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  #141  
Old 06.11.2012, 00:03
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Re: Swiss are COLD!

My OH was asked to show evidence of taking classes and exams - but he went to talk to them, and said he'd learnt with me, family and friends. He explained all this in almost perfect French, with his lovely accent, and said 'well, you can judge by yourself' - and they agreed, excellent French, irrespective of no school course or exam - proof in the pudding.
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  #142  
Old 06.11.2012, 09:18
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Re: Swiss are COLD!

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Yes, the procedure IS complicated, demanding and expensive
Unless you're married to a Swiss, in which case it's just paperwork.

Tom
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  #143  
Old 06.11.2012, 19:56
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Re: Swiss are COLD!

I think this is a little harsh.

In the past 15 years a lot has changed in the smaller towns. I think some of the more "traditional" folk have difficulties adapting, but most Swiss people I've met have been really friendly, open people. Mind you, I ran a bar and people like bartenders. JK.

Most people I met want to know everything about Canada... What do I think about Switzerland? Can you teach me some English???

I think it really depends on how you are with people. Some Canadian's are really rude and stupid... Some Americans are really ignorant. You just can't put a label on a whole society/culture.
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  #144  
Old 06.11.2012, 20:00
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Re: Swiss are COLD!

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Seems you are the failure! 20 years and you state what is clearly a lie and then this is your first post seems you havent even attempted to integrate especially to make such a baseless claim.

The vast majority of swiss I work and live with are lovely people and do not expect anything in return for being nice.
Do you know the poster well enough to make those assertions (you could)? I think she's speaking from her experience just as you are from yours.
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  #145  
Old 06.11.2012, 20:02
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Re: Swiss are COLD!

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So New Yorkers would be the ones not to trust? LOL
Ehhh... I lav New York!
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  #146  
Old 07.11.2012, 03:28
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Re: Swiss are COLD!

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I think this is a little harsh.

In the past 15 years a lot has changed in the smaller towns. I think some of the more "traditional" folk have difficulties adapting, but most Swiss people I've met have been really friendly, open people. Mind you, I ran a bar and people like bartenders. JK.

Most people I met want to know everything about Canada... What do I think about Switzerland? Can you teach me some English???

I think it really depends on how you are with people. Some Canadian's are really rude and stupid... Some Americans are really ignorant. You just can't put a label on a whole society/culture.
your theory however does not hold water. By average, people in Siwtzerland were more open and more modern and friendlier in 1975 than in 2000. Things have improved again in the past decade.

Geographically, things over the past 40 years have shifted somewhat. Geneva which in the 1970ies and 80ies was clearly ahead in regard to openness and modernity has rather stagnated while the area between Luzern and Schaffhausen and between Bern and Frauenfeld has moved ahead to some extent

For English speakers the matter of course has improved quite heavily as between 1967 and now, English in most Cantons of German speaking Switzerland got ahead to equal position with French and in some places even into a position ahead of French. In the Romandie, far more people than 40 years ago in principle are able to speak English, but French for the Romandie is an "identification-aspect", in a way not evident in German speaking or Italian speaking Switzerland.
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  #147  
Old 07.11.2012, 03:38
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Re: Swiss are COLD!

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Do you know the poster well enough to make those assertions (you could)? I think she's speaking from her experience just as you are from yours.
"Wa..." most likely does not know the poster better than I do, which means rather not at all, BUT the poster revealed as much as to have been in Switzerland for two decades and not have come to terms with this country. While Mr Christoph Blocher may love you for emphasising the "specialness" of Switzerland, the simple truth is that Switzerland is more or less just as other countries in Continental Europe.
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  #148  
Old 07.11.2012, 09:52
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Re: Swiss are COLD!

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your theory however does not hold water. By average, people in Siwtzerland were more open and more modern and friendlier in 1975 than in 2000. Things have improved again in the past decade.
I think Wolli is spot on here. Most people mistake urban, international, young people in the cities with open, friendly people. But that's not the case at all, most Swiss who only have homeophatic doses of foreigners are much friendlier and more curious than the city-dwellers.

Zürich, with up to 40% foreigners in some parts, is much more unfriendly, closed-minded towards strangers and isolationist than most rural towns. It's a world-wide tendency, Switzerland is merely a bit late to pick it up, wherever immigrants are primarily viewed from an economic benefit perspective, and less from a cultural enrichment perspective the local populace becomes somewhat cold not only towards them but also the general populace.

Add to that the fact that Zürich was always viewed as an especially Bünzli/socially conservative place that is much less fun-loving than its Southern and Western neighbours. Ask any Swiss which place is friendlier, Zürich or Lucerne, you'll be surprised.
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  #149  
Old 07.11.2012, 10:18
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Re: Swiss are COLD!

