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  #41  
Old 29.09.2012, 12:38
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Re: the price of drinks out!!!

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I think it's as much "sticker shock" as anything. There are certain (monetary) numbers that we seem prepared to accept as having better value, which is used (abused) more heavily in some of the places "we" come from and makes us think the value we got then was much greater than what we get now.

Your example (and Confloozled's partial one earlier) is something like that. Somehow, we stomach paying "a fiver" for something easier than some other amounts, same goes with things that are 0.99 or 0.95. If you had to pay $2 (or £2) for a burger at McD's, you somehow feel it is FAR more expensive than paying $1.99 (I see commercials for the £1.99 "value menu" all the time on the UK channels). This was something I remember from my (fairly short, very basic) economics class way back when.



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So - hubby works in "hospitality". He makes here more than twice what he'd make doing the same job in the US. (Heck, he makes more than twice what I made as an Optician in the US when I was his age). Paying much more (but less than twice) what we would pay for same / similar items in the US strikes me funny too... but when I think about it later, regardless of the reasons why things cost so much, it makes it more okay.

So, think about it. YES, it costs more but is it really less actual value compared to your salary compared to elsewhere? (Remember, we're talking about drinks here, not your favorite SUV or house, or whatever - that's a different kettle entirely)
In the context of the thread that is a tired argument. Alcohol prices can be 3x or more what it costs in the rest of the UK/EU, and are themselves pretty unique vs other food prices, so the salary argument is moot. Alcohol has a uniquely huge markup here that is often disproportionate with the living costs, and there is little justification for it imo.
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  #42  
Old 29.09.2012, 17:10
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Re: the price of drinks out!!!

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Ive seen both. the 4cl arent 12 chf though, usually closer to 16 or 17 CHF...
Well I'll take your word for it though I've never been given a 2cl whiskey unless I've specifically asked it but all I've got is anecdotal evidence. Also pricing for whiskey various enormously on what you buy and where you buy it.

Where I work for instance our basic ) (ie undrinkable without a mixer) is 9.20 for 4cl while JD costs a little more and our "luxury" whiskeys cost around 14chf. So 16-17 chf in larger cities or in a "fancy" bar wouldn't really surprise me. You have to remember with fancy whiskeys that there is not an (normally) enormous demand for it so you lose the bulk purchase savings.

I understand that for many on here that prices are incredibly high (especially for those from the US where alcohol is fairly cheap) but for me personally (as I've explained) it's relatively cheap. Since working in the bar where I work I've also come to appreciate many of the "extra" costs that I just simply didn't think about before.

Just my opinion of course and I'm guessing not many agree with me.
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  #43  
Old 29.09.2012, 17:22
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Re: the price of drinks out!!!

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In the context of the thread that is a tired argument. Alcohol prices can be 3x or more what it costs in the rest of the UK/EU, and are themselves pretty unique vs other food prices, so the salary argument is moot. Alcohol has a uniquely huge markup here that is often disproportionate with the living costs, and there is little justification for it imo.
If you think Switzerland is disproportionate, don't ever go out for a night on the piss anywhere in Scandinavia. You'll come home bankrupt and sober.

We were over in Norway for a wedding and almost gagged on the price of drinks in any form at the pre-wedding night out and this wasn't in some trendy bar in a city. Switzerland in no way prepared us for those prices!
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  #44  
Old 29.09.2012, 17:25
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Re: the price of drinks out!!!

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Well I'll take your word for it though I've never been given a 2cl whiskey unless I've specifically asked it but all I've got is anecdotal evidence. Also pricing for whiskey various enormously on what you buy and where you buy it.

Where I work for instance our basic ) (ie undrinkable without a mixer) is 9.20 for 4cl while JD costs a little more and our "luxury" whiskeys cost around 14chf. So 16-17 chf in larger cities or in a "fancy" bar wouldn't really surprise me. You have to remember with fancy whiskeys that there is not an (normally) enormous demand for it so you lose the bulk purchase savings.

I understand that for many on here that prices are incredibly high (especially for those from the US where alcohol is fairly cheap) but for me personally (as I've explained) it's relatively cheap. Since working in the bar where I work I've also come to appreciate many of the "extra" costs that I just simply didn't think about before.

Just my opinion of course and I'm guessing not many agree with me.
The prices are only paid because the licensed premises get away with it and there are enough people who just pay up. Regarding the supposed extra costs that need to be covered its more an indication of poorly designed processes and overheads these places could charge a lot less and make more profit if they really wanted to offer a proper service and eliminated their inefficiencies.

This is the reason I do my best to NOT drink out in Zurich but go to local places in Winterthur or Germany where there is much more reasonable charges
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  #45  
Old 29.09.2012, 17:33
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Re: the price of drinks out!!!

