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  #81  
Old 07.12.2012, 00:36
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

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It's like saying my neighbour cooks curry everyday, and i smell it in my house. Some people really dislike that. I actually love the smell of curry, but could I demand someone stop cooking curry because I can smell it?

It's ludicrous.
Believe it or not, it happened to us! It was not curry but I was making a bacon chicken dish in my oven. Our upstairs neighbor came down yelling about our smelling cooking stinking up their apartment!

I asked her who gave her the auth to tell me what I could cook in my house and what not!

She went to the managing company but nothing came of it.
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  #82  
Old 07.12.2012, 11:00
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

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I disagree. It's not a private lifestyle choice when it affects the health of others. And it does. The fact that are 'allowed' to smoke in your building under the terms of the lease is one thing but when it affects people detrimentally - especially in their own home - and you're the one generating the problem, I do think the "tough, not my problem" attitude rather than a bit of consideration is unsociable.

But, you're talking about Switzerland and the rules of Switzerland/that particular building are what they are. Got to - instead of - "Gotta" - deal with it how it is.

Me, I'd be pissed off, not use the smokey room and move out as soon as I could (having exhausted all other possibilities). "Tough on me" it is. Move on.
Just a grammatic fix , we could play this all day.

But I take that as you looking to divert from topic. All good.
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  #83  
Old 07.12.2012, 11:23
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

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Believe it or not, it happened to us! It was not curry but I was making a bacon chicken dish in my oven. Our upstairs neighbor came down yelling about our smelling cooking stinking up their apartment!

I asked her who gave her the auth to tell me what I could cook in my house and what not!

She went to the managing company but nothing came of it.
haha, yeah it does not surprise me, with all these sensitive souls living in a world of entitlement that there are those out there that think they could demand such things. Of course, when push comes to shove and they try and seek some kind of backing for their fantasy land from the powers that be, they do not have a leg to stand on.
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  #84  
Old 08.12.2012, 03:54
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

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As a short term solution, as it appears to be a building structural problem, get the landlord to provide air purifier(s).
Air purifiers don't work. I have asthma and a former neighbour in Canada smoked enough for me to have trouble breathing. The landlord got me a purifier and it did squat. In the end, the tenant downstairs ended up moving out when the building went smoke-free three months later.

Considering that tobacco came from North America, you'd think swiss xenophobia would be quicker to accept the evils of tobacco.
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Old 08.12.2012, 04:24
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

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Air purifiers don't work. I have asthma and a former neighbour in Canada smoked enough for me to have trouble breathing. The landlord got me a purifier and it did squat. In the end, the tenant downstairs ended up moving out when the building went smoke-free three months later.

Considering that tobacco came from North America, you'd think swiss xenophobia would be quicker to accept the evils of tobacco.
Or maybe that the Swiss would be quicker to embrace asthma as a weakness that should be left to its own devices given the usual 'natural' approaches to medicine since asthmatics generally have difficulty breathing for various reasons, not just smoking. Smoking didn't come from the US, but you'd know that if you really did your homework......

You've got about 20 years before you'll see a smoke-free Switzerland.....
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Old 08.12.2012, 06:47
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

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Air purifiers don't work. I have asthma and a former neighbour in Canada smoked enough for me to have trouble breathing. The landlord got me a purifier and it did squat. In the end, the tenant downstairs ended up moving out when the building went smoke-free three months later.

Considering that tobacco came from North America, you'd think swiss xenophobia would be quicker to accept the evils of tobacco.
I strongly protest and object. To be aganst smoking does NOT mean to be xenophobe. And the xenophobes do NOT have a majority while those in favour of limiting smoking HAVE majorities.

May I remind you of the point that Swiss Cantons like Ticino, Zürich and Basel (etc) were the only political entities in the world to limit smoking on the basis of popular votes.

************************************************** **********

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You've got about 20 years before you'll see a smoke-free Switzerland.....
What does "smoke-free" mean ? If interpreted literally it means a total and absolute smoking prohibition, and this is NOT what I would like to see. An extension of the smoking ban in Zürich and some other Cantons however will come within a few years, while there union-wide will be a continuation of the Federal Smoking Ban
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Old 09.12.2012, 20:04
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

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I strongly protest and object. To be aganst smoking does NOT mean to be xenophobe. And the xenophobes do NOT have a majority while those in favour of limiting smoking HAVE majorities.

May I remind you of the point that Swiss Cantons like Ticino, Zürich and Basel (etc) were the only political entities in the world to limit smoking on the basis of popular votes.
I think you misunderstood what I was talking about. Swiss xenophobia referred to the general xenophobia in Switzerland regarding outside influence and outside products and cultures.. I don't see how the popularity of a smoking ban is a plus when it occurred in 2010? The rest of the world put these through years ago, because medical issues should not be decided on the whims of the majority... quite frankly, the average smoker is addicted and his or her opinion on the where/when to smoke is biased based on that addiction.

