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  #21  
Old 07.10.2012, 13:27
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Re: SBB Complaint: Fined for handwriting date on day pass

Just to add that in Lausanne also, the TL ticket machines can not validate tickets.
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  #22  
Old 07.10.2012, 13:41
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Re: SBB Complaint: Fined for handwriting date on day pass

You have tried with the train inspector, you have tried with Zurich station.

I would contact 20 Minuten, it makes a nice story, Geneva resident called a liar by Swiss German ticket inspector.

Write to Bern and ask for an apology, and a clean record.
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Old 07.10.2012, 13:43
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Re: SBB Complaint: Fined for handwriting date on day pass

There was recently an article in the Blick am Abend about over-aggressive inspectors on the night trains, trams etc in Zürich. The ZVV representative quoted said customers should take down the details of such individuals and report the matter in writing if they feel wrongly treated.

Cheers,
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  #24  
Old 07.10.2012, 15:40
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Re: SBB Complaint: Fined for handwriting date on day pass

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I feel sorry for you and what you had to deal with. My opinion? It is only 20 CHF, definitely not worth the stress. Don't bother.
Of course it is worth to fight for it! it's not the sum, it's the fact they're charging for something unfairly and bad treating customers as if they are liars and taking little care to verify it

Good luck with whatever you decide to do!
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  #25  
Old 07.10.2012, 15:45
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Re: SBB Complaint: Fined for handwriting date on day pass

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At the machine, I saw a return ticket and since I needed to return from Lausanne on Sunday I thought it was the easiest, no need for a new ticket on Sunday. Well wrong of course since return tickets are only valid the same day (not stated on the machine when you take the ticket..)
So I got caught on Sunday for not having a valid ticket, got fined just as if I didn't bought anything even if the agent could see I had a return the was bought on Friday at 22.00 and validated by his colleague at 22.30 anf not return was used...
Conclusion: if they find the smallest reason to charge you they will, even if you're obviously being honest.
Well, yours is actually a very different story. I am sorry for you but in that case they do have the right to fine you... the reason is, there's not always a ticket collector on board, so you could have very well used that ticket to go to Lausanne, back to Geneva, then bought a single ticket to Lausanne again and tried to use the old one which didn't get checked before again.

That is why return tickets you buy which are over a certain amount of kilometres (I would say 100 but I can't really recall the exact figure) are allowed to be used several days after, as they consider it is very hard not get it validated by a ticket collector since you stay in the train for a long time.
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  #26  
Old 07.10.2012, 16:16
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Re: SBB Complaint: Fined for handwriting date on day pass

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I actaully got lucky once. I was new in Switzerland and bought a daily pass. By mistake I sat in the 1st class on SBB train. When the ticket checker came, he checked my ticket and told me that I am in the wrong class. He told me that he won't fine me but I need to be more cautious next time.

Later on I was informed by co-workers that I got lucky. He could have fined me 100 CHF. Most of the time SBB ticket checkers are ruthless.
You must have very high standards of public transport where you come from to mistake 1st clas with 2nd class here.

Where is this wonderful country ?

Last edited by Today only; 07.10.2012 at 16:20. Reason: typo after lunch....
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  #27  
Old 07.10.2012, 22:51
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Re: SBB Complaint: Fined for handwriting date on day pass

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Thanks for sharing your experience. I can only understand a bit of french and noticed that on the back of the ticket it mentions we can validate by hand if the machine is not working. I've purchased the multi-pass and have run into several situations where the machine won't punch the ticket. I'm worried now that we'll get fined anyways.

I guess it's better to just buy the monthly passes so there's no worries.

In your case, lucky it's only 20 chf. Wouldn't worry too much about it.

Still can understand your frustrations.

Cheers
It was 10 chf for each ticket. 2 tickets, fined 20 chf in total.

In future, I would continue to complete the ticket dating by hand, and DEMAND to see someone in authority. You could show them proof of your address, and then appeal the fine when it is delivered to you.
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  #28  
Old 08.10.2012, 07:26
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Re: SBB Complaint: Fined for handwriting date on day pass

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It was 10 chf for each ticket. 2 tickets, fined 20 chf in total.

