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Old 15.09.2012, 23:49
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All The Trouble With Muslim Movie?

So I dont get it. I understand there has been lots of killing of Americans over this Mohamed movie. But I dont understand why in the heck they are blaming "America" for this?

I lived in Egypt and Sudan and its quite obvious people find it uncomfortable to discuss the Prophets young wives (4 year olds who's "fruit have not yet been picked")..... Most people in the Islamic world arent actually proud of this kind of thing, even though they dont deny it was normal for the prophet.

Yet when some one makes a movie about it (which you have to admit was a shabby comedy), people all act as if its a surprising insult.

Doesnt anyone find it stupid that this is getting so heated? What happens if they start to fire-bomb the US embassy in Bern? What would it achieve? (other than getting people put on terror watch lists)....

The reaction by these people has done more to hurt Islam than this lame comedy.
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Old 16.09.2012, 00:12
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Re: All The Trouble With Muslim Movie?

4 year old??
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Old 16.09.2012, 00:14
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Re: All The Trouble With Muslim Movie?

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So I dont get it. I understand there has been lots of killing of Americans over this Mohamed movie. But I dont understand why in the heck they are blaming "America" for this?

I lived in Egypt and Sudan and its quite obvious people find it uncomfortable to discuss the Prophets young wives (4 year olds who's "fruit have not yet been picked")..... Most people in the Islamic world arent actually proud of this kind of thing, even though they dont deny it was normal for the prophet.

Yet when some one makes a movie about it (which you have to admit was a shabby comedy), people all act as if its a surprising insult.

Doesnt anyone find it stupid that this is getting so heated? What happens if they start to fire-bomb the US embassy in Bern? What would it achieve? (other than getting people put on terror watch lists)....

The reaction by these people has done more to hurt Islam than this lame comedy.
A) It is a fairly small number of people who "all" act ..................
B) It got heated as it was what the Muslim Brotherhood zealots were looking for
C) The whole matter did neither hurt "Islam" nor the Arab World, but it DID/DOES hurt the position of President Mursi ...... a member of the Muslim Brotherhood but now State President of Egypt
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Old 16.09.2012, 00:17
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Re: All The Trouble With Muslim Movie?

They clearly haven't seen this:



Tom
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Old 16.09.2012, 00:18
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All The Trouble With Muslim Movie?

My theory is there is a large mass of people in the African third world who are extremely unhappy. They feel impotent after their government leaders have stolen their assets, and they have seen some hope when in several Arab countries the people have risen up and thrown out the bandits. But their situation has still not improved a lot in the short term. They all seem to have forgotten that the great Satan, and her best friend, made these uprisings possible by supporting and arming the rebels.

Now along comes a criminal coptic Egyptian, looking to stir up trouble, and as a gift from heaven the trouble makers in these countries encourage the mob to attack the great Satan. Is it possible that the present Arab leaders are encouraging the attacks as this will detract from the continuing poor situation in Libya, Egypt etc? The film was made in June, so why has it taken so long for the protests to start?

One of the first Americans to be killed was on a mission to find and destroy the excess arms in Libya. How can you explain that to a howling mob?

I understand that the Koran was written in an old flowery language, similarly to our Bible. It is now up to religious scholars and leaders to interpret these old writings, and mistakes and distortions can be made. We are lucky as our bible translation was fixed in 1611, and since then there has been very little argument among protestants as to what it all means.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Author..._James_Version

I believe there will only be peace in the middle east when all the citizens understand the history of religion, and accept that there are differences of opinion between all of us.
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Old 16.09.2012, 00:30
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Re: All The Trouble With Muslim Movie?

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We are lucky as our bible translation was fixed in 1611, and since then there has been very little argument among protestants as to what it all means.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Author..._James_Version
...and you forgot to mention, that the King James commissioned bible had conveniently certain parts missing, which were written by the Roman historian Josephus. These, let's call them "changes" , gave more power to the wealthy ruling class....but that's a whole different topic right there.