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Or maybe that the Swiss would be quicker to embrace asthma as a weakness that should be left to its own devices given the usual 'natural' approaches to medicine since asthmatics generally have difficulty breathing for various reasons, not just smoking.
I know what causes my asthma to flare up. Second-hand smoke, bug repellent and other scented products that smell like bug repellent.

As for the concept that I have asthma since I'm weak... generally this is why human rights are not decided based on the majority because we generally don't kill out the weak anymore.

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Smoking didn't come from the US, but you'd know that if you really did your homework......

You've got about 20 years before you'll see a smoke-free Switzerland.....
if Tobacco didn't come from the Americas, where did it come from? My history suggests it arrived in the Old world in the 1500s-1700s... If I'm wrong, instead of a "you're wrong" comment, why not just tell us where it actually came from? If you're a tobacco historian, maybe you can enlighten us?

This guy seems to think it came from North America though: http://books.google.ch/books/about/T...AJ&redir_esc=y and along with my high school geography class where I originally learned this stuff... I'm not sure what homework you're referring to. Do you have special insight into the history of Tobacco that the rest of the world is not privy to?
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Old 09.12.2012, 20:53
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

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the general xenophobia in Switzerland
There is no such thing.

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if Tobacco didn't come from the Americas, where did it come from?
Poptart said "smoking", not "tobacco".

Tom
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  #89  
Old 09.12.2012, 22:15
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

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we rent out our house in Canada and the lease forbids smoking in the house.
I rent a house in outer wangaloos and I forbid pregnent women, dog owners, cannibals, and anyone over the age of 65 or younger than 32.5

But hey, that's another country, where I can do what I want.

Doesn't really have any relevance to this country, does it?
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  #90  
Old 10.12.2012, 01:09
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

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I think you misunderstood what I was talking about. Swiss xenophobia referred to the general xenophobia in Switzerland regarding outside influence and outside products and cultures.. I don't see how the popularity of a smoking ban is a plus when it occurred in 2010? The rest of the world put these through years ago, because medical issues should not be decided on the whims of the majority... quite frankly, the average smoker is addicted and his or her opinion on the where/when to smoke is biased based on that addiction.



I know what causes my asthma to flare up. Second-hand smoke, bug repellent and other scented products that smell like bug repellent.

As for the concept that I have asthma since I'm weak... generally this is why human rights are not decided based on the majority because we generally don't kill out the weak anymore.



if Tobacco didn't come from the Americas, where did it come from? My history suggests it arrived in the Old world in the 1500s-1700s... If I'm wrong, instead of a "you're wrong" comment, why not just tell us where it actually came from? If you're a tobacco historian, maybe you can enlighten us?

This guy seems to think it came from North America though: http://books.google.ch/books/about/T...AJ&redir_esc=y and along with my high school geography class where I originally learned this stuff... I'm not sure what homework you're referring to. Do you have special insight into the history of Tobacco that the rest of the world is not privy to?
> there before 2010 was no popular vote in favour of a smoking ban anywhere in the world. So that those Swiss Cantons were the first EVER

> general xenophobia ? there is NO "general xenophobia" in Switzerland. Xenophobia in Switzerland is just as in all of Europe, neither better nor worse

> outside cultures and products were and are always accepted in Switzerland.

> a smoking ban is NOT a medical precaution really. And so IS something to be decided by the people, to be decided in a truly democratic way. Most smoking bans in the world were decided upon by the people, or by parliaments or by governments, but almost NEVER by the doctors.

> asthma ? Sorry for your problem, but this is a serious illness, and NOT caused by the smokers, even if their habit for you is horror/terror. Please be aware of the fact that the trouble may hit you in a totally smoke-free place. A good friend of me died aged 55 in a Seattle hotel-room deep at night of Asthma, without any smokers having been involved.

>> that you have Asthma does NOT mean that you are weak, it simply means that you have a particular problem.

> you say that the average smoker is addicted . This may well be as you say, but those smoking bans do NOT stop any single smoker from smoking, they prevent smokers from molesting non-smokers in "public places" only.

> orgin of tobacco ? I did NOT say anything about the origin of tobacco. Never. So, please do not construct conspiracy theories. And yes, tobacco came over from what now is Latin America between 1500 and 1700. Tobacco production was intensified by European settlers to the Americas. But I do not see a reason why anyone in Europe is justified to put the blame for the tobacco problem onto the Americas.

