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Old 01.10.2012, 17:39
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Cinemas PATHE -- PATHEtic New Ways of Making Money [Stealing]

Yes, the crisis has finally pushed a company beyond the brink of normal business and in 2012 it is OK to appropriate on a whim.
For the impatient ones the PSA reads: DO NOT buy any loyalty/prepaid services from PATHE Suisse, as you are funding a thief.

Here goes the story - earlier this summer, my (pregnant) wife and I went to see "What to Expect When Expecting". We love going to the movies and it is the reason why three years ago we bought not one but two fidelity cards (prepaid entrances benefiting from discount). This way whoever had the card handy could buy tickets.

When we initially bought the cards, PATHE had no restrictions. You pay X francs to charge Y entries and that's it. Things were simple and despite the decline in service quality and increasing ticket prices, we frequented the cinema (mostly Balexert).

Lo and behold, the crisis has arrived and PATHE have unilaterally changed their terms & conditions. Whatever you do not use within a quarter is deemed used and you (the customer) has his/her pockets reset to zero. We never got a letter. Nobody cared to inform us with a leaflet or otherwise when we last recharged.

Embarrassment 1: Trying to use the cards
As mentioned, we decided to see the pregnancy flick.
Me: Two tickets, please
Cashier: This card is empty.
Me: Are you sure? Hm. Weird. Try this one (hands wife's card)
Cashier: No, this is empty, too.
Me: This is impossible - we have some left, I am sure. Can you please check?
Cashier: Yeah, you had some but they expired.
Me: Expired? Huh?
Cashier: Expired, monsieur, no longer there, gone. Pay cash or card for the tickets?
Me: Wait, there has to be a mistake... How do they expire?
Cashier: If you don't use them, they expire. Simple!
Me: But we recharged them couple of months ago...
Cashier: Yes, that's right. And since then, they expired. Buying tickets or recharging card or what do we do, monsieur?
Me: buy cash...

The cashier was as impolite as possible. After the movies, I wrote an email to PATHE using their "Contact Us" form. In hindsight, this must be linked to /dev/null or whatever trash folder they have. TWO MONTHS pass by with no reply.

Passing by Balexert one day, I asked at the cashier desk if there is a manager present. "No, why". I explain why and they tell me - send it again. One evening later and some LinkedIn searches, I finally discover an email of an actual person working at PATHE Balexert. I sent him a polite message, asking for reply or at least a fwd to someone who might be able to respond.

Embarrassment 2: Queue in Mr. U. T.
After bumping off a few Out-of-Office replies, I finally hit Mr. T's mailbox. The reply from him comes few hours past my email and reads:
Quote:
I understand your disappointment. I will investigate internally with our Marketing Dpt and see what we can do to help you.
Five reminder emails and almost 2 months later -- nothing. Total radio silence.

Strike 3: In the email in question, I suppressed all emotions and was as objective as possible, short and to the point. Also, was kind to suggest this might be an oversight on their side, offering them chance to fix prior to publishing this here (and few other expat fora). You see, they stole from me and I extended an olive branch. Time spent waving the olive branch tells me I was naive.

Both wife and I used to buy such prepaid cards as gifts to friends and colleagues. I wonder how many of those were greeted with "your gift card is empty".

To add insult to injury, the prepaid entry cards are called "PATHE Friends".
Yeah, right...

Last edited by mirfield; 02.10.2012 at 16:39. Reason: Removed Program Manager's Name
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Old 01.10.2012, 19:14
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Re: Cinemas PATHE -- PATHEtic New Ways of Making Money [Stealing]

I've heard of gift cards expiring after a year or two (something to do with accruals), but a couple of months is a bit much.

Maybe a message to K-Tipp (or whatever the Romande version is)?
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Old 01.10.2012, 19:17
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Re: Cinemas PATHE -- PATHEtic New Ways of Making Money [Stealing]

Good to know, will avoid such cards if I'm ever tempted. Sorry about your customer service nightmare...
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Old 01.10.2012, 23:55
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Re: Cinemas PATHE -- PATHEtic New Ways of Making Money [Stealing]

I agree with Mirfield. Send them a reminder (if you can forward the first email so that they see that you have sent that off ages ago) and tell them that you await their reply within 10 days and that you will contact the press and consumer magazines otherwise. As that kind of publicity is not what they are looking for this might do the trick.