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I believe there will only be peace in the middle east when all the citizens understand the history of religion, and accept that there are differences of opinion between all of us.
There will never be peace on earth, as long as there are religions, differeing views, cultures and mindsets.
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Old 16.09.2012, 01:24
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Re: All The Trouble With Muslim Movie?

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My theory is there is a large mass of people in the African third world who are extremely unhappy.
-
So sorry but your theory is wrong. It has nothing to do with Africa but with Muslim countries first of all. And it is NOT a large mass of people but a very SMALL mass of people who were/are involved

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They feel impotent after their government leaders have stolen their assets, and they have seen some hope when in several Arab countries the people have risen up and thrown out the bandits.
-
Do not generalize. There was and is and will be corruption. But exactly Hosni Mubarak and Abidine Ben Ali did NOT steal their assets but tolerated family members to steal some assets.

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But their situation has still not improved a lot in the short term. They all seem to have forgotten that the great Satan, and her best friend, made these uprisings possible by supporting and arming the rebels.
-
The situation in Tunisia and Libya and Egypt has improved in so far as structures established many decades ago were done away with.
-
But then you get into errors again. The West, which includes the USA made the uprisings possible. But the rebels were NOT the Muslim Brotherhood chaps. Those folks in question neither were the rebels nor were supported. Quite to the contrary, the "protesters" are opposed to the rebels you mention

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Now along comes a criminal coptic Egyptian, looking to stir up trouble, and as a gift from heaven the trouble makers in these countries encourage the mob to attack the great Satan. Is it possible that the present Arab leaders are encouraging the attacks as this will detract from the continuing poor situation in Libya, Egypt etc? The film was made in June, so why has it taken so long for the protests to start?
-
One thing is clear and that is that none of the present/new/old Arab leaders are encouraging those attacks. As these attacks are exactly aimed at them . These attacks are done in order to push the leaders into trouble.
-
June ? This means only 3 months. Absolutely comm d'habitude

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One of the first Americans to be killed was on a mission to find and destroy the excess arms in Libya. How can you explain that to a howling mob?
-
find and destroy excess arms ? This everywhere would be a most extremely dangerous job. I in past years often had to phone to the airport of Palermo and the automated welcome message always was Aeroporto Palermo Falcone Borsellino reminding people of the two state attorneys who got assassinated. I always found it a very deeply moving thing

The US ambassador to Libya was THE chap who originally was the envoy to the rebels in Benghazi. This however means that he was seen as a friend of the present Libyan leadership. And the Muslim Brotherhood who lost the past elections are eager to bring the new leadership into trouble


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I believe there will only be peace in the middle east when all the citizens understand the history of religion, and accept that there are differences of opinion between all of us
-
ALL ??? Do all citizens elsewhere in the world understand and accept this really ?
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Old 16.09.2012, 01:27
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Re: All The Trouble With Muslim Movie?

I understand that the Koran was written in an old flowery language, similarly to our Bible. It is now up to religious scholars and leaders to interpret these old writings, and mistakes and distortions can be made. We are lucky as our bible translation was fixed in 1611, and since then there has been very little argument among protestants as to what it all means.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Author..._James_Version

Unfortunately, your understaning is wrong and some details from the OP is also wrong. I don't think anyone in here (including myself) is qualified to interpret the bible or the qur'an. As those who can, wouldn't even be using this forum, no offence to EF or its users, it just wouldn't be their cup of tea or coffee.

It is never a good idea to debate about religion in a forum or in a panel as the one who is speaking the loudest or talking over each other will get the oxygen of publicity regardless of them being wrong or right.

I come across many people who mostly debate about religion just to demonstrate their intelligence, win arguments or imparting how much they've read about a particular niche subject within the religion rather than debate on the basis of finding out the truth. in most cases when they lose the argument or it is proved that they are wrong then they don't change their views, even if using their own scriptures as evidence.

Ask yourself one question, has any Muslims ever slandered any prophets of Jews or Christian phophets, Mary or Jesus.
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Old 16.09.2012, 01:39
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Re: All The Trouble With Muslim Movie?

