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  #1  
Old 20.08.2012, 17:30
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nationalism in CERN

I was very surprised that I'm not eligible even to apply to work in CERN. Because I'm not in the list of allowed nationalities.
WTF?

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The eligibility of your application is in fact based on your nationality, and not on your place of residence. CERN is an International Organization and is financed by 20 Member States. According to our Rules and Regulations, we are therefore unable to consider applications for staff posts from candidates who do not have one of these nationalities.
For your information, you can find a list of CERN Member States here:
https://ert.cern.ch/browse_www/wd_po...1&p_text_id=10
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Old 20.08.2012, 17:37
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Re: nationalism in CERN

I guess they provide jobs for people coming from the countries that finance it. What's wrong with that?

If you haven't paid your dues, you are not a member.
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Old 20.08.2012, 17:43
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Re: nationalism in CERN

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What's wrong with that?
Everything?

You have excellent, educated, smart people whose countries are not members of CERN and they can contribute GREATLY in the program but they are excluded? Why, is this some rich friends club? I thought CERN was about science and development and not another bureaucratic ****hole made from the EU.
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Old 20.08.2012, 17:50
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Re: nationalism in CERN

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You have excellent, educated, smart people whose countries are not members of CERN and they can contribute GREATLY in the program but they are excluded? Why, is this some rich friends club? I thought CERN was about science and development and not another bureaucratic ****hole made from the EU.
You read my mind! Thank you for understanding.
I never imagine before my nationality can be a problem.
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Old 20.08.2012, 17:54
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Re: nationalism in CERN

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You read my mind! Thank you for understanding.
I never imagine before my nationality can be a problem.
It is sometimes! for "sensitive" works, they can legally restrict nationalities.
Ex: working for defence department in UK, one must have British nationality.

Or even here, it's not possible to work in some jobs.
Or they give free training only if you have Swiss nationality.


I don't know the CERN details, and I don't know if it's discriminatory or not... I guess it depends how they get their money?
Let's say if they are only funded by X or Y countries then I could understand that they only hire X or Y people... a kind of partnership? (ie they pay for a reason)
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  #6  
Old 20.08.2012, 17:55
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Re: nationalism in CERN

Is it only for certain positions or something? I know of Americans who work there, for example, and they aren't on the list.

Edit: I just read the fine print underneath the list:

Staff members, Students and most Fellows recruited by CERN come from the Member States. A limited number of scientists from Non-Member State countries are accepted within the Associates and Fellows Programme.

Romania is a candidate to become a Member State of CERN and therefore Romanian nationals are eligible to apply for Student, Associate and Fellow programmes.

Israel and Serbia are Associate Member States and therefore Israeli & Serbian nationals are eligible to apply for Staff positions as well as Student, Associate and Fellow programmes.

Last edited by Motorschweitz; 20.08.2012 at 18:13. Reason: read the rest of the linked page
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Old 20.08.2012, 18:09
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Re: nationalism in CERN

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Everything?

You have excellent, educated, smart people whose countries are not members of CERN and they can contribute GREATLY in the program but they are excluded? Why, is this some rich friends club? I thought CERN was about science and development and not another bureaucratic ****hole made from the EU.

Government money always comes with a price. Why would they finance jobs for other nationalities if there are enough of their own looking for jobs. Judging by recent events it would appear that the strategy is working ok.
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Old 20.08.2012, 18:10
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Re: nationalism in CERN

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I never imagine before my nationality can be a problem.
What planet have you been on until now????
Nationality is virtually always an issue when you are looking for a job other than in your own country....
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Old 20.08.2012, 18:16
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Re: nationalism in CERN

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What planet have you been on until now????
I'm from Mars
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Old 20.08.2012, 18:22
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Re: nationalism in CERN

Isn't it the same with ESA?
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Old 20.08.2012, 18:33
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Re: nationalism in CERN

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Everything?

