Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Complaints corner  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 22.08.2012, 12:06
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Montenegro
Posts: 15
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 7 Times in 2 Posts
Branka has no particular reputation at present
Inheritance - ( alleged ) forgery ( Fraud / Deception )

Can someone help me please. I am Montenegrin. An year and half I became a widow with two kids. My husband was Swiss. In his Will he left all his property to three of us. However, when I came for comemoration service to Switzerland my brothers in law presented me with handwritten paper in German for me to sign (In German that I do not speak) and informed me that it serves just to submit death certificate. I stupidly signed it.
Using that paper they rented the house in Switzerland, signed my pension contract and sent my pension to my husband;s account (which is blocked as the inheritance procedure is not complete yet). They were not named in my husband;s will but to "help my wife".
They even threatened me to take my children from me.
I engaged a lawyer, but things have not moved. He is advising me not to report forgery, but to sort things nicely. I am running out of money, while my money is blocked on the bank. I do not know what to do. Does anyone know a lawyer who would not join the crew of crooks.
Please help me
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 22.08.2012, 12:11
Sbrinz's Avatar
RIP
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Murten - Morat
Posts: 11,866
Groaned at 563 Times in 354 Posts
Thanked 11,548 Times in 5,941 Posts
Sbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Inheritance - forgery

You can get some free legal advice in Switzerland.

Why don't you go to the Swiss police, in the town where your husband died, and make the accusation?
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Sbrinz for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 22.08.2012, 12:11
jrspet's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Quaint Wädenswil, Zürich, CH
Posts: 8,131
Groaned at 27 Times in 20 Posts
Thanked 7,036 Times in 3,912 Posts
jrspet has a reputation beyond reputejrspet has a reputation beyond reputejrspet has a reputation beyond reputejrspet has a reputation beyond reputejrspet has a reputation beyond reputejrspet has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Inheritance - forgery

Welcome to the forum.

A lawyer is best IMO if you feel your case has merits.

There are pro Bono lawyers available.

Quote:
The Federal Constitution provides in article 29, paragraph 3 provides that any person who does not have the necessary funds has so far entitled to legal aid when their submissions do not appear hopeless. The extent necessary to protect their rights, it has also entitled to free legal advice. Gratuitous justice means that the state pays the costs (legal and court costs) or prepay. The accepting the litigation advocates working at reduced price of 2/3 of it in principle entitled to fees. If the person who will benefit from the legal aid within 10 years to "get sufficient income or assets," she has to repay the pre-imposed costs. After expiration of the 10-year period, the State bears the cost definitely. Bernese The Civil Procedure Code (CPC) is the right to free legal assistance in Articles 77 et seq. to. The right to unpaid litigation is issued accordingly when the process to be lifted or raised not hopeless , and the applicant or the applicant legal costs
http://www.bezirksgericht-zh.ch ask for unentgeltliche Prozessführung assuming Canton of Zürich.

Canton St. Gallen: http://www.gerichte.sg.ch/home/diens...sfuehrung.html

Canton Zug: http://www.zug.ch/behoerden/verwaltu...ozessfuehrung/
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank jrspet for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 22.08.2012, 12:16
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,242
Groaned at 2,467 Times in 1,784 Posts
Thanked 39,338 Times in 18,541 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Inheritance - forgery

You need a lawyer, as apparently you're signed a POA (handwritten is legally valid here)

It's not forgery, however, rather you have given them permission to sign things for you.

You will need to prove that your signature on the POA was obtained illegally (i.e. you were not in your correct mental state, etc.)

Tom
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 22.08.2012, 13:24
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Montenegro
Posts: 15
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 7 Times in 2 Posts
Branka has no particular reputation at present
Thank you so much for your answer. Of course PoA was not valid, as I signed it two days after my husband died and in language I do not speak. Do you know (as my husband died in Thailand) may I go to any police station to report forgeries. Thank you again. I am lost in this story as all of participants simply ignore me and behave like I do not exist. My lawyer advises me to sit and wait, for which I have no time, as I do not have money

Thank you so much.

Last edited by jrspet; 22.08.2012 at 14:28. Reason: Merging of successive posts
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 22.08.2012, 13:29
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,242
Groaned at 2,467 Times in 1,784 Posts
Thanked 39,338 Times in 18,541 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Inheritance - ( alleged ) forgery ( Fraud / Deception )

There is no forgery to report.

You need to have a lawyer deal with it.

And you need to wait, as it takes time, possibly years.

Sorry, but that's how it is.