This is why I don't go out very much. If I get together with a group of friends, usually we buy beer from the local Coop. Usually, something is on sale or red-stickered, it's affordable. The biggest obstacle is getting it cold. After we buy it, usually we just hang out and socialize in the park.
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  #46  
Old 29.09.2012, 17:40
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Re: the price of drinks out!!!

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In the context of the thread that is a tired argument. Alcohol prices can be 3x or more what it costs in the rest of the UK/EU, and are themselves pretty unique vs other food prices, so the salary argument is moot. Alcohol has a uniquely huge markup here that is often disproportionate with the living costs, and there is little justification for it imo.

That's not what I meant to say.

I simply meant that for whatever reason ("psychology of numbers" is one explanation), it seems much worse than it actually is. Paying $3.50 for a beer when making $7/hr (roughly $15k/yr) is a worse value than paying 5chf for a glass of wine when making 120k chf /yr, wouldn't you say?

Sticker shock more than reality.
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  #47  
Old 29.09.2012, 17:44
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Re: the price of drinks out!!!

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Alcohol prices can be 3x or more what it costs in the rest of the UK/EU
Last time I checked, Sweden (and other Nordic countries) was in the EU, and makes bar prices here look dirt cheap!

And beer in Italy is about the same as here.

Tom
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  #48  
Old 29.09.2012, 17:59
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Re: the price of drinks out!!!

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Last time I checked, Sweden (and other Nordic countries) was in the EU, and makes bar prices here look dirt cheap!

And beer in Italy is about the same as here.

Tom
Ummm there's a reason for that. Tax... Here ist pure markup...
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  #49  
Old 29.09.2012, 18:09
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Re: the price of drinks out!!!

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Ummm there's a reason for that. Tax... Here ist pure markup...
Nope - the mark up is eaten into by higher rent and wage costs.
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  #50  
Old 29.09.2012, 18:12
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Re: the price of drinks out!!!

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A pint of beer in a UK pub will be anything between £2 and £4 depending on location. The North is where the cheaper prices are to be found. That's between 3 and 6 CHF.

Marmaris in Basel used to have large beers for just over CHF5. But these days you will be hard pressed to find a small beer for less than CHF5 or a large for less than CHF8. Especially in Zürich.

If anyone knows of such places I'm all ears of course.

Cheers,
Nick
Strauss Bar on Langstrasse 5 something for a half litre. 5.40 I think. Cafe Enge also 5 something. 5.60 I think.

I was in the North West a couple of weeks ago - Manchester and Preston - and most places seem to be charging over £3 a pint now. Prices seem to be going up in the UK. If it were still CHF 2 to the pound the prices wouldn't look half as bad in my view, but then neither would the salaries that no one seems to complain about.
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  #51  
Old 29.09.2012, 18:39
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Re: the price of drinks out!!!

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And beer in Italy is about the same as here.

Tom
There is a reason for that Italians make crap beer and its not that popular in Italy!
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  #52  
Old 29.09.2012, 19:17
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Re: the price of drinks out!!!

Mark Ups...

Foood is between 50% and & 60%. When you get a menu in the 'out of city centres' districts, soup and/or salad plus main for 14.50 - 15.50, the mark up is 50% plus.

Bier is mostly 55% - 65%, again depending on location which again leads to the rental costs.

Spirits go from about 60% to as high as 75%, again depending on location, amount of staff, ambiance etc.Alsot you will find that a lot of bars, not pubs, just pore and don't measure, no optics/dipensers, the American way so to speak. In many ways, like this, you're getting value for money. In our Bar you never get just a 4cl. (Hic, Burrrrrp!)

Cheers all, enjoy your nights out.

Bi Bi F'now.

GREG
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Old 29.09.2012, 19:50
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Re: the price of drinks out!!!

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There is a reason for that Italians make crap beer and its not that popular in Italy!
Never been to Italy, nor known any Italians, have you?

Tom
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Old 29.09.2012, 19:57
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Re: the price of drinks out!!!

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Never been to Italy, nor known any Italians, have you?

Tom
Wrong on both counts!

They do however make excellent red wines
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  #55  
Old 29.09.2012, 21:09
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Re: the price of drinks out!!!

Do you get as annoyed when you pick up your Swiss salary at the end of the month?

Also there is a simple solution, don't go out.
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Old 29.09.2012, 22:30
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Re: the price of drinks out!!!

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Strauss Bar on Langstrasse 5 something for a half litre. 5.40 I think. Cafe Enge also 5 something. 5.60 I think.