In future, I would continue to complete the ticket dating by hand, and DEMAND to see someone in authority. You could show them proof of your address, and then appeal the fine when it is delivered to you.
Note that she did not catch us in the process of writing the date by hand, which is a punishable offense as she insisted. (The logic here being that we would have had lots of opportunities to validate the ticket on the train tracks, where there are machines, before taking our seats.)

I had already written the dates much earlier in the morning, to take the bus to the station. The sequence is as follows:

- Tickets are for use on all buses, trams, and trains in Switzerland.
- This includes Geneva buses and trams.
- We needed to take a Geneva bus to get to the train station.
- Geneva bus ticket machines DO NOT validate SBB tickets.
- It is only allowed to validate the tickets by hand when there are no machines available to do so.
- Ergo... we followed all the instructions.

For her to go on and on about how there were so many machines on the Geneva train tracks was pointless, because we do not live at the train station and we had to get there somehow, i.e. taking a bus (see above).

It was a very painful and frustrating back-and-forth, talking to this person who seemed to have all the flexibility and comprehension of a granite rock, and frankly I was close to tears at the end of it and threw the money at her (using all the change I could find in my purse) so she would get out of my face.

But now I am calm and yes, I will write to their CEO and see if I can make a few calls.
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  #29  
Old 08.10.2012, 08:17
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Re: SBB Complaint: Fined for handwriting date on day pass

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For her to go on and on about how there were so many machines on the Geneva train tracks was pointless, because we do not live at the train station and we had to get there somehow, i.e. taking a bus (see above).
You have to plan time for validating your ticket or buy a ticket that doesn't need validation I'm afraid. I faced a similar problem in the past, i.e., before I had an annual pass:

In the morning in the crowded bus, the driver often refused to sell tickets and you had to buy your ticket at the train station. With the bus being usually a few minutes late during the rush-hour, I missed my train on many days.
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Old 08.10.2012, 08:32
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Re: SBB Complaint: Fined for handwriting date on day pass

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You have to plan time for validating your ticket or buy a ticket that doesn't need validation I'm afraid. I faced a similar problem in the past, i.e., before I had an annual pass:

In the morning in the crowded bus, the driver often refused to sell tickets and you had to buy your ticket at the train station. With the bus being usually a few minutes late during the rush-hour, I missed my train on many days.
If I did not have a ticket, certainly I would have made time to purchase one at the train station. However, I had a ticket that was valid to use on the buses, and it is written on the ticket that you can validate by hand if there are no machines available. If it is absolutely forbidden to use anything OTHER than a machine to validate it, then they should say so.

Here is what it says on the back of open-ended day passes like ours (my rough translation):

"If there are no machines available for validation, the date of validity should be written with a ballpoint pen on the first available space starting from the bottom (for example 01 January 2012).

It is not permitted to validate it on the machine once you have written the date by hand.

When there are machines available for validation, it is not permitted to write the date of validity by hand.

When there is no validation by machine or when the date of validity is not mentioned, a supplemental fee must be paid."

I think what happened is that the SBB lady believed she had caught us in the act of scribbling on the tickets while on the train - when we had done no such thing - and so printed the fine accordingly and refused to let us explain.
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  #31  
Old 08.10.2012, 08:34
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Re: SBB Complaint: Fined for handwriting date on day pass

I'm pretty sure that no Swiss town has bus-ticket machines that can be used to validate day cards. The Zürich ones certainly can't either. It's actually one of the problems with any CFF day-card and not just the Migros ones. It's far from clear how and where you are supposed to validate the ticket. Until a couple of years ago, you were indeed allowed to validate them by handwriting the date, but I believe you are no longer allowed to do so.
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  #32  
Old 08.10.2012, 08:37
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Re: SBB Complaint: Fined for handwriting date on day pass

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Until a couple of years ago, you were indeed allowed to validate them by handwriting the date, but I believe you are no longer allowed to do so.
Then they should say so.