Tom
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 22.08.2012, 13:39
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Inheritance - forgery

Quote:
View Post
Thank you so much for your answer. Of course PoA was not valid, as I signed it two days after my husband died and in language I do not speak. Do you know (as my husband died in Thailand) may I go to any police station to report forgeries. Thank you again. I am lost in this story as all of participants simply ignore me and behave like I do not exist. My lawyer advises me to sit and wait, for which I have no time, as I do not have money
Unfortunately, once you've signed it you have effectively agreed with it. Your next step is to try to invalidate it by arguing that you were somehow forced into signing it or they took advantage of your impaired judgement because of grief to push the contract in front of you and get you to sign it.

I think you should stop using the word "forgery" unless they really did "forge" your signature. It won't help your case if you don't stick to the facts.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 22.08.2012, 13:42
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Montenegro
Posts: 15
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 7 Times in 2 Posts
Branka has no particular reputation at present
Re: Inheritance - ( alleged ) forgery ( Fraud / Deception )

But isnt it fraud. This happens very often (especially with elderly). They used the opportunity when I was out of my mind with paper in language I do not speak. Are you sure that I do not have a case. My husband mentioned in the Will that the money on his account "should be used for good education of my children". I am prevented to use the money. That is exactly what they want, in order to prove that I cannot provide my children with education and therefore they may claim to be legal Guardians (They have already declared themselves as such and participate in the meetings where the setllement of the Will should be done, without me). I am very scared of these ogres.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 22.08.2012, 13:46
p42's Avatar
p42 p42 is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Kanton Schwyz.
Posts: 827
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 420 Times in 269 Posts
p42 has an excellent reputationp42 has an excellent reputationp42 has an excellent reputationp42 has an excellent reputation
Re: Inheritance - ( alleged ) forgery ( Fraud / Deception )

Relatives are going to be very upset about your husbands death too. They are also worried about the kids, and their promise/responsibility to look after them. They might be trying to make sure most of his money goes to the kids and not you. Your Husband probably said to them "make sure the kids are OK if anything happens to me". Given the conversation so far it sounds like they are less concerned about you, but the kids. They don't want you to remarry and the kids get pushed out, the kids come back to Switzerland and then say to their Swiss relatives, why didn't you look after the cash like you said. That is hopefully their concern. This is just my observation as a 3rd party. It is good they rented the house and put the money in your husbands account rather than letting it bleed dry.

Although they have power of attorney, they shouldn't abuse that.

If I were you, I would consider to bring the kids back here, get them in school, rent a very modest apartment near school/family, find a good local translator, and take control of everything day to day.

You can consider the other advice too, like st2lemans's.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank p42 for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 22.08.2012, 13:46
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Inheritance - ( alleged ) forgery ( Fraud / Deception )

Quote:
View Post
But isnt it fraud. This happens very often (especially with elderly). They used the opportunity when I was out of my mind with paper in language I do not speak. Are you sure that I do not have a case. My husband mentioned in the Will that the money on his account "should be used for good education of my children". I am prevented to use the money. That is exactly what they want, in order to prove that I cannot provide my children with education and therefore they may claim to be legal Guardians (They have already declared themselves as such and participate in the meetings where the setllement of the Will should be done, without me). I am very scared of these ogres.
Possibly fraud but that is not the same thing as forgery. The Swiss are usually quite strict with wills in that it's difficult not to allow money to go to your children. I suspect the family will have a difficult time to redirect his inheritance.

None of us on here are lawyers so we can only really speculate. As others have said, you should go to a reputable legal firm. In addition, you could try a centre for women (someone on here has posted the website address many times but I can't for the life of me remember what they are). They are excellent at supporting women in similar positions.

Tip for the future has got to be - don't sign ANYTHING if you don't understand it.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #11  
Old 22.08.2012, 13:47
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Montenegro
Posts: 15
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 7 Times in 2 Posts
Branka has no particular reputation at present
Re: Inheritance - ( alleged ) forgery ( Fraud / Deception )

Another thing is that it is a forgery. He signed my pension contract with my name (as they did not allow in Pension Fund any PoA). They told me that they have a contract with my original signature on it. I have never signed that contract, so it is forgery.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 22.08.2012, 13:50
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Montenegro
Posts: 15
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 7 Times in 2 Posts
Branka has no particular reputation at present
Re: Inheritance - ( alleged ) forgery ( Fraud / Deception )

Quote:
Possibly fraud but that is not the same thing as forgery. The Swiss are usually quite strict with wills in that it's difficult not to allow money to go to your children. I suspect the family will have a difficult time to redirect his inheritance.

None of us on here are lawyers so we can only really speculate. As others have said, you should go to a reputable legal firm. In addition, you could try a centre for women (someone on here has posted the website address many times but I can't for the life of me remember what they are). They are excellent at supporting women in similar positions.

