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Old 19.09.2012, 23:22
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Re: You Tube refuses to remove video

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Why don't YouTube allow "erotic content" if they're so morally up their own self-righteous backsides?

One rule for violence, one for musical copyright, but let's not show any naked flesh for fear of .... er, sorry there must have been a reason .....
I upload the occasional youtube video of my lil 'un for the benefit of his grandparents in the UK. In one video he was dancing around to Rihanna on the radio and the rotters pulled it on grounds of Music Copyright
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Old 19.09.2012, 23:47
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Re: You Tube refuses to remove video

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the above might be good for a general definition, but under US law the above is not accurate. more importantly, freedom of speech in the US is not a "political right", but rather is a "fundamental and inalienable right", meaning that it can only be infringed or impaired in the most extreme of circumstances. to say that the video in question has "incited crime" is absolutely inane, and a total indictment of the criminal rather than the film.

I am sorry, but my personal view is that freedom of speech is sacrosanct and an absolute pillar of any democratic civilization. and there is no question whatsoever that the film in question is protected speech under US law, it is a slam dunk case.
So how far can you go in the USA with sacrosant free speech?

Can you refer to Mit Romney's speeches and call him rude names in public: would the police then arrest you? Wouldn't there be possible charges of incitement to riot?

Why has the film maker been arrested if he was just using free speech to insult Islamism? Are you allowed to slander Jesus Christ?

It ain't so different when you think about it.
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Old 19.09.2012, 23:53
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Re: You Tube refuses to remove video

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I upload the occasional youtube video of my lil 'un for the benefit of his grandparents in the UK. In one video he was dancing around to Rihanna on the radio and the rotters pulled it on grounds of Music Copyright
I'm told, though I've not tried it yet, you can get free software to process videos to slow down the music track by a few bpm, not enough to make a difference to a human, but enough to throw the automated music detection software.
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Old 19.09.2012, 23:58
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Re: You Tube refuses to remove video

I am in favor of keeping this stupid movie online as well,not because of freedom of speech but rather for the following:

it is a snapshot of our current level of civilization. It shows how some people can do stupid things to others in the name of religion.However,it also shows how people enjoy attacking and insulting other people's beliefs and also hurting them.

Yes,there is freedom speech,but you dont have to put your nose in everything.I really do not understand why such a video has been made and why nobody here is questioning that?
I mean Islam may not be perfect,but why attacking peoples' beliefs and their identities first?arent we enough civilized yet?havent we learned anything from the WWII mistakes?

I dont know really what more to say.I feel emberassed both for those radikals and for the people who think they can do anything in any way under the concept of freedom of speech and expression.I just hope this movie will teach everybody something and eventually we can climb one more step in civilization.
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Old 20.09.2012, 00:09
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Why is You Tube making a bad situation worse by refusing to remove the offensive video? Free speech can only be free if it is not used illegally.
<snip>
.
Just wanted to add my voice to the 'Hell no, don't pull it' crowd, also I think it's a bit of a leap to describe the video as 'offensive', it's a video that *some* people may find offensive (NB, I strongly doubt many of the protestors have seen it) . What I saw of it was embarrassingly bad but I wasn't at all offended. I also applaud the French magazine Charlie Hebdo's publishing of the Muhammad cartoons and I'd love if every national newspaper in a show of solidarity published them too. Someones right to believe in their imaginary friend does not extend to a right not to be mocked for their delusions.

Additionally, if said imaginary friend is so powerful, why not just leave it to him to deal with the unbelievers?
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Old 20.09.2012, 00:20
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Re: You Tube refuses to remove video

So you tube should also remove all the hate speeches by some prominent Muslim clerics, which advocate violence or killing against a whole host of races or homosexuals. how is this any different.

I am not going to throw my teddy out of the pram and go and burn a few mosques because I might be offended.

Didn't a French magazine publish some cartoons today as well? Lets see what happens with that one.
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Old 20.09.2012, 00:26
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Re: You Tube refuses to remove video

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I'm told, though I've not tried it yet, you can get free software to process videos to slow down the music track by a few bpm, not enough to make a difference to a human, but enough to throw the automated music detection software.
Fortunately he also dances quite well to Hungarian Folk music, so crisis averted
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Old 20.09.2012, 01:01
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Re: You Tube refuses to remove video

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I'm reading a lot of high brow rhetoric on free speech but we actually live in a country where denial of the holocaust is a crime. Switzerland together with Austria, Belgium, the Czech Republic, France, Germany, Hungary, Israel, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Poland, Portugal and Romania have laws that outlaw all forms of holocaust denial. That means that writing an article or producing a film that questions the holocaust could land you in jail e.g. the British Historian David Irving.

Now I'm probably in the majority of people who think that this limitation on 'Free Speech' is fair enough, since those that challenge such an immutable fact are either mad or bad, and both deserve to be censored. Maybe I just believe that my right to free speech should come with certain responsibilities.

I think we had a thread on here a few months ago about how far free speech should go. In that I said I can see the pros and cons of the European mentality and the american way. Here we need to accept the global cultural differences. The video was made in America and this is allowed there. While I totally disapprove of people making videos to cause trouble, it is not against the law and I agree they Youtube shouldn't give in to the vocal minority.

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So how far can you go in the USA with sacrosant free speech?

Can you refer to Mit Romney's speeches and call him rude names in public: would the police then arrest you? Wouldn't there be possible charges of incitement to riot?

Why has the film maker been arrested if he was just using free speech to insult Islamism? Are you allowed to slander Jesus Christ?

It ain't so different when you think about it.

Have a google for america's most hated family. Here's a paragraph from their wiki page:

The Most Hated Family in America includes footage of members of the Westboro Baptist Church picketing at funerals of United States soldiers.[19][32] The organisation members hold signs blaming deaths of U.S. soldiers on the country's tolerance towards homosexuality and LGBT people.[19][32] Westboro Baptist Church members believe that these deaths are caused by God as retribution for the immorality of the U.S.;[33] stating the soldiers were "struck down by God for fighting for a depraved nation".[34]
They attend the funeral of a soldier Kevin Zeigler who died at the age of 31 while attempting to disable a bomb in Iraq.[19] Referring to improvised explosive devices, Westboro Baptist Church hold signs reading, "Thank God for IEDs".[35] Protest signs carried by members of the organisation at the funeral, including six-year-old children, state: "Thank God For Dead Soldiers", "Don't Worship The Dead" and "Fag Marines".[19] Another placard criticises Princess Diana for her friendship with the LGBT community, stating, "Royal Whore In Hell".[19][35] Princess Diana is criticised by the organisation as a "fag enabler".[35][36] Additional signs read "God hates fags",[37] "Thank God for Dead Soldiers",[38] "God is America's Terrorist",[39] and, "Fag Troops".[32] The Westboro Baptist Church members reveled in the September 11 attacks and stated they were punishment for the country's "fornication and lust".[17] The group also protests outside the local synagogue[38] and holds signs which state that, "Jews worship the rectum".[32]
Theroux interviews members of the Phelps family including Fred Phelps (called "Gramps" by members of the organisation) and Shirley Phelps-Roper.[40] Theroux asks Fred Phelps, "Isn't it an act of presumption, when you don't have all the information about all the other churches, to assume you have privileged access to Grace?"; Phelps responds, "Oh, I know all there is to know about 'em."[40] When Theroux asks him how he knows this, Phelps answers, "I'm not going to keep on talking to you. I know what you are. you're an evil. I don't even wanna go there. Good luck to ya!"[40]


Again in the USA a group went to the burial of a marine and said "Thank God for IEDs". "Thank God For Dead Soldiers", "Don't Worship The Dead" and "Fag Marines"

Now for me what they did was waaay more offensive than a stupid amateur film....
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Old 20.09.2012, 01:06
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Re: You Tube refuses to remove video

OK, I have read this thread through. Somewhere at the beginning I was wondering if I should watch the video before making a comment. From comments on here from people who have watched it, I will not, not my cup of Tea.
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Old 20.09.2012, 01:56
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Re: You Tube refuses to remove video

Good to hear they did not remove it. The film is crap and if anyone gets insulted by that film then they are seriously insecure about their religion and their God.