> it looks as if you get excited about the matter in an undue way. This is bad, as emotions and sentiments are no recipe to tackle such matters
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Old 10.12.2012, 01:36
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

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> general xenophobia ? there is NO "general xenophobia" in Switzerland. Xenophobia in Switzerland is just as in all of Europe, neither better nor worse

> outside cultures and products were and are always accepted in Switzerland.

> a smoking ban is NOT a medical precaution really. And so IS something to be decided by the people, to be decided in a truly democratic way. Most smoking bans in the world were decided upon by the people, or by parliaments or by governments, but almost NEVER by the doctors.

> asthma ? Sorry for your problem, but this is a serious illness, and NOT caused by the smokers, even if their habit for you is horror/terror. Please be aware of the fact that the trouble may hit you in a totally smoke-free place.
I had no idea you had such great in-depth knowledge of MY medical condition and how I'm apparently going to die... and how it's apparently in no way related to smoking. Considering only two things cause me any problems with asthma, I think you have some chutzpah to suggest this crap.

Since I have asthma, and my health is endangered by smokers, it's a smoker's free pass to kill me by smoking in non-smoking areas I try to stay in? Or am I to die off with evolution? What a wonderful world we live in

As for smoking bans, well, I know a lot of them were implemented by various jurisdiction's public health departments after medical officers recommended them. I know the Swiss are all happy regarding direct democracy, but California also has direct democracy, obviously it's not the end all and be all of all political systems considering the minaret ban and the deportation law that can't get past the federal council since it's not considered in line with international law.

If you really believe there is no xenophobia in Switzerland, I'd like to let you know that the federal council disagrees with you:
http://www.ekr.admin.ch/aktuell/index.html?lang=fr Whether it's better or worse than the rest of Europe is not really a concern unless Europe is your only measuring stick.

Something tells me the smokers are just being contrarians here to be difficult, not to make a point of any kind... Fact: Europe has a wee bit of a problem with xenophobia, or else any time there was a thread about asylum seekers, the hate wouldn't treble beyond anything I've ever experienced... I've seen perfectly reasonable people go a bit crazy over immigration while claiming a weird cultural difference.

You're all human aren't you? Get over it, you all want to be healthy, alive, not starve and avoid bombs. The only reason smokers are being unreasonable is because they minimize the effect their smoking has on others since they figure it barely affects them because they're addicted!
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Old 10.12.2012, 02:37
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

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I had no idea you had such great in-depth knowledge of MY medical condition and how I'm apparently going to die... and how it's apparently in no way related to smoking. Considering only two things cause me any problems with asthma, I think you have some chutzpah to suggest this crap.

Since I have asthma, and my health is endangered by smokers, it's a smoker's free pass to kill me by smoking in non-smoking areas I try to stay in? Or am I to die off with evolution? What a wonderful world we live in

As for smoking bans, well, I know a lot of them were implemented by various jurisdiction's public health departments after medical officers recommended them. I know the Swiss are all happy regarding direct democracy, but California also has direct democracy, obviously it's not the end all and be all of all political systems considering the minaret ban and the deportation law that can't get past the federal council since it's not considered in line with international law.

If you really believe there is no xenophobia in Switzerland, I'd like to let you know that the federal council disagrees with you:
http://www.ekr.admin.ch/aktuell/index.html?lang=fr Whether it's better or worse than the rest of Europe is not really a concern unless Europe is your only measuring stick.

Something tells me the smokers are just being contrarians here to be difficult, not to make a point of any kind... Fact: Europe has a wee bit of a problem with xenophobia, or else any time there was a thread about asylum seekers, the hate wouldn't treble beyond anything I've ever experienced... I've seen perfectly reasonable people go a bit crazy over immigration while claiming a weird cultural difference.

You're all human aren't you? Get over it, you all want to be healthy, alive, not starve and avoid bombs. The only reason smokers are being unreasonable is because they minimize the effect their smoking has on others since they figure it barely affects them because they're addicted!
> I have no knowledge of your medical problems EXCEPT what YOU stated
> I did not say that your problem is not or IS related to smoking
> smokers have NO right to smoke in a non-smoking area
> statistically, the danger for smokers to die due to their habit is far higher than the danger to you, even if that is of meagre comfort for you
> minaret ban ? I did and do not like that verdict, but it is a democratic decision, as was the ban against Absynthe.
> "deportation law" ? it is a law about foreigners who get sentenced due to heavy crime and then get deported. While the basic principle is alright, I was against and voted NO, but it was approved by a clear majority, so what
> no xenophobia in Switzerland ? are you crazy ? there is lots of xenophobia also in Switzerland, as is in ITaly, France, etc ! Nowadays, there is talk about the Gypsies. But in the 1960ies, xenophