes, but SP and FDP won more votes than the SVP, and DID determine the political agenda. I in 1992 was in favour of the EEA but now think that the Bilaterals are better. And they were launched by FDP Bundesrat Jean-Pascal Delamuraz AGAINST the SVP and pushed ahead by SP Bundesrat Micheline Calmy-Rey.
C) Against the "SVP-agenda", Switzerland is member of the Schengen-zone, the Dublin-agreement and ECAC (part of EU)
D) The Front National in France has been heavy for decades now and under charming Martine LePen may well be up for higher roles, and do not forget that her father, the FN super demagogue and "torturer of Algiers" of the 1950ies, only narrowly failed to win the presidency
E) the coalition-parties of top-demagogue Mr Berlusconi (his own party, the neo-Fascists and the Lega Nord) were as far right as the SVP, very present for decades, and even governed Italy for years
F) back to the CSU, the "sister" of the SVP. This party became top important in Bavaria already back in the 50ies. I liked Mr Waigel and respected Mr Strauss, but Stoiber is of the same sort as Mr Blocher
A) Yes. Actually, I am one of the (well, relatively) few Germans who have the Bavarian citizenship in addition to the German citizenship. I am certainly not a CSU supporter, but today's SVP can only be compared to the CSU in Bavaria as of 10/15/20 years ago. And Bavaria is not Germany, but just a fraction of it.
B) Surely you are referring to the SP and FDP together casting more votes than the SVP ? Last time I checked the ballots the SVP still scored the most votes.
C) I don't think I claimed that the SVP runs Switzerland. However, at least where the Swiss attitude towards foreigners is concerned the agenda is heavily determined by the SVP.
D) + E) Thank you for confirming my point about right-wing parties having a stronghold in many European countries with the notable exception of Germany (and the UK). You could add the Netherlands, Belgium, Norway, Finland, Denmark, Hungary etc. to your list.
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  #180  
Old 10.06.2012, 02:30
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Re: I need to leave CH

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Swiss peole, just as the OP wrote - are on average convinced that the Swiss way has to be the best one.
Probably yes. Just like almost every other country on earth when thinking about themselves in my experience. Particularly the USA.
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