Tip for the future has got to be - don't sign ANYTHING if you don't understand it.
Thank you very much. Yeah, I was very stupid. But I had cremation of my husband in Thailand, travelled to Switzerlans and they gave me the paper (I thought that my husband wished them to do the administration and help me, as I haven;t seen the Will). Never again.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 22.08.2012, 13:52
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,242
Groaned at 2,467 Times in 1,784 Posts
Thanked 39,338 Times in 18,541 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Inheritance - ( alleged ) forgery ( Fraud / Deception )

1) If you signed, you signed, that it's in a language you don't understand doesn't matter.

Your lawyer needs to argue that you were not mentally competent (due to grief, and certainly several days, and longer, after the death of one's spouse this can easily be argued).

2) It's only fraud if you were not mentally competent when signing, NOT because you signed something you didn't understand.

3) It's not forgery.

Sorry, but a lawyer and time is the only way ahead. Unfortunately, I am all too aware of this due to dealing with a similar situation regarding my late mother in law and her brother, these things can drag on for years!

Tom
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 22.08.2012, 13:55
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,242
Groaned at 2,467 Times in 1,784 Posts
Thanked 39,338 Times in 18,541 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Inheritance - ( alleged ) forgery ( Fraud / Deception )

Quote:
View Post
Another thing is that it is a forgery. He signed my pension contract with my name (as they did not allow in Pension Fund any PoA). They told me that they have a contract with my original signature on it. I have never signed that contract, so it is forgery.
Yes, this is forgery. This is something you should file a criminal complaint about.

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 22.08.2012, 13:57
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Inheritance - ( alleged ) forgery ( Fraud / Deception )

Quote:
In addition, you could try a centre for women (someone on here has posted the website address many times but I can't for the life of me remember what they are). They are excellent at supporting women in similar positions.
Found the link. See if they can help you in any way.

Last edited by Sandgrounder; 22.08.2012 at 13:59. Reason: Fixed link
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #16  
Old 22.08.2012, 13:58
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Montenegro
Posts: 15
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 7 Times in 2 Posts
Branka has no particular reputation at present
Re: Inheritance - forgery

Quote:
View Post
You can get some free legal advice in Switzerland.

Why don't you go to the Swiss police, in the town where your husband died, and make the accusation?
Thank you very much
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 22.08.2012, 14:03
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,242
Groaned at 2,467 Times in 1,784 Posts
Thanked 39,338 Times in 18,541 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Inheritance - ( alleged ) forgery ( Fraud / Deception )

Is your lawyer located in Switzerland?

Tom
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #18  
Old 22.08.2012, 14:08
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Montenegro
Posts: 15
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 7 Times in 2 Posts
Branka has no particular reputation at present
Re: Inheritance - ( alleged ) forgery ( Fraud / Deception )

Quote:
View Post
Yes, this is forgery. This is something you should file a criminal complaint about.

Tom
Thank you very much Tom. You are very kind and very smart. That is exactly what I will do. I only want my pension back to be able to send kids to school. The rest can wait, I do not care.
I am a foreigner, have never lived in Switzerland, have no clue about their legal system. Your advices are very appreciated.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 22.08.2012, 14:09
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Montenegro
Posts: 15
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 7 Times in 2 Posts
Branka has no particular reputation at present
Re: Inheritance - ( alleged ) forgery ( Fraud / Deception )

Quote:
Found the link. See if they can help you in any way.
Oh, how kind to me all of you are. Thank you so much.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 22.08.2012, 14:11
Carlos R's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Roundn'about Basel
Posts: 7,232
Groaned at 105 Times in 95 Posts
Thanked 9,934 Times in 4,178 Posts
Carlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Inheritance - ( alleged ) forgery ( Fraud / Deception )

Quote:
View Post
1) If you signed, you signed, that it's in a language you don't understand doesn't matter.

2) It's only fraud if you were not mentally competent when signing, NOT because you signed something you didn't understand.
Kinda depends, surely. Both are linked if the OP was told the document was something else and her signature was obtained via deception.

Proving that, however, is going to be difficult, as if the family are working together, they'll just support each other with their statements.

The only real argument would be "why would I have done something so stupid?", with the answer "because I was out of it with grief and not thinking straight."

If you were on medication at the time, because of the death of your husband, it would probably help.

Anyway, sorry about your loss and good luck.
__________________
Never let right or wrong get in the way of a good opinion
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Carlos R for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Creepy crawly alleged friends appearing from no where! Guest General off-topic 13 07.05.2011 18:07
Book recommendation: Christopher Reich's [Rules of Deception] SemAms General off-topic 0 13.01.2010 14:14
Alleged skinheads attack near Stettbach Bahnhof msolis Complaints corner 356 19.11.2009 10:56
Alleged speeding/racing/convoy issues (foreign drivers) UK Robert Transportation/driving 52 15.05.2009 10:31


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 14:13.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0