Thank you for the heads-up and good luck with your complaint!
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Old 02.10.2012, 11:32
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Re: Cinemas PATHE -- PATHEtic New Ways of Making Money [Stealing]

Thank you guys for the support.

Following above advice, I just sent PATHE a reminder email, quoting this post. At this point in time, it is clear this more than just about the money but awful customer experience.

Let's see how this unravels - will keep you posted.
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Old 02.10.2012, 12:04
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Re: Cinemas PATHE -- PATHEtic New Ways of Making Money [Stealing]

Do they have a FB page? If so the powers that be tend to magically (and suddenly) sit up and take notice when a bunch of people start complaining there.
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Old 02.10.2012, 16:27
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Re: Cinemas PATHE -- PATHEtic New Ways of Making Money [Stealing]

Quote:
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Do they have a FB page? If so the powers that be tend to magically (and suddenly) sit up and take notice when a bunch of people start complaining there.
I can only guess that there was a conflict between their social strategy and their customer feedback some time ago. Yes, I did try to post there but my post never made it to public view which means one of two things: they either filter what is published or someone is on the lookout and deleting all things unpleasant. Either way, their FB page cannot stand links to our forum

UPDATE: As soon as I sent the reminder email with link to this thread, I received reply from the Marketing Department. Key message inside is
Quote:
Mr. T is absolutely not responsible of this matter. May I ask you kindly to remove his name. Mr. T is our Programing Manager and he is not involved in this kind of question.
Much to my regret, the forum does not allow modification/editing of the OP at this stage, so what I can do is the following:

Apologies for including the Program Director in the thread. He did however reply with the following promise
Quote:
I understand your disappointment. I will investigate internally with our Marketing Dpt and see what we can do to help you.
In any line of work if you acknowledge and claim understanding of an issue when personally addressed, it is only natural to follow-up. The Program Director never replied with a contact person who is taking over. He clearly set expectations on my side to hear back from him, which I never did.

It is beyond me if the Program Director ever contacted Marketing or not, if Marketing dropped the ball or not. I am a paying customer. PAYING, so I do not have to care how PATHE setup their operations.

As I am unable to edit the OP at this stage, I promise to edit the Program Director's name from all future threads and publications related to the matter.

The Marketing Department of PATHE included the following:
Quote:
I or the direction will give you personally a feedback this week.
Stay tuned, I will be posting updates as I receive them.

Last edited by mirfield; 02.10.2012 at 16:40. Reason: Removed Program Manager's name
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Old 02.10.2012, 16:53
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Re: Cinemas PATHE -- PATHEtic New Ways of Making Money [Stealing]

I absolutely understand where you are coming from. I've on several occasions encountered similar incidents in Switzerland and got insanely mad due to the outright rude customer service I've received.

By now I just take it with a pinch of salt and generally just accept to be treated like shit as a paying customer. If/When I finally can't handle it anymore, I'll leave Switzerland, but for now I just put up with it
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Old 02.10.2012, 16:57
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Re: Cinemas PATHE -- PATHEtic New Ways of Making Money [Stealing]

utorrent is your friend.... always available, always friendly and doesn't expire (or so I am told).
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Old 02.10.2012, 17:30
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Re: Cinemas PATHE -- PATHEtic New Ways of Making Money [Stealing]

First off, THANK YOU to the Moderator Team for taking notice and editing out the name of the Program Director.

To @alanmack and @naza - my wife and I are insanely patient people. What most businesses in Switzerland do not get is that beyond a certain point it is no longer all about the money but the poor experience and how long these last. And how long one can talk about it.

In the short days this has been posted here, it has been viewed by 400+ people. This is 400+ of your customer base. You block me from Facebook, I will find other places to post to audience that matter. Every search engine will index it and people who google "Pathe Friends" will land at one of them.

This has to do a lot with the "old school" marketing people who are incapable to survive in the social era. This has to do with companies hiring inexperienced people to handle their social game before the businesses are ready to jump in it. We can long and in depth discuss the roots of this issue so prevalent in Switzerland but either way, customers should *not* be silent.

