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Old 21.08.2012, 14:29
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German Course rip off

Hi All,

is this a misunderstadning or are we being taken advantage of the by the people running the course

my wife signed up to the german course through the Geminde in Affoltern Am Albis as if offers childcare at a so called "reduced rate" but given we live in the next village do not qualify for the free childcare.

Reading the information on their website we read this that the couse is 260 with free childcare if you live in Affoltern, or 460 if you live outside but they have billed us for 260 + 460 - which if i combine my Migros course we could get private lessons for less!

can anyone read this and let me know if you think this is misleading (our son is 3 years old)

Deutsch A2.1 Deutsch für Fortgeschrittene

Montag 13.45 – 15.15 Uhr und Mittwoch 08.30 – 10.00 Uhr,
mit GRATIS-Kinderbetreuung für Personen aus Affoltern a.A. *
Familienzentrum, Zürichstrasse 136, 8910 Affoltern a.A.


Kosten CHF 260.– für den ganzen Kurs inkl. Kursbücher

* Für Teilnehmende, welche nicht in Affoltern a.A. wohnen, kostet die Kinderbetreuung CHF 460.– pro Kind und Kurs. Kinder unter
18 Monaten kosten CHF 690.–. Die Übernahme dieser Kosten kann bei der Wohngemeinde beantragt werden.



link to full page : http://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/content/...n_am_Albis.pdf
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Old 21.08.2012, 14:34
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Re: German Course rip off

My understanding is that it costs 260CHF for the course and 460CHF per child per course. So, in my view, 260 + 460 would be the correct billing.
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Old 21.08.2012, 14:35
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Re: German Course rip off

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Hi All,

is this a misunderstadning or are we being taken advantage of the by the people running the course

my wife signed up to the german course through the Geminde in Affoltern Am Albis as if offers childcare at a so called "reduced rate" but given we live in the next village do not qualify for the free childcare.

Reading the information on their webite we read this that the couse is 260 with free childcare if you live in Affoltern, or 460 if you live outside but they have billed us for 260 + 460 - which if i combine my Migros course we could get private lessons for less!

can anyone read this and let me know if you think this is misleading

Deutsch A2.1 Deutsch für Fortgeschrittene


Montag 13.45 – 15.15 Uhr und Mittwoch 08.30 – 10.00 Uhr,
mit GRATIS-Kinderbetreuung für Personen aus Affoltern a.A. *
Familienzentrum, Zürichstrasse 136, 8910 Affoltern a.A.


Kosten CHF 260.– für den ganzen Kurs inkl. Kursbücher

* Für Teilnehmende, welche nicht in Affoltern a.A. wohnen, kostet die Kinderbetreuung CHF 460.– pro Kind und Kurs. Kinder unter
18 Monaten kosten CHF 690.–. Die Übernahme dieser Kosten kann bei der Wohngemeinde beantragt werden.



link to full page : http://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/content/...n_am_Albis.pdf
It's not misleading at all.

Kosten CHF 260.– für den ganzen Kurs inkl. Kursbücher

Cost for course incl. Books: CHF 260.--

Für Teilnehmende, welche nicht in Affoltern a.A. wohnen, kostet die Kinderbetreuung CHF 460.– pro Kind und Kurs.

For participants not living in Affoltern a.A. the cost for CHILDCARE is CHF 460.- per chiild
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Old 21.08.2012, 14:41
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Re: German Course rip off

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Hi All,

is this a misunderstadning or are we being taken advantage of the by the people running the course

my wife signed up to the german course through the Geminde in Affoltern Am Albis as if offers childcare at a so called "reduced rate" but given we live in the next village do not qualify for the free childcare.

Reading the information on their website we read this that the couse is 260 with free childcare if you live in Affoltern, or 460 if you live outside but they have billed us for 260 + 460 - which if i combine my Migros course we could get private lessons for less!

can anyone read this and let me know if you think this is misleading (our son is 3 years old)

Deutsch A2.1 Deutsch für Fortgeschrittene

Montag 13.45 – 15.15 Uhr und Mittwoch 08.30 – 10.00 Uhr,
mit GRATIS-Kinderbetreuung für Personen aus Affoltern a.A. *
Familienzentrum, Zürichstrasse 136, 8910 Affoltern a.A.


Kosten CHF 260.– für den ganzen Kurs inkl. Kursbücher

* Für Teilnehmende, welche nicht in Affoltern a.A. wohnen, kostet die Kinderbetreuung CHF 460.– pro Kind und Kurs. Kinder unter
18 Monaten kosten CHF 690.–. Die Übernahme dieser Kosten kann bei der Wohngemeinde beantragt werden.



link to full page : http://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/content/...n_am_Albis.pdf
Unfortunately the German text is clear for someone who speaks German. The thing that you missed is that is says that childcare is 460.- if you don't live in Adliswil (Kinderbetreuung CHF 460.– pro Kind). They state, however, as well that you may ask your Gemeinde to cover the costs for childcare.

I would try to call them and explain nicely that you misunderstood the German (which is one of the reasons that you want to improve your German...) and that you thought it would be 460.- for the course and childcare. Maybe your wife can cancel because it is much more expensive now. If you want me to call and ask for you in Swiss German let me know. This really is a misunderstanding due to lack of German. Given that it's an offer for a German class they might understand. Hope you will be able to sort this out!
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Old 21.08.2012, 17:29
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Re: German Course rip off

Thanks for the replies. my wife is going to speak to our geminde to see if they can help
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Old 21.08.2012, 18:58
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Re: German Course rip off

I can't understand why an advertised benefit for a german course would be in german. Don't the people who need to understand the info need to learn the language and most likely don't understand the info?

Zurich has a program now which offers discounts to low income people who live in Zurich, yet all the info, as far as I noticed, was in german. hmm.
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Old 21.08.2012, 19:05
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Re: German Course rip off

What language should it be in? How many languages are spoken by people in Switzerland, you want it listed in all of them?

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I can't understand why an advertised benefit for a german course would be in german. Don't the people who need to understand the info need to learn the language and most likely don't understand the info?

Zurich has a program now which offers discounts to low income people who live in Zurich, yet all the info, as far as I noticed, was in german. hmm.
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Old 21.08.2012, 19:27
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Re: German Course rip off

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What language should it be in? How many languages are spoken by people in Switzerland, you want it listed in all of them?
I'm sorry by I agree. In the UK this would be available in a number of languages, so this should at least be available in 10 languages. The info is literally a two pager so would not be hard to get translated.
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Old 21.08.2012, 19:54
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Re: German Course rip off

Language school websites - why no English?
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Old 21.08.2012, 19:58
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Re: German Course rip off

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I'm sorry by I agree. In the UK this would be available in a number of languages, so this should at least be available in 10 languages. The info is literally a two pager so would not be hard to get translated.
I agree, and my German school doesn't provide anything in English either, but it's usually clear enough if you put it in to google translate.
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Old 21.08.2012, 20:09
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Re: German Course rip off

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What language should it be in? How many languages are spoken by people in Switzerland, you want it listed in all of them?
I don't personally care. I can understand German.

From a marketing standpoint it's a mistake in my opinion. They would most likely have better success with their programs if they offered information in the target customer's own language.

My guess is that the top 5 languages for foreigners are simple to find. That would be a good place to start and it wouldn't be that difficult to have translated. Ten would be even better but you would probably get into a low return on investment as you try to reach every potential customer.

One language is a lose lose situation when someone is promoting how you can learn their language. It's actually lazy.
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Old 21.08.2012, 20:09
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Re: German Course rip off

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What language should it be in? How many languages are spoken by people in Switzerland, you want it listed in all of them?
If I remember correctly, the most important information (dates, location, cost - roughly two paragraphs) about the equivalent course in Basel-Stadt was translated into English, Spanish, French, Turkish, Albanian, Tamil, Serbian, Mandarin, Somali and Russian. I would guess a very high proportion of immigrants speak one of those to a basic level.

Admittedly, in a city like Basel the demand and resources available are a lot higher than elsewhere.
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Old 21.08.2012, 20:24
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Re: German Course rip off

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My guess is that the top 5 languages for foreigners are simple to find. That would be a good place to start and it wouldn't be that difficult to have translated.
My guess is that English is probably not among the top 5 native languages spoken by foreigners in the German part of CH. My guess would be Italian, Serbian Turkish, French, Spanish, so this would be of no help to the OP.

