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  #81  
Old 01.10.2012, 17:07
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Re: EuropaPark - 2nd hand smoke (family fun)

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I don't like the "you're a smoker, therefore intrinsically evil and uneducated/low class", never liked this arrogant approach, never will.
Not all smokers are uneducated and/or poor, but the poor and uneducated are far more likely to be smokers and far less likely to quit smoking. (In America, at least) Make of that what you will.
  #82  
Old 01.10.2012, 17:21
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Re: EuropaPark - 2nd hand smoke (family fun)

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  #83  
Old 01.10.2012, 17:25
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Re: EuropaPark - 2nd hand smoke (family fun)

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We're talking passive, not direct. Direct, CAN have an affect, afterall, 1 in 4 cancers are smoking related, so yes, 25% of cancers are smoking related. Why everyone seems so focused on the 25% as opposed to the 75% is beyond me.
you are abusing the statistics here, close to 90% of lung cancers are caused by smoking. and, with the possible exception of pancreatic cancer, there is no greater death sentence from cancer than lung cancer.

again, to me the entire equation focuses on respect and consideration. I fully agree that it's on me if I choose to sit or stand next to a person that is already smoking, but the flipside is also true - it's on them if they choose to sit or stand next to me and then try to light up. anstand cuts both ways, after all.
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  #84  
Old 01.10.2012, 17:27
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Re: EuropaPark - 2nd hand smoke (family fun)

And so ... while you`re all focused on the strict and "healthy" American anti-smoking laws .......... most of Colorado is being "Fracked" to extract gas, which is contaminating their ground water to the extent that it is actually explosive and undrinkable, destroying vegetation and animal life, causing illnesses and extreme Asthma in otherwise healthy people.

President Obama is quite proud of having "released" so many thousands of hectares for this gas extraction - to enable America to become independent of imported oil from troublesome nations.

But, at least everyone is protected against being forced to inhale 2nd hand cigarette smoke.
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Old 01.10.2012, 17:28
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Re: EuropaPark - 2nd hand smoke (family fun)

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Old 01.10.2012, 17:31
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Re: EuropaPark - 2nd hand smoke (family fun)

I am a non-smoker, have two boys 8,9 and we have had a couple of enjoyable visits to EuropaPark recently.

I can't recall and nuisance from secondary tobacco smoke at all.

I am wondering whether you allow your kids to grill (bbq) here - kids love to grill bread on sticks in the fire (snakebread) - but they get a bit smokey and need smutty in the process?

I always insist mine put out their cigarettes first, because they need both hands to be free to handle the sticks safely.....
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Old 01.10.2012, 17:34
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Re: EuropaPark - 2nd hand smoke (family fun)

No, that's not a myth. And the carbon monoxide stays in your blood stream, system for days. As carbon dioxide is released from the body, carbon monoxide does not release, so your blood cells cannot collect more Oxygen until it finally dissipates. That's just one of the more pleasant, scientifically proven negative health effects associated with smoking.

I wonder if anyone has ever thought about the fact that smoking is a way of ensuring that the Government keeps getting their taxes (lots and lots of taxes) from a base that may not be paying much based on income. Also a way of keeping the uneducated hooked and continuing to work to pay for the habit. And the habit, helps reduce the monotony of the work. As the Swiss have to pay for their own health care, then why should the Government care as much about their citizens smoking as the US would where the Government is now going to be paying for health care. Next is making unhealthy choices pay, where smokers (and yes obese) pay more for their health care.

If anyone thinks that smoking has not been convincingly proven to be unhealthy (and a killer) - they must be living under a rock. I talked to my parents last night (they are in their early 70's). Every friend they had when they were young are now dead. Unfortunately the sins of youth, such as smoking, are paid for when you are an adult.

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I'm serious.
I've, for example, not seen a smoker at the various MTB-rides organized by "Eire".
I admit there is probably no direct correlation, as most smokers don't have an "active livestyle" (only active smoking ;-)) and if you smoked and exercised a lot, that may unset some of the negative consequences.
(I knew a sergeant in the German army who was like that)

But back in school I learned that smoking produces carbon-monoxide, which the smoker inhales and which attaches to the red blood-cells (at a factor of 300 times better than oxygen attaches to them).
As a result, the body can't be optimally supplied with oxygen anymore and the overall ability to perform good at sports is reduced.
Is that a myth?
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Old 01.10.2012, 17:37
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Re: EuropaPark - 2nd hand smoke (family fun)

Every friend they had THAT SMOKED is now dead. Sorry missed that key point.
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Old 01.10.2012, 17:38
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Re: EuropaPark - 2nd hand smoke (family fun)

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For family fun and bonding, go walking in the mountains

No queus, no low-class smokers, lots of truly fresh air!

And allow the children to experience some natural exuberance and learn to appreciate the country they are living in?

