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  #41  
Old 12.09.2012, 22:15
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Re: Painter trying to charge for an estimate!

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Indeed!

Tom
This is offtopic, but why do some people sign their every post? I find it to be very pretentious, Tom
  #42  
Old 12.09.2012, 22:16
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Re: Painter trying to charge for an estimate!

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You could find yourself unable to rent a flat, get a job, get a bank loan, get a mortgage, etc, etc. Having a debt registered against you can make your life in CH very difficult. Hence I'd like to know exactly how it would be seen legally here - what we think is irrelevant to a great extent.
I don't think it is so easy to blacklist someone, so I wouldn't worry if there was no mutual agreement upfront.
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  #43  
Old 12.09.2012, 22:18
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Re: Painter trying to charge for an estimate!

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It is not surprising that there is a trend to charge for quotes in order to reduce the free loaders asking 10 tradespeople to give a quote and then rejecting them. These people have a business to run and time on rejected quotes is time they cant spend on another real job. Switzerland also is not the only place where this happens.
Flip that the other way, Make it expensive to get alternative quotes so you can artificially force up the prices because people can't ask around for a quote because it's too expensive. The whole concept of charging for a quote is to reduce the bidding, which would otherwise drive down the prices...

I apologies, thats far to cynical of me, ....it because there professionals and should be paid for putting in a bid to earn money
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  #44  
Old 12.09.2012, 22:24
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Re: Painter trying to charge for an estimate!

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Estimates are billable, sorry if you don't know that, but why should someone give you a free estimate?

Sure, an off the cuff verbal estimate could be expected for free, but not a detailed written one!

Tom
Why shouldn't they? If you want customers you need to invest something...like I said any serious business will give you an offer for free...

if my company would start charging for the work we put into our offers we would be out of business long time ago and that goes for any serious business...
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  #45  
Old 12.09.2012, 22:35
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Re: Painter trying to charge for an estimate!

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So let me get this straight...

I go buy a new car, get the salesman turned inside out with a test drive, options, financing etc and then say I think I want an Suv instead of a Mini.

Do I pay for his time too? No?

Why should I pay a tradesman then? they can kiss my foot.

..I go...yet tradesman comes. and spends time on some small painting job, sure he charges for the estimate unless he gets the job afterwards, this is reasonably fair. If it was to paint a whole appartemetn block, then maybe a little diiferent.

As for "kissing you foot" or any other part of your anatomy, i would rather not thankyou, as the bits we hear, are more than obnoxious enough not to want to venture any further.


But thanks for the offer
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  #46  
Old 12.09.2012, 22:35
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Re: Painter trying to charge for an estimate!

I probably spend 60 days a year working for free, giving advice on how to do things & what it will cost to do it. Often people just take the advice & do it themselves as they have been told how to do it, equipment lists provided!

Recently a large watch company gave 10,000 to 4 companies to come up with a proposal for a film with a budget of 400,000, which is how it should be done, 3 people at 1 company are working on the concept for at least a month, the company will still loose money if they don't get the project, however a step in the right direction.
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  #47  
Old 12.09.2012, 22:40
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Re: Painter trying to charge for an estimate!

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Without a contract (i.e. some form of prior agreement) you don't have to pay anything.

Granted, a contract could also be verbal but in that case it's his word against yours, so he would have a hard time proving that you agreed to pay for the estimate.
I'd guess that if it's common practice to charge for quotes then it might be assumed that it should be taken as read.

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I don't agree. You quote for free and incorporate that time into your quote.
Those quotes have to be paid for somewhere along the line. Why should a customer pay for your quote? Why do you expect people to work for nothing?
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  #48  
Old 12.09.2012, 22:53
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Re: Painter trying to charge for an estimate!

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I'd guess that if it's common practice to charge for quotes then it might be assumed that it should be taken as read.



Those quotes have to be paid for somewhere along the line. Why should a customer pay for your quote? Why do you expect people to work for nothing?
Of course if a customer orders something he will pay for the quotes...and people don't work for nothing...ordering customers will always pay...

and it's not common practice to charge for quotes, what a retarded idea...
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  #49  
Old 12.09.2012, 22:54
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Re: Painter trying to charge for an estimate!

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This is offtopic, but why do some people sign their every post?
Because my user-name isn't actually my name!

Tom
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  #50  
Old 12.09.2012, 23:06
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Re: Painter trying to charge for an estimate!

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..I go...yet tradesman comes. and spends time on some small painting job, sure he charges for the estimate unless he gets the job afterwards, this is reasonably fair. If it was to paint a whole appartemetn block, then maybe a little diiferent.