I was in the North West a couple of weeks ago - Manchester and Preston - and most places seem to be charging over £3 a pint now. Prices seem to be going up in the UK. If it were still CHF 2 to the pound the prices wouldn't look half as bad in my view, but then neither would the salaries that no one seems to complain about.
I live and work in the UK and yes prices are going up!! We come to Southern Switzerland usually 3 times a year, often with an extended break in the summer. This year we weren't anywhere near as shocked at the prices as we usually are. We may be getting used to them of course, but in the mountains in Valais 2 small beers is £5, just a little more for 2 glasses of fendant - with a great view! It's about equivalent for the same in some cheesy wine bar in Birmingham where I work, with a view on the Bullring! (sorry Birmingham!). Meat is the only thing we still don't do in Switzerland, although we bring it in from France or Italy!! Considering the extra that I would earn in Switzerland if I worked there, you really can't complain If it weren't for family here I'd move over there in a heartbeat!
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  #57  
Old 30.09.2012, 00:09
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Re: the price of drinks out!!!

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Last time I checked, Sweden (and other Nordic countries) was in the EU, and makes bar prices here look dirt cheap!

And beer in Italy is about the same as here.

Tom
When I live in Scandinavia, i'll moan about their prices.

For the record and to clarify earlier statements; I don't think all Swiss alcohol prices are bad, just some select venues which really extract the Michael compared to everywhere else, often in the same regional location as notably cheaper places. Yes, "not going there" is indeed an option (thanks to the enlightened souls who suggested that, i'll be sure to bear it in mind in zukunft), but sometimes that's where the parties are. That, however, makes the moan no less valid in my eyes, whether you want to read it or not.

As a matter of interest i'd love to see the profit margins for various pubs/clubs int he various venues/locations and compare them to see whether it confirms or shoots down my opinions on those who overcharge... would make for some very interesting reading.
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Old 30.09.2012, 09:46
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Re: the price of drinks out!!!

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When I live in Scandinavia, i'll moan about their prices.

For the record and to clarify earlier statements; I don't think all Swiss alcohol prices are bad, just some select venues which really extract the Michael compared to everywhere else, often in the same regional location as notably cheaper places. Yes, "not going there" is indeed an option (thanks to the enlightened souls who suggested that, i'll be sure to bear it in mind in zukunft), but sometimes that's where the parties are. That, however, makes the moan no less valid in my eyes, whether you want to read it or not.

As a matter of interest i'd love to see the profit margins for various pubs/clubs int he various venues/locations and compare them to see whether it confirms or shoots down my opinions on those who overcharge... would make for some very interesting reading.
I think you are absolutely right. There is a shocking mark up on drinks at popular venues compared to the old fella's pub next door but in my experience of bars around the world, Switzerland is no different. Drinking at a trendy wine bar in London, New York, Sydney, Palma, Milan, Vancouver you are also quickly relieved of an extortionate amount of money for a vodka and tonic compared to the bar round the corner populated by old men wearing beige.

I'm not saying it's right but I think it's the same tricks employed by other industries, for example, you buy a ski jacket made by North Face and pay way over the odds for pretty much the same jacket made by a less "trendy" brand.

There are plenty of numpties willing to fork out for the trendy version of anything so there will be plenty of business owners happy to take their money. It will never change.
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Old 30.09.2012, 09:54
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Re: the price of drinks out!!!

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There is a reason for that Italians make crap beer and its not that popular in Italy!
There is an American-run Biergarten/Restaurant that features mostly Italian-made craft beers in Zurich, Brunau. You should try some of them- they're really very good. But with the quality of wine produced in Italy, do they need to focus on beer down there?
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Old 30.09.2012, 16:28
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Re: the price of drinks out!!!

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I do not know where you were but that is simply not true. I am using New Jersey as an example, 15 minutes outside of NYC. The markup on wine in a restaurant is usually by percentage. The percentage is anywhere between 50 (rare) and 200 percent. So a 12 dollar bottle is usually around 24-30. Now if you are actually in NYC, you will tend to see higher percentages although there are still restaurants with wines in the 20-30 range. My observance here is that they just add 35-45 onto the retail price. It is terrible for low priced wines but can actually be great when it comes to higher priced wines. Case in point 170 CHF magnum retail, restaurant price 210! Slightly over a 20% markup.

Just to point out. In the US they pour usually 5-6 glasses out of a bottle as opposed to here where it is 7.5. There is usually no price advantage to buying wine as a bottle here as it is simply 7.5 times the glass price.

If you want a great deal on wine in Zurich, go to Expovina but not on Friday or Saturdays.

Yes, you are correct about the income percentage.
The markup includes the following...any town I have been to in the Midwest, well, I think it's best not to list everywhere I have traveled to and had this experience. But, most recently I was in Napa, in July, and found this even more true. I can't say that all bottles, everwhere are marked up 10 times the retail cost, but it is definitley 30 to 50 dollars over what the retail price paid for is.
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