Let their God who is great! sort out the infidels when they die no need for humans in this life to interfere those angry should try trusting in their own God that would be a start.
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Old 20.09.2012, 08:38
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Re: You Tube refuses to remove video

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So how far can you go in the USA with sacrosant free speech?

Can you refer to Mit Romney's speeches and call him rude names in public: would the police then arrest you? Wouldn't there be possible charges of incitement to riot?

Why has the film maker been arrested if he was just using free speech to insult Islamism? Are you allowed to slander Jesus Christ?

It ain't so different when you think about it.
Answers to your questions:

No, police would not arrest you for calling him rude names. You're entitled to your opinion and you're not inciting anyone to riot. You're simply expressing your opinion, as is everyone else in this election year. After all, if the candidates themselves can sling the mud, why can't you?

He broke his previous conviction conditions of not using the Internet as well as a few other things.

Yes, you can slander Jesus Christ all you want. People might not like it, but they won't go around smashing up homes and businesses just because you do because they understand you have freedom of speech and a right to your own opinion.
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Old 20.09.2012, 08:50
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Re: You Tube refuses to remove video

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Let their God who is great! sort out the infidels when they die no need for humans in this life to interfere those angry should try trusting in their own God that would be a start.
And may those who have problems with their periods find ways to make them natural again.
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Old 20.09.2012, 08:51
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Re: You Tube refuses to remove video

Many of your statements have shaken me. I am not in favour of bowing to stupid ignorant protesters either, but I do believe we should all try and live peacefully with each other.

But after looking at the scale of the Muslim protests around the world, and the levels of hate shown by these "religious" people, I still believe leaving the video online is making a bad situation worse.

I haven't seen the video, I don't think it is necessary, nor will it help me. Islamism forbids any caricature of Mohammed, and this film does exactly that. At the same time the film portrays Mohammed in a very poor light, which will upset Muslims even more. In our Bible there is a passage somewhere forbidding "the making of craven images of God" so how can we dismiss one idea while accepting another?

Finally, and I am really fed up with seeing these riots popping up everywhere, what purpose does it serve to leave the video online? The USA has made a point about free speech, and yet this video will only continue to inflame the situation. There is nothing more to achieve, only to convince poorly educated people, that you are truly Satan.
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Old 20.09.2012, 09:14
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Re: You Tube refuses to remove video

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I haven't seen the video, I don't think it is necessary, nor will it help me. Islamism forbids any caricature of Mohammed, and this film does exactly that. At the same time the film portrays Mohammed in a very poor light, which will upset Muslims even more. In our Bible there is a passage somewhere forbidding "the making of craven images of God" so how can we dismiss one idea while accepting another?
We don't. There are no "craven images of God" because we don't know what he/she/it looks like. There are however, many images of Jesus Christ who you could call the Christian Prophet, yet do you see Christians getting upset? No.

I can understand Muslims being upset by this and fully respect their right to protest. But it should be done peacefully, not by rioting. That I find unacceptable. It's always the knee jerk reaction to any mention of anything that doesn't follow the Islamic creed and they need to realise that not everyone in the world shares their view.

By the way, has anyone heard that Muslims in the US have been protesting/rioting over this?
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Old 20.09.2012, 09:16
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Re: You Tube refuses to remove video

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Many of your statements have shaken me. I am not in favour of bowing to stupid ignorant protesters either, but I do believe we should all try and live peacefully with each other.

But after looking at the scale of the Muslim protests around the world, and the levels of hate shown by these "religious" people, I still believe leaving the video online is making a bad situation worse.
I normally try not to respond to your posts, but I'm all for free speech, so I'll jump in. This bit is fair enough, you're entitled to your opinion.

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I haven't seen the video, I don't think it is necessary, nor will it help me.
Because ignorance is the better option? How is it better to make judgments based on the effect of a video than on its actual content?

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Islamism forbids any caricature of Mohammed, and this film does exactly that.


Whoops, my mistake. It's a pretty ridiculous ban, and it's very much at odds with the basis of Western society. They'll just have to learn to live with it.

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At the same time the film portrays Mohammed in a very poor light, which will upset Muslims even more. In our Bible there is a passage somewhere forbidding "the making of craven images of God" so how can we dismiss one idea while accepting another?
Here I would like to point out that your God is not necessarily the god of everyone on this forum, in this country, in the West, etc. He's certainly not mine.