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In the UK this would be available in a number of languages
The UK is one of the very few countries in the world where this is the case. TBH I find it's a colossal waste of money (the NHS alone spends millions on interpreters every year). People who move to a foreign country should learn the local language, not been provided with free translations and interpreters that only make it more likely they won't learn the local language.
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Old 21.08.2012, 20:26
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Re: German Course rip off

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My guess is that English is probably not among the top 5 native languages spoken by foreigners in the German part of CH. My guess would be Italian, Serbian Turkish, French, Spanish, so this would be of no help to the OP.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:To...rland_(en).svg

Looks like you're right if one believes wiki (from 2000). Still, it's lazy.
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Old 21.08.2012, 21:38
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Re: German Course rip off

Did anyone of you actually have a look at the website?

It says (in German, here it would be good to have more languages):

Die Flyer sind auf folgende Sprachen erhältlich: Albanisch, Arabisch, Englisch, Französisch, Italienisch, Portugiesisch, Russisch, Serbokroatisch, Spanisch, Tamil, Thai, Tigrinya, Türkisch, Ungarisch.

Bestellungen nimmt das AOZ Sekretariat Tramont entgegen.


But the words Flyer and Englisch should be already enough.

And here you can order them:

https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/content...orm.popup.html
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Old 21.08.2012, 21:43
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Re: German Course rip off

Aside from the fact that the top X languages spoken in the country would not be relevant here, rather "the top X languages spoken by the people who actually enroll and pay for these courses", how about the old "I'll ask someone who speaks the language if I understood correctly what it says before I sign up and pay money"?????

Still, OP, I hope it all turns out fine and you can renegotiate with the Gemeinde.
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Old 21.08.2012, 22:44
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Re: German Course rip off

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Did anyone of you actually have a look at the website?

It says (in German, here it would be good to have more languages):

Die Flyer sind auf folgende Sprachen erhältlich: Albanisch, Arabisch, Englisch, Französisch, Italienisch, Portugiesisch, Russisch, Serbokroatisch, Spanisch, Tamil, Thai, Tigrinya, Türkisch, Ungarisch.

Bestellungen nimmt das AOZ Sekretariat Tramont entgegen.

But the words Flyer and Englisch should be already enough.

And here you can order them:

https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/content...orm.popup.html
you're absolutely right, it makes perfect sense for somebody looking to learn German to have to know sufficient German to know that an English form can be ordered, to have to fill out an online form that is written in German, and presumably to submit the online request in German. I mean, as opposed to simply offering the translated document on the main web page.



either the powers that be want to encourage "foreigners" to learn an official language, or they don't.
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Old 21.08.2012, 23:15
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Re: German Course rip off

When I did a German course at the same place all info was only available in German not like now where there are translations available. In the class there was only 2 native English speakers including myself and the rest all spoke other languages with no 2 other people speaking the same one. AaA does provide nearly all of their info in multiple languages as pointed out by the Prof but you will find that English is bottom of the list for their translation services. Serbian, Albanian, Turkish is no problem they even hold info evening for parents of school kids in these languages but never in English.

BTW the German classes were good when I did them and the child care was also good, my son was always happy to be left in the creche.

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I'm sorry by I agree. In the UK this would be available in a number of languages, so this should at least be available in 10 languages. The info is literally a two pager so would not be hard to get translated.
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Old 21.08.2012, 23:17
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Re: German Course rip off

Translating the form using a dictionary can be your first lesson

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you're absolutely right, it makes perfect sense for somebody looking to learn German to have to know sufficient German to know that an English form can be ordered, to have to fill out an online form that is written in German, and presumably to submit the online request in German. I mean, as opposed to simply offering the translated document on the main web page.



either the powers that be want to encourage "foreigners" to learn an official language, or they don't.
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Old 21.08.2012, 23:17
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Re: German Course rip off

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you're absolutely right, it makes perfect sense for somebody looking to learn German to have to know sufficient German to know that an English form can be ordered, to have to fill out an online form that is written in German, and presumably to submit the online request in German. I mean, as opposed to simply offering the translated document on the main web page.



either the powers that be want to encourage "foreigners" to learn an official language, or they don't.
So you didn't see the sentence I wrote:
(in German, here it would be good to have more languages)

They have Flyers in 13 different languages. I'm giving this information out and some people have the audacity to still nag.

Yes, crazygringo, they could maybe simply offering the translated documents. Most probably they are planning to do so as there is a continous process of official websites and documents being translated. Maybe there are some more important projects underway. You don't know it, I don't know it.

It's better to think the worst of the "powers" because they don't have what you need right now and right here.

How can someone be bothered to take a huge effort and call a number from the website. Or asking on englishforum.ch.
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