As I quoted above, the back of the ticket still says that you can validate by handwriting if there are no machines available.
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Old 08.10.2012, 09:19
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Re: SBB Complaint: Fined for handwriting date on day pass

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Then they should say so.

As I quoted above, the back of the ticket still says that you can validate by handwriting if there are no machines available.
If it does indeed say so, then the conductor was wrong. Make sure you keep the ticket and when you send your letter to the CFF, send a photocopy of that text.
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  #34  
Old 08.10.2012, 10:53
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Re: SBB Complaint: Fined for handwriting date on day pass

Only the train or station personnel are permitted to validate the ticket by handwriting (although it is not written on the ticket...):
http://data.ch-direct.org/Tarife/SBB/T652_d.pdf

Next time ask the bus driver to validate the ticket, if he doesn't or can't, validate it at the next train station.
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  #35  
Old 08.10.2012, 11:06
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Re: SBB Complaint: Fined for handwriting date on day pass

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Only the train or station personnel are permitted to validate the ticket by handwriting (although it is not written on the ticket...):
http://data.ch-direct.org/Tarife/SBB/T652_d.pdf

Next time ask the bus driver to validate the ticket, if he doesn't or can't, validate it at the next train station.
Interesting to know this. But I wonder what is the difference between the handwriting of a station personnel and yours? Or station personnes must have a handy validating device or so, otherwise how controllers can distinguish whose handwriting it is?
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  #36  
Old 08.10.2012, 11:13
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Re: SBB Complaint: Fined for handwriting date on day pass

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Interesting to know this. But I wonder what is the difference between the handwriting of a station personnel and yours? Or station personnes must have a handy validating device or so, otherwise how controllers can distinguish whose handwriting it is?
They have a special punch to validate it.

Tom
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  #37  
Old 08.10.2012, 11:15
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Re: SBB Complaint: Fined for handwriting date on day pass

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I'm pretty sure that no Swiss town has bus-ticket machines that can be used to validate day cards. The Zürich ones certainly can't either. It's actually one of the problems with any CFF day-card and not just the Migros ones. It's far from clear how and where you are supposed to validate the ticket. Until a couple of years ago, you were indeed allowed to validate them by handwriting the date, but I believe you are no longer allowed to do so.
In my town (canton ZH) the local buses have orange validating machines on the bus! In Zurich city, you need to stamp them at the bus- or tramstop in the ticket machine (if there is one), they have a special slot to validate pre-bought tickets. Maybe it is the same in Geneva?
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  #38  
Old 08.10.2012, 12:01
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Re: SBB Complaint: Fined for handwriting date on day pass

Maybe she couldn't read your handwriting?
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  #39  
Old 08.10.2012, 12:12
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Re: SBB Complaint: Fined for handwriting date on day pass

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In my town (canton ZH) the local buses have orange validating machines on the bus! In Zurich city, you need to stamp them at the bus- or tramstop in the ticket machine (if there is one), they have a special slot to validate pre-bought tickets. Maybe it is the same in Geneva?
Buses that service the more rural routes do have ticket machines on board, but they don't have a slot for validating pre-bought passes. Twenty-odd years ago all ticket machines in Geneva canton had such a slot but the cardboard multi-pass card tickets were replaced by credit card-type pre-payment cards at that point and the machines were changed to reflect this. So, no, Geneva ticket machines don't have a validation facility, either at a bus stop or on a vehicle. Until two years ago it was possible to buy a pack of tickets to use on routes starting in France but serviced by the TPG, and which needed to be date-stamped or written on by the driver (which method seemed to depend on the driver) but those are no longer avaliable and you now have to buy your ticket from the machine on the vehicle itself.
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Old 08.10.2012, 13:40
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Re: SBB Complaint: Fined for handwriting date on day pass

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I agree with those that say write a letter. Don't waste your money calling them. ......to fight with them.
add: CC to Transport ombudsman !!
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