Again, thank you to the Moderator Team for doing what I could not do and let's see what PATHE Friends reply with...
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Old 03.10.2012, 12:39
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Re: Cinemas PATHE -- PATHEtic New Ways of Making Money [Stealing]

The forum and readers here fast accumulated 500+ reads since posted. I attribute the fast replies from PATHE to you guys and would like to thank you.

Latest update is reply from Cinemas Manager, who is polite to follow protocol and reply in French to a English letter. The tone of the letter suggest this was perhaps proofed by Legal, so I am not looking into the technicalities or intended rebuttal.

In all their efforts, the loyalty cards do not carry the most important information. The posters (perhaps) do but who has one of them posters in their wallet? Yeah, I thought so. Attached is picture of the cards in question - edited is the serial number alone. Nowhere does the card read that "Your entries are only valid X months".

I am most concerned with the lack of flexibility - yes, we'll give you 6 free passes but no, we cannot refund you. A touch of common sense will tell you that if my *pregnant* wife and I saw a movie in June, we are not likely to be in cinema shape in October or the months to follow before the passes expire themselves. Well, I guess this is none of their concern -- for as long as this whole story goes away quickly?

As promised, I will be sharing the updates with you guys, so pasted below is the reply I received for your consideration and evaluation. I will consider if I should take PATHE's "offer" - what would you do?

Quote:
Cher Monsieur,
Tout d’abord nous souhaitons vous présenter nos plus sincères excuses concernant les délais inhabituellement longs pour la gestion de votre demande.

Nous attirons votre attention sur le fait que la validité de nos abonnements friends 6 mois est mentionnée sur nos affiches tarifaires, sur notre site internet et que le délai vous est indiqué par nos caissiers lors de chacun de vos chargements, ceci afin que vous puissiez profiter d’une sortie cinéma à un prix de Fr. 15.00 au lieu de Fr. 19.00. Nos abonnements Friends ont toujours comporté une validité, depuis plus de 10 ans.

Nous travaillons actuellement à améliorer notre communication concernant le délai de validité, délai que vous trouverez sur la quittance de votre achat, de plus sur chacun de vos billets apparait le solde des entrées disponibles, en effet notre but est que vous profitiez d’un maximum de cinéma au meilleur prix.

Nous ne sommes pas en mesure de vous rembourser, mais c’est avec plaisir que nous vous ferons parvenir à l’adresse que vous voudrez bien nous communiquer, 6 invitations le supplément 3D étant inclus dans ces entrées.

Nous restons à votre entière disposition.

Meilleures salutations.

<<name>>
Cinémas Manager
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Old 03.10.2012, 12:55
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Re: Cinemas PATHE -- PATHEtic New Ways of Making Money [Stealing]

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The forum and readers here fast accumulated 500+ reads since posted. I attribute the fast replies from PATHE to you guys and would like to thank you.

Latest update is reply from Cinemas Manager, who is polite to follow protocol and reply in French to a English letter. The tone of the letter suggest this was perhaps proofed by Legal, so I am not looking into the technicalities or intended rebuttal.
They probably only have boiler-plate letters in French and German...
Kassensturz to the rescue...
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Old 03.10.2012, 13:07
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Re: Cinemas PATHE -- PATHEtic New Ways of Making Money [Stealing]

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They probably only have boiler-plate letters in French and German...
Kassensturz to the rescue...
The letter seems very reasonable & they are offering 6 free cinema tickets, I doubt Kassensturz would have any interest in the matter.

Edit,

The terms are clearly stated in the flyer, I guess you can't read French.
http://pathe.ch/cinema/lausanne/medi...LS+GE_2012.pdf
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Old 03.10.2012, 13:28
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Re: Cinemas PATHE -- PATHEtic New Ways of Making Money [Stealing]

Found this on the German Wikipedia:

"In der Schweiz verjähren Gutscheine abhängig von der Art der Forderung nach fünf[3] oder zehn[4] Jahren unabhängig davon, ob darauf eine Gültigkeitsdauer vermerkt ist.[5] Der Ablauf der Gültigkeitsdauer führt allerdings dazu, dass die abgemachte Leistung nicht mehr geschuldet ist. Das investierte Geld bekommt man zurück, falls diese Forderung nicht selbst schon verjährt ist."