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So I dont get it. I understand there has been lots of killing of Americans over this Mohamed movie. But I dont understand why in the heck they are blaming "America" for this?

I lived in Egypt and Sudan and its quite obvious people find it uncomfortable to discuss the Prophets young wives (4 year olds who's "fruit have not yet been picked")..... Most people in the Islamic world arent actually proud of this kind of thing, even though they dont deny it was normal for the prophet.

Yet when some one makes a movie about it (which you have to admit was a shabby comedy), people all act as if its a surprising insult.

Doesnt anyone find it stupid that this is getting so heated? What happens if they start to fire-bomb the US embassy in Bern? What would it achieve? (other than getting people put on terror watch lists)....

The reaction by these people has done more to hurt Islam than this lame comedy.

Please put your facts right before commenting anything absurd about the Prophet.

I cant understand why you cant do a little reserach about Islam and Prophet before forming your opinion. Sad to see people like you who are exposed to internet and are skilled to do a search on google, still are so ignorant !
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Old 16.09.2012, 01:43
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Re: All The Trouble With Muslim Movie?

I thought this article was informative,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-19609951
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Old 16.09.2012, 01:46
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Re: All The Trouble With Muslim Movie?

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I understand that the Koran was written in an old flowery language, similarly to our Bible. It is now up to religious scholars and leaders to interpret these old writings, and mistakes and distortions can be made. We are lucky as our bible translation was fixed in 1611, and since then there has been very little argument among protestants as to what it all means.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Author..._James_Version

Unfortunately, your understaning is wrong and some details from the OP is also wrong. I don't think anyone in here (including myself) is qualified to interpret the bible or the qur'an. As those who can, wouldn't even be using this forum, no offence to EF or its users, it just wouldn't be their cup of tea or coffee.

It is never a good idea to debate about religion in a forum or in a panel as the one who is speaking the loudest or talking over each other will get the oxygen of publicity regardless of them being wrong or right.

I come across many people who mostly debate about religion just to demonstrate their intelligence, win arguments or imparting how much they've read about a particular niche subject within the religion rather than debate on the basis of finding out the truth. in most cases when they lose the argument or it is proved that they are wrong then they don't change their views, even if using their own scriptures as evidence.

Ask yourself one question, has any Muslims ever slandered any prophets of Jews or Christian phophets, Mary or Jesus.
Quran was not written, it was revealed to the prophet and God himself took responsibility to protect it from any human intervention.So you see, its the only religious book which has not been changed from past 1400 years.

I cant comment on the Bible as I dont have much knowledge about it.

We muslims respect all religions and every prophet and expect the same. But if some jews decide to hire a porn movie director and make a film by misguiding the actors, dubbing there dialogues and trying to defame Islam which they always do, we muslims will not take it in the name of freedome of speech.
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Old 16.09.2012, 02:01
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Re: All The Trouble With Muslim Movie?

This might be interesting to watch :-

http://youtube.com/watch?feature=related&v=Unh5XfRWxo8
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Old 16.09.2012, 02:04
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Re: All The Trouble With Muslim Movie?

Alright folks, please settle down and do not turn this into something we have enough of in real life.
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Old 16.09.2012, 02:33
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Re: All The Trouble With Muslim Movie?

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Quran was not written, it was revealed to the prophet and God himself took responsibility to protect it from any human intervention.So you see, its the only religious book which has not been changed from past 1400 years.

I cant comment on the Bible as I dont have much knowledge about it.

We muslims respect all religions and every prophet and expect the same. But if some jews decide to hire a porn movie director and make a film by misguiding the actors, dubbing there dialogues and trying to defame Islam which they always do, we muslims will not take it in the name of freedome of speech.
What? You will only make it more difficult for Muslims to immigrate to other countries with free speech. In fact, I do not see why any Muslim would want to come to the western world! It is so vastly different. IMHO, all western embassies should leave the middle east and all financial aid should be cut off. You from the middle east should be allowed to have your country and run it the way you please without western interference. If it is your way to pray to the Koran all day, then its none of the western world's business. Every religion has " beliefs' and "bits and pieces of the truth." Sorry...but not ONE religion has it all.
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Old 16.09.2012, 02:35
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Re: All The Trouble With Muslim Movie?