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Finally, and I am really fed up with seeing these riots popping up everywhere, what purpose does it serve to leave the video online? The USA has made a point about free speech, and yet this video will only continue to inflame the situation. There is nothing more to achieve, only to convince poorly educated people, that you are truly Satan.
The USA has made no point whatsoever. American laws (ideally) restrict the authority of the government, and the government has no legal basis for demanding that Google pull the video. So they haven't made that demand. Google, on the other hand, has taken a stand of sorts, but you cannot equate them with the USA.
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Old 20.09.2012, 09:28
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Re: You Tube refuses to remove video

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Many of your statements have shaken me. I am not in favour of bowing to stupid ignorant protesters either, but I do believe we should all try and live peacefully with each other.

But after looking at the scale of the Muslim protests around the world, and the levels of hate shown by these "religious" people, I still believe leaving the video online is making a bad situation worse.

I haven't seen the video, I don't think it is necessary, nor will it help me. Islamism forbids any caricature of Mohammed, and this film does exactly that. At the same time the film portrays Mohammed in a very poor light, which will upset Muslims even more. In our Bible there is a passage somewhere forbidding "the making of craven images of God" so how can we dismiss one idea while accepting another?

Finally, and I am really fed up with seeing these riots popping up everywhere, what purpose does it serve to leave the video online? The USA has made a point about free speech, and yet this video will only continue to inflame the situation. There is nothing more to achieve, only to convince poorly educated people, that you are truly Satan.
you don't have to like the US concept of "free speech", but it is one of the reasons why over 300 million people have chosen to live there, including Muslims. this stupid little video is not inflaming anything -ignorance, oppression and poverty is.
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Old 20.09.2012, 09:36
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Re: You Tube refuses to remove video

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I can't get my head around this, Google will continue to inflame the situation in the west as long as the film is available. People are dying out there! Just remove it, and now!
I disagree on every level. First remove this. Then what next? Worldwide shariah law?
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Old 20.09.2012, 09:40
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Re: You Tube refuses to remove video

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In our Bible there is a passage somewhere forbidding "the making of craven images of God" so how can we dismiss one idea while accepting another?
I suggest you watch "Life of Brian".

Blessed are the cheesemakers
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Old 20.09.2012, 09:42
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Re: You Tube refuses to remove video

The biggest problem with catering to this violence and removing the video is that it starts a precedent and once that happens everything becomes grey. Where would it stop after that? Anything that a religious group finds offensive would then be taken down? Would we have to remove a video that offended pro lifers? Gay and Lesbian, Straight people? This world is full of people who have different ideas, values and beliefs and it is each of their rights to express themselves no matter how it makes someone else feel.
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Old 20.09.2012, 09:43
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Re: You Tube refuses to remove video

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.....cut.....

Islamism forbids any caricature of Mohammed, and this film does exactly that. At the same time the film portrays Mohammed in a very poor light, which will upset Muslims even more. In our Bible there is a passage somewhere forbidding "the making of craven images of God" so how can we dismiss one idea while accepting another?

...cut.....There is nothing more to achieve, only to convince poorly educated people, that you are truly Satan.
I find this interesting. My sister, an artist, has Muslim folk buy paintings, and they are against ANY image .... portraits, birds, animals ... they buy only paintings "without faces", ie. flowers, landscapes, colours & inanimate objects.

If anything shows Mohammed in a "poor light" - should that make a difference to the believers in him? Is Mohammed not above petty human reflections? Does he realy need to be "defended" as though unable to differentiate human fallibilities?

The Catholic church has images of Jesus Christ hanging dead on a cross, other christian believers in a living Christ do not destroy the Catholic`s images. Same with the C/church having their other images, forbidden in the Ten Commandments, but not causing death and mayhem by rioting "other believers".

This mass hysteria over an amateurish, obviously trouble-making attempt at free publicity - (and wow is it getting attention now) - be relegated as the piece of junk it is, and not taken seriously.

It would have died a quiet, natural and ignorant death if Muslims had just ignored it as being beneath their dignity.
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