In Switzerland monetary claims from Voucher get time barred either after ten or five years depending on the kind of obligation. Regardless if there is any time limit on the voucher itself or associated with some general terms and conditions. However, the obligation of the voucher giver to perform some action(s) is no longer given after the time limit on the voucher. (Links adjusted to the English version of the Swiss Code of Obligations)

I am not a lawyer, but if the above interpretation is indeed true, then:
a) Pathe does longer have to give you any tickets.
b) Pathe is in debt with you and you can claim all the money back you have not used so far.
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Old 03.10.2012, 14:00
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Re: Cinemas PATHE -- PATHEtic New Ways of Making Money [Stealing]

Good for you that your effort in getting something back paid off. But it is clear in their website that it is only valid for 6 months. I also have this subscription for almost 2 years now.

http://www.pathe.ch/cinema/geneve/pathe_friends.php
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Old 03.10.2012, 14:38
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Re: Cinemas PATHE -- PATHEtic New Ways of Making Money [Stealing]

well you first said that the card had no limitation in time and that they changed the terms of the contract after you bought them. In fact they always had an expiry and maybe because of the language barrier you didn't notice.
The manager sounds very reasonnable considering the situation. Obviously it was a honnest mistake from your part but you can't blame Pathe the way you're doing it here in view of the full picture. Be honnest too!
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Old 03.10.2012, 14:59
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Re: Cinemas PATHE -- PATHEtic New Ways of Making Money [Stealing]

I believe the open nature of the thread only shows that honesty is what's intended here. I have no issue with French, so language is not the problem.

At time of purchase and renewal/recharge the expiry was never communicated. I have included the picture of card front/back only to confirm there is NO indication or warning of the time-sensitive nature of the rights it carries.
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Old 03.10.2012, 15:03
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Re: Cinemas PATHE -- PATHEtic New Ways of Making Money [Stealing]

Did you see Kassenstutz last night with the complaints about Pathe?
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Old 03.10.2012, 17:08
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Re: Cinemas PATHE -- PATHEtic New Ways of Making Money [Stealing]

I had a little look back at some historical stuff from Pathé. It seems that the expiry has been covered in the general conditions for at least a while. I did not see when you purchased your card.

Here is from one promotional flyer in Jan. 2008 from Pathé in Deitlikon (in DE).

Mit Freunden ins Kino? Grossfamilie? Fussballmannschaft? –
Pathé Friends!



Was ist Pathé Friends?
Das Pathé Friends Abonnement bietet Familien, Gruppen oder dir und deinen Freunden die Möglichkeit, jede Vorstellung (ohne Ciné Deluxe) für nur 16.– pro Person zu besuchen.


Das Pathé Friends Abonnement ist entweder mit 5 Eintritten (gültig: 6 Monate) für 80.–, oder 10 Eintritten (gültig: 12 Monate) für 160.– erhältlich.


Selbstverständlich kann Pathé Friends auch von Einzelpersonen bezogen werden. Die einzelnen Eintritte sind übertragbar.
Erlebe die grössten Filme unserer Zeit zusammen mit deiner Familie oder deinen Freunden, und das erst noch zum Spezialpreis!

Pathé Friends – Kino gemeinsam erleben!

Link: http://www.pathe.ch/cinema/dietlikon..._20080104.html

Here is a page from the a June 2010 document from Lausanne (second page left side) that shows a 6 month and 12 month expiry as well depending on the amount of the card purchased.

Link: http://www.pathe.ch/cinema/lausanne/...r_3_cartes.pdf
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Old 11.10.2012, 10:16
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Re: Cinemas PATHE -- PATHEtic New Ways of Making Money [Stealing]

Dear fellow members,

Latest update - after replying to the last email from PATHE, accepting their offer for 6 entry passes, this morning I got an envelope in the mail with aforementioned ticket replacements.

That closes this chapter of our relationship with PATHE and unless something changes significantly on their side, I think for the time being it will be the final one.

I want to thank you all for the support, all of you. Those that posted links pointing out the fine print, too. I should read the fine print always and ask, should enough info is not immediately made available.

Thank you guys
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