For the cost of entry to Europark, treat the family to a really good first class dinner afterwards, in a good establishment, not frequented by those dregs of society who need to be continuously sucking on tobacco!

Good idea, neh?
Pathetic!
People put their hands/tissues in front of their mouths when they sneeze in public areas to try to avoid spreading the disease to another. And you’re telling me it is fine to blow the smoke into someone else’s face? Of course you are, because it is not legalized.
Just for courtesy sake, you even don't need a law for that.
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  #90  
Old 01.10.2012, 17:38
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Re: EuropaPark - 2nd hand smoke (family fun)

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I wonder if anyone has ever thought about the fact that smoking is a way of ensuring that the Government keeps getting their taxes (lots and lots of taxes) from a base that may not be paying much based on income. Also a way of keeping the uneducated hooked and continuing to work to pay for the habit. And the habit, helps reduce the monotony of the work.
Actually, I know plenty of well-educated, wealthy, upper-class smokers.

You clearly hang out with the wrong crowd!

Tom
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  #91  
Old 01.10.2012, 17:40
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Re: EuropaPark - 2nd hand smoke (family fun)

Oh dear
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  #92  
Old 01.10.2012, 18:02
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Re: EuropaPark - 2nd hand smoke (family fun)

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Pathetic!
People put their hands/tissues in front of their mouths when they sneeze in public areas to try to avoid spreading the disease to another. And you’re telling me it is fine to blow the smoke into someone else’s face? Of course you are, because it is not legalized.
Just for courtesy sake, you even don't need a law for that.
Oh thank you for that post quoting what I wrote - I`d been trying to find your profile to ask for what reason you "groaned" at that post of mine?

So now, with this rather garbled post of yours in reply, I could finally hit that "groan" button. (My very first groan since joining EF! but well deserved, I must say)

I was advocating a far healthier outing, with less stress,more rewards, and you come up with something about sneezing into hands/tissues?
(I do hope you use a tissue when sneezing and not your hands, unless you immediately wash them, as you are then transporting those diseases of yours to door handles, money you handle, and other places the public put their hands, who then touch their own faces when sneezing, and so on and so forth)

People like you are confusing, and confused.

Did I tell you that it is okay to blow smoke into someone`s face?

I realise you are a newbie member, but please attempt to clarify what you wrote as a reply. You are aware of what a "reply" is? It is in answer to what you have quoted.
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  #93  
Old 01.10.2012, 18:13
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Re: EuropaPark - 2nd hand smoke (family fun)

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Actually, I know plenty of well-educated, wealthy, upper-class smokers.

You clearly hang out with the wrong crowd!

Tom
Yes, I too prefer hanging out with well-educated, wealthy, upper class smokers, they are just so much more interesting to have discussions with, than narrow minded non-smokers, who seem to be focused on 2nd hand information of perceived threats to their well-being but insist on ignoring the more important, invisible, and more potent forms of carcinogens floating about them.

Actually the lower forms of life who smoke are also interesting, as they seem to have a broader outlook on life than their non-smoking superiors.

Incidentally, I have also noticed that these lower life forms appear to have healthier children - it could be that their children are forced out into the fresh air, unable to breathe in their houses, by the selfishness of their parents who are polluting the home? As opposed to being able to relax all day and night in front of television sets/laptops in their smoke free homes?
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Old 01.10.2012, 18:14
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Re: EuropaPark - 2nd hand smoke (family fun)

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Oh thank you for that post quoting what I wrote - I`d been trying to find your profile to ask for what reason you "groaned" at that post of mine?
Don't worry, Smoky. You can join my cabinet. Dealer has declared me the Swiss Defense Minister. You can be the Finance Minister.
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Old 01.10.2012, 18:30
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Re: EuropaPark - 2nd hand smoke (family fun)

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Also a way of keeping the uneducated...
Y'know, for someone with such an obvious superiority complex regarding the lower classes & the uneducated, your grammar and general syntax leave a lot to be desired.
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Old 01.10.2012, 19:12
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Re: EuropaPark - 2nd hand smoke (family fun)

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Every friend they had THAT SMOKED is now dead. Sorry missed that key point.
Well given their age, it is probably quite a sure bet many of their friends have succumbed to death irrelevant of smoking no?
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Old 01.10.2012, 19:46
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Re: EuropaPark - 2nd hand smoke (family fun)

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Don't worry, Smoky. You can join my cabinet. Dealer has declared me the Swiss Defense Minister. You can be the Finance Minister.
Oh thank you! But is it possible to change that to Minister of Health?
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Old 01.10.2012, 20:27
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Re: EuropaPark - 2nd hand smoke (family fun)

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Oh thank you for that post quoting what I wrote - I`d been trying to find your profile to ask for what reason you "groaned" at that post of mine?