Other thing to keep in mind is that half the pricks you bump into might not even be Swiss.
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  #150  
Old 07.11.2012, 15:49
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Re: Swiss are COLD!

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I think Wolli is spot on here. Most people mistake urban, international, young people in the cities with open, friendly people. But that's not the case at all, most Swiss who only have homeophatic doses of foreigners are much friendlier and more curious than the city-dwellers.

Zürich, with up to 40% foreigners in some parts, is much more unfriendly, closed-minded towards strangers and isolationist than most rural towns. It's a world-wide tendency, Switzerland is merely a bit late to pick it up, wherever immigrants are primarily viewed from an economic benefit perspective, and less from a cultural enrichment perspective the local populace becomes somewhat cold not only towards them but also the general populace.

Add to that the fact that Zürich was always viewed as an especially Bünzli/socially conservative place that is much less fun-loving than its Southern and Western neighbours. Ask any Swiss which place is friendlier, Zürich or Lucerne, you'll be surprised.
As far as I know the towns, Zug is rather unfriendly while places like Rapperswil and Schaffhausen are as friendly as Luzern, and Stein-am-Rhein even more so. Frauenfeld is almost like Zug, with Winterthur somewhere in between.

Inside Zürich, it is interesting to see the difference between the various quarters. That workers vote SVP while the rich and the intellectuals vote Social-Democrat. However, Zürich tradiionally was fairly progressive, while Luzern only opened up in the past 30 years.

Fun-loving ? Zürich in the 1960ies and 70ies was "Zwinglianisch" in the sense of Ayatollah Khomeiny and only got more fun in the 1990ies and 2000s.
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  #151  
Old 07.11.2012, 16:01
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Re: Swiss are COLD!

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Inside Zürich, it is interesting to see the difference between the various quarters. That workers vote SVP while the rich and the intellectuals vote Social-Democrat. However, Zürich tradiionally was fairly progressive, while Luzern only opened up in the past 30 years.

Fun-loving ? Zürich in the 1960ies and 70ies was "Zwinglianisch" in the sense of Ayatollah Khomeiny and only got more fun in the 1990ies and 2000s.
I agree, but you equate social progressiveness with friendliness, openness and I would really have to disagree there. Luzern may have been a more conservative place until recently, with an established tourist industry but little more, but has always been a rather rowdy catholic place where people would sin and repent, with a healthy disregard for authorities. You are far more likely to be invited for a drink by locals anywhere in Central Switzerland than in Zürich, and that is not just because they like to drink so much more than boring Zürchers, but mostly because they're generally mure curious and friendly. Read Hemmingway on the topic, he made some great observations in this regard.
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  #152  
Old 07.11.2012, 16:44
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Re: Swiss are COLD!

We are not cold, we just absorb your heat.
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  #153  
Old 07.11.2012, 22:17
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Re: Swiss are COLD!

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I agree, but you equate social progressiveness with friendliness, openness and I would really have to disagree there. Luzern may have been a more conservative place until recently, with an established tourist industry but little more, but has always been a rather rowdy catholic place where people would sin and repent, with a healthy disregard for authorities. You are far more likely to be invited for a drink by locals anywhere in Central Switzerland than in Zürich, and that is not just because they like to drink so much more than boring Zürchers, but mostly because they're generally mure curious and friendly. Read Hemmingway on the topic, he made some great observations in this regard.
I NEVER got invited for a drink in the Innerschwiiz, but did in Zürich, Schaffhausen and Basel. Zürchers did "sin and repent with a heavey disregard for authorities" all the time.

And do not forget that if you regard anybody as boring, it may be yourself who really is boring. Things to some extent are up to YOU.

More curious ? Difficult to say. I always felt that the Innerschwiizer including the Luzerners are exceedingly reserved and eager to stay among themselves and not interested in outsiders.

I still remember when I on a return from Langenthal stopped at the rail-station restaurant of Gettnau/LU and got into a chat with some "locals" who then turned out to be Kosovaris alltogether
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  #154  
Old 08.11.2012, 15:50
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Re: Swiss are COLD!

I agree. They are cold, rigid, predictable and racist. I've heard they behave differently and say different things when they don't know the person is not Swiss (racist comments) and are being fake when they know you are a foreigner. This is not my experience as I don't speak German or Swiss German but I still talk to people who have been here for years and unfortunately that's what they say. I hope my husband will finally see further than the numbers on his Swiss account but it will take time before we can move somewhere else so I decided to stay and well, suffer as if every day of my life I will be reminded this is not my home and never will be, will be a TORTURE.