You have excellent, educated, smart people whose countries are not members of CERN and they can contribute GREATLY in the program but they are excluded? Why, is this some rich friends club? I thought CERN was about science and development and not another bureaucratic ****hole made from the EU.
Maybe there are enough people from member countries that are HIGHLY qualified and can GREATLY contribute to the program.
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Old 20.08.2012, 18:38
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Re: nationalism in CERN

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Maybe there are enough people from member countries that are HIGHLY qualified and can GREATLY contribute to the program.
You can not compare member countries with 300 milion (estimate) people and rest of the world with 6 billion people...Ther eis no way that you will have more highly qualified people in those 300 million compared to the rest of the world... Especially in a segment dedicated to science and development...

And that is why the EU and the EUR are going down really fast and really bad...
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Old 20.08.2012, 18:46
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Re: nationalism in CERN

Sometimes it's not even a case of having the right nationality - it can be also be a case of not having the wrong nationality.

A friend of mine with US nationality was effectively fired on the first day of working for a laboratory (weakly) linked to US defence, because he refused to renounce his UK citizenship.

Anyway, the CERN situation is slightly more complicated than the OP makes out:

Students:
Quote:
Is there a nationality restriction on candidates wishing to apply for the Doctoral Students Programme?
This programme is open to all nationals of the CERN Member States. Nationals of the non-Member States can however apply if they have been residing in a Member State for at least the last five years (at the time of the application).
General Fellows:
Quote:
What are the nationality restrictions on candidates wishing to apply for the Fellows Programme?
There are NO nationality restrictions for candidates applying for a Fellowship. It is true that the majority of Fellows come from the Member States, but since CERN aims to attract candidates who are the best in their field, Fellows come from all over the world - we currently have Fellows from 45 different countries.
Other special programs for non-member countries:https://hr-recruit.web.cern.ch/hr-re...al/special.asp


Map of where CERN users come from:
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Old 20.08.2012, 18:47
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Re: nationalism in CERN

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I was very surprised that I'm not eligible even to apply to work in CERN. Because I'm not in the list of allowed nationalities.
WTF?
Selective reading?

Staff members, Students and most Fellows recruited by CERN come from the Member States. A limited number of scientists from Non-Member State countries are accepted within the Associates and Fellows Programme.
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Old 20.08.2012, 18:54
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Re: nationalism in CERN

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Ther eis no way that you will have more highly qualified people in those 300 million compared to the rest of the world...
They don't need to have more of them than the rest of the world, they just need to have enough to cover their staffing needs.
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Old 20.08.2012, 19:01
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Re: nationalism in CERN

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They don't need to have more of them than the rest of the world, they just need to have enough to cover their staffing needs.
Yes I see, more concerned over staffing needs rather the qualitative output in the development sector, typical EU bureaucratic mindset.
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Old 20.08.2012, 19:13
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Re: nationalism in CERN

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Yes I see, more concerned over staffing needs rather the qualitative output in the development sector, typical EU bureaucratic mindset.
I have no idea if they hire the right people, you must have a very good reason to think that you do. I take your word for it, no problem.
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Old 20.08.2012, 19:22
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Re: nationalism in CERN

They have Professor Brian Cox. Anyone else is really just making up the numbers*.



* Not literally, of course**
** I hope
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Old 20.08.2012, 19:56
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Re: nationalism in CERN

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I thought CERN was about science and development and not another bureaucratic ****hole made from the EU.
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And that is why the EU and the EUR are going down really fast and really bad...
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Yes I see, more concerned over staffing needs rather the qualitative output in the development sector, typical EU bureaucratic mindset.
Just to momentarily interrupt your anti-EU groove on this thread, but I just want to point out that if you have a look at the CERN member lists for Switzerland and Norway (they're there) and Ireland and the Baltic states (they're not)...
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Old 20.08.2012, 20:07
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Re: nationalism in CERN

And your point is?

Still it is mostly EU members club



And my anti-EU groove is not personal, it's rather global/realistic groove.
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