So now, with this rather garbled post of yours in reply, I could finally hit that "groan" button. (My very first groan since joining EF! but well deserved, I must say)

I was advocating a far healthier outing, with less stress,more rewards, and you come up with something about sneezing into hands/tissues?
(I do hope you use a tissue when sneezing and not your hands, unless you immediately wash them, as you are then transporting those diseases of yours to door handles, money you handle, and other places the public put their hands, who then touch their own faces when sneezing, and so on and so forth)

People like you are confusing, and confused.

Did I tell you that it is okay to blow smoke into someone`s face?

I realise you are a newbie member, but please attempt to clarify what you wrote as a reply. You are aware of what a "reply" is? It is in answer to what you have quoted.
Smoky; nothing personal. I just didn't like your way of saying it as it sounded a bit mocking to me. Sorry if I made you feel offended.

I am not confused and not trying to confuse anyone, too. I am a smoker myself and a heavy smoker indeed. Yet I truly believe that we smokers are the ones who get under non-smokers' skin. I always try to stay away from any crowd while smoking. If I have to stay in the middle of a crowd, I do not smoke. As simple as that. But I witness so many people don't even bother. This is not unique to CH by the way. But I would expect CH and Swiss people to be more conscious about this given the overall public order in the country.

Most of us acknowledge the advantages of living here and admire CH. I was just amazed how this thread was about to turn into yet another CH is better, USA is worse, UK best thing. We should not fuel such discussions with counter arguments from different areas. The topic was smoking in public places. What does availability of a good public transport or education system in Switzerland have to do with it? Just comment on the topic as in my opinion every country has its own advantages and disadvantages. The rest is blah blah. Sorry to you, too, Mrs Defense Minister if you also felt offended.

Back to topic:
I cannot stand people telling the non-smokers to move away if they don't want to inhale the smoke or even playing the ignorant. Who needs to move that's the question. In this topic the OP (a non-smoker) had to stay in the line with some others who wanted to smoke. So be it; who are we to preach these people the hazards of smoking. It's their choice. People just expect them to show some respect. And more so since I assume they were well aware that the OP was there with his kids. What is respectful?

I would ask the man behind me that I will be smoking one in a few steps from the line so if he could keep my position.

Am I too demanding? Maybe. We are talking about ideals at the end of the day. And that's my ideal, others may have different ideals fair enough.

Ps: I have just promoted to a Junior member by the way just by replying to this thread.
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Old 01.10.2012, 21:38
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Re: EuropaPark - 2nd hand smoke (family fun)

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I also don't think examining the health aspects of the leading preventable cause of premature death in the world is "picking nits". Cigarettes aren't demonized because they're easily identified, but because, I repeat, they're the leading preventable cause of premature death. Automobile exhaust, which is incidentally less toxic than cigarette smoke, is a necessary byproduct of the internal combustion engine which society needs to function, and is continually improved so as to release less and less toxins whereas a smoking addiction benefits no one.
Actually, in the US, diabetes driven by obesity is quickly becoming far, far more of a health issue than smoking in terms of preventable death. Auto exhaust also includes diesel.... I don't think anyone defends cigs as healthy but, there are far greater health risks these days than smoke from an upwind puffer.
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Old 01.10.2012, 21:40
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Re: EuropaPark - 2nd hand smoke (family fun)

It's so typical for someone who can't debate the subject reasonably to go the cheap route of insulting and name-calling. There are obvious exceptions to everything. Read the statistics - the diseases linked to smoking, the long term effects on the body, enhanced aging, the definitive links between poverty and smoking (at least in the US), the link between depression and smoking.

I started this thread with a reasonable complaint in hopes that I could get some good advice (which I did get). I think these forums tend to be a way to feel strong and powerful with anonymity. I am not the type to smell a few wafts of smoke and freak out. This was way, way beyond that. Being out on a weekend with extended hours at the park for Halloween probably contributed to the extra 2nd-hand smoke experience.

Smoking is unique in that unlike alcohol or riding a bike without a helmet, it affects those who have to also partake in your risky habit (albeit at a lower dosage). But it seems that inevitably it is the non-smoker who has to leave. I pray that my children never light up or accept a cigarette from anyone and have the strength to say 'No thanks" when the majority are partaking. Your freedom to be you (and whatever you want to do) should include my (my family's) freedom to be free from you. That's tough to do when you are in public places where someone else chooses to light up with little regard for others.

Groan all you want, mentally flip me off - but I would say the same thing to anyone face to face. It makes my heart ache to see young children or pretty young girls smoking in their teens or early 20's thinking they are "dancing with the devil". I have friends and had relatives who smoke/smoked for years. Everyone of them wished they had never started and prayed that they had the strength to stop. When it is so accepted and justified and everywhere around you, it's even more difficult to ever stop.

Best regards,

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Y'know, for someone with such an obvious superiority complex regarding the lower classes & the uneducated, your grammar and general syntax leave a lot to be desired.
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