As for "kissing you foot" or any other part of your anatomy, i would rather not thankyou, as the bits we hear, are more than obnoxious enough not to want to venture any further.


But thanks for the offer
Today only? What happens tomorrow? You start making even less sense?
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  #51  
Old 12.09.2012, 23:08
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Re: Painter trying to charge for an estimate!

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Because my user-name isn't actually my name!

Tom
Tom ( may I call you Tom? ) -

To eliminate any confusion may I suggest PretentiousTom or GroanerTom as a new user name, Tom?

IK36
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  #52  
Old 12.09.2012, 23:22
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Re: Painter trying to charge for an estimate!

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To eliminate any confusion may I suggest PretentiousTom or GroanerTom as a new user name, Tom?
Don't forget to bill him for your time in determining his potential new names.
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  #53  
Old 12.09.2012, 23:26
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Re: Painter trying to charge for an estimate!

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Don't forget to bill him for your time in determining his potential new names.
It is a freebie. Cost of doing business....
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Old 12.09.2012, 23:28
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Re: Painter trying to charge for an estimate!

Wow what a groan fest over someone's opinion based on something I believe is cultural. No one used to charge me for an estimation in Quebec, Istanbul and Spain. I am not saying it is the right thing or not. I certainly remember our agency never billing for estimation made for organizing events and weddings. Best quotes with best ideas win.

If your quote isn't good enough, someone will get it. Tough market. Is that what we call free market?
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Old 12.09.2012, 23:39
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Re: Painter trying to charge for an estimate!

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No one used to charge me for an estimation in Quebec, Istanbul and Spain.
I could hardly imagine what would happen if somebody tries to charge for estimation in Istanbul!
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Old 12.09.2012, 23:47
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Re: Painter trying to charge for an estimate!

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As said, and as usual, I can see both sides

At the end of the day though - we can all think what we want - but I'd like to know how one stands LEGALLY here in CH, if refusing to pay. Could it, or could it not, be registered as an unpaid bill = debt with the Office des poursuites in left unpaid - with all the ensuing effects? Does anybody know for sure, what the official viewpoint/law stands here in CH? Until we know FOR SURE, I'd be cautious with refusing to pay.
It would be up to a court to decide if you dispute the bill and if then the painter takes it further to court. I doubt it would ever end up in court though as in a case like this the painter knows he will likely lose the case.

I have refused to pay unjustified bills and so far nobody has ever taken this further (not even by passing it on to a debt-recovery company) as they clearly knew they couldn't win it, they were just chancing it hoping I would just pay up, and this thread show lots of people would just pay up, so it must be quite profitable for rip-off companies without scruples to send unjustified bills.

To be clear I only did this when I was convinced the bill (or one or more specific items on a bill) was totally unjustified and legally baseless, not because I didn't feel like paying a legitimate bill.
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Old 12.09.2012, 23:54
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Re: Painter trying to charge for an estimate!

My experience has been a rough quote, cost nothing. A detailed estimate with visits from different tradespeople and a detailed conclusion will be billed if the contract is not entered within a year.
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Old 12.09.2012, 23:55
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Re: Painter trying to charge for an estimate!

I think the Pulitzer in this thread goes to Today Only for the piece titled: " ... I go... Yet tradesman comes"

I cant stop laughing
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Old 13.09.2012, 00:37
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Re: Painter trying to charge for an estimate!

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You could find yourself unable to rent a flat, get a job, get a bank loan, get a mortgage, etc, etc. Having a debt registered against you can make your life in CH very difficult. Hence I'd like to know exactly how it would be seen legally here - what we think is irrelevant to a great extent.
This is pure scaremongering. Before an unpaid bill ends up on the Betreibungsregister in your name, there is a whole procedure where you have plenty opportunity to dispute the bill (or pay up with added admin fees). It doesn't just happen automatically without you knowing about it and without you having a chance to dispute or rectify it.
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Old 13.09.2012, 01:09
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Re: Painter trying to charge for an estimate!

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This is pure scaremongering. Before an unpaid bill ends up on the Betreibungsregister in your name, there is a whole procedure where you have plenty opportunity to dispute the bill (or pay up with added admin fees). It doesn't just happen automatically without you knowing about it and without you having a chance to dispute or rectify it.
Very true, there is warning and then action; After which on such a low case it usualy goes to meditation and not court straight away as suggested, or if taken directly to, they insisit on meditation to stop wasting their time...

However, if you are in a small farming comunity pissing off the local businesses can be worse than ending up on a government collection list, just my 2 rappen...
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