I should offer my services to local community, advertise in German more. The problem is that I like when my clients are more like me... and Swiss clients if I can be honest I don't enjoy as they can never really come out of their shell and I love when people can come out of their shells even if it is little bit it is therapeutic and bounding. I don't feel so alone when I travel from one country to another so my work is also positively affecting my social life abroad but I never get this connection, good vibes from the Swiss so generally it is hard when it comes to "business" as I want to stay authentic, no fake smile or interest, no snobbish atmosphere but maybe I will have to change my attitude to "take, take, take" if I want to survive here. There is no Life without money but again money is not everything, we all know this. So I am another one contemplating "Should I stay or should I go?" but I don't want to bore you.

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  #155  
Old 08.11.2012, 16:15
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Re: Swiss are COLD!

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I agree. They are cold, rigid, predictable and racist. I've heard they behave differently and say different things when they don't know the person is not Swiss (racist comments) and are being fake when they know you are a foreigner. This is not my experience as I don't speak German or Swiss German but I still talk to people who have been here for years and unfortunately that's what they say. I hope my husband will finally see further than the numbers on his Swiss account but it will take time before we can move somewhere else so I decided to stay and well, suffer as if every day of my life I will be reminded this is not my home and never will be, will be a TORTURE.

I should offer my services to local community, advertise in German more. The problem is that I like when my clients are more like me... and Swiss clients if I can be honest I don't want because I don't enjoy them as they can never really come out of their shell and I love when people can come out of their shells even if it is little bit it is therapeutic and bounding. I don't feel so alone when I travel from one country to another so my work is also positively affecting my social life abroad but I never get this connection, good vibes from the Swiss so generally it is hard when it comes to "business" as I want to stay authentic, no fake smile or interest, no snobish atmospher but maybe I will have to change my attitude to "take, take, take" if I want to survive here. There is no Life without money but again money is not everything, we all know this. So I am another one contemplating "Should I stay or should I go?" but I don't want to bore you.
Now that's new for me. You are accusing Swiss for being racist and in the same moment are saying that you don't want to have THE Swiss as clients. And to top everything you say Swis are fake but admit that you don't speak German and never experienced such behaviour yourself.
Do you think before you write such nonsense or was this an inspiration conceived while smoking grass?
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  #156  
Old 08.11.2012, 17:15
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Re: Swiss are COLD!

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Now that's new for me. You are accusing Swiss for being racist and in the same moment are saying that you don't want to have THE Swiss as clients. And to top everything you say Swis are fake but admit that you don't speak German and never experienced such behavior yourself.
Do you think before you write such nonsense or was this an inspiration conceived while smoking grass?
Never mind. I don't say this is my personal experience. I haven't lived here long enough to experience all these things myself but I hear mostly negative opinions from those who have been here for many years so I don't expect it will be getting any easier. My Swiss clients are nice and open but I think they are exception. Those who are rigid do not stay and that's fine because we are not a good match... I feel guilty for not doing enough to get more Swiss clients and not assimilating but my heart is not there... I should do more, but guess what? I can't change the way I feel about it so that's why I vented here, hoping someone will actually understand... The fact that I was lucky and my neighbors are friendly does not mean I can easily accept if others are threatened or treated disrespectful because they are foreigners. I hear these stories so often.
Grass? Good idea. Getting emotionally numb will help me to cope.
I didn't experience behavior described above but do you know if I didn't experience ANY behavior of this sort? Luckily these were minor things...

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  #157  
Old 08.11.2012, 18:04
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Re: Swiss are COLD!

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Never mind. I don't say this is my personal experience. I haven't lived here long enough to experience all these things myself but I hear mostly negative opinions from those who have been here for many years so I don't expect it will be getting any easier. My Swiss clients are nice and open but I think they are exception.
The f... is wrong with you ?

You disregard your own experience with the Swiss customers you have, refer solely to the opinion of some people you hang out with and whose own negativity you adopt, and then talk about how racist the Swiss are... I am lost for words.

It's bizarre how people who describe themselves as open and tolerant are often the most narrow-minded, bigotted people when it comes to judging people who they think aren't.
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  #158  
Old 08.11.2012, 18:07
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Re: Swiss are COLD!

She is pretty though.
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Old 08.11.2012, 18:26
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Re: Swiss are COLD!

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The f... is wrong with you ?

You disregard your own experience with the Swiss customers you have, refer solely to the opinion of some people you hang out with and whose own negativity you adopt, and then talk about how racist the Swiss are... I am lost for words.

It's bizarre how people who describe themselves as open and tolerant are often the most narrow-minded, bigotted people when it comes to judging people who they think aren't.
That's really sweet. Thank you. It is more complicated than you think...
swiss-cold-2011-beleza-celebration-champagne-cheers-favim.com-134387.jpg
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Old 08.11.2012, 18:33
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Re: Swiss are COLD!

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That's really sweet. Thank you. It is more complicated than you think...
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Frankly, I think I can understand the POV you are trying to get across, but your words and your intent aren't meeting up.
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