Can we get back on topic? Why are people blaming America for this bad film?

The coptic criminal, originally from Egypt (NOT a Jew!), lives there, along with 314 million other Americans. The US cannot be made responsible for all of its citizens, just as Saudi Arabia could not be responsible for Osama bin Mohammed bin Awad bin Laden.

We don't need a discussion of religions, we all agree that the film is extremely insulting! We are discussing why or how the accusations came about.
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Old 16.09.2012, 02:42
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Re: All The Trouble With Muslim Movie?

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Can we get back on topic? Why are people blaming America for this bad film?

The coptic criminal, originally from Egypt (NOT a Jew!), lives there, along with 314 million other Americans. The US cannot be made responsible for all of its citizens, just as Saudi Arabia could not be responsible for Osama bin Mohammed bin Awad bin Laden.

We don't need a discussion of religions, we all agree that the film is extremely insulting! We are discussing why or how the accusations came about.
The media has stated that the uprising really had nothing to do with the film. The film has been out for over 6 months. It has to do with 9/11. Some state that 9/11 in the Muslim world is a holiday like Thanksgiving is to Americans.
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Old 16.09.2012, 07:33
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Re: All The Trouble With Muslim Movie?

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... I don't think anyone in here (including myself) is qualified to interpret the bible or the qur'an. As those who can, wouldn't even be using this forum, no offence to EF or its users, it just wouldn't be their cup of tea or coffee....
That's a big assumption! I'm qualified - or at least working towards it. Degree in Divinity from the University of London. It even constains a module on Islam, and there are variant versions (transmissions) of the Quran.

Anyway, back on-topic. The mob are angry about the US, because US freedom of speech allows these things that they don't like. The mob attack western interests because it suits the political aims of various factional leaders. If anyone cares to look, the onion has an extremely offensive religious cartoon - offensive to Jews, Christians, Buddhists and Hindus. Let's see whether anything happens about that, or whether they just shrug their shoulder's, roll their eyes, and get on with the important things in life.

When you can't even broadcast a documentary on the subject of Islam, then it seems to me that the religion has got big problems with it's followers, and should look how to address them. Islam was fairly well tolerated and respected until the extremists started to get a hold of it. The extremists are, themselves, defaming Islam, bringing into disrepute.
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Old 16.09.2012, 08:55
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Re: All The Trouble With Muslim Movie?

I think that a lots of people are fed up with US messing with their state of affairs and telling everyone else what is white and what is black. Maybe it was brewing for some time now and finally people who are sick of it are rising.
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Old 16.09.2012, 09:07
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Re: All The Trouble With Muslim Movie?

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So I dont get it. I understand there has been lots of killing of Americans over this Mohamed movie. But I dont understand why in the heck they are blaming "America" for this?
As I understand it, it's grossly offensive to the Islamic faith to portray the Prophet Mohammed physically in any shape or form. As there is an actor playing the part of Mohammed I think this might have been the kick off point.

Agree with other posters that at least a % of it is politically motivated, though.
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Old 16.09.2012, 09:07
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Re: All The Trouble With Muslim Movie?

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I think that a lots of people are fed up with US messing with their state of affairs and telling everyone else what is white and what is black. Maybe it was brewing for some time now and finally people who are sick of it are rising.


That is my opinion too.

Now it seems US and UK warships are massing in the Gulf in the expectation that Israel will soon attack Iran. It'll never end. (Or maybe it will - completely).

It's amazing how eagerly the western world TVs show the destruction and death in Syria and the 1000s of refugees. Oddly enough we were hardly shown anything of the 100 times worse death, destruction and fleeing people in Iraq.

I don't want to start another anti-US post because other countries are no better but maybe we should stop talking about the 'hate' in the hearts of Muslims and look at our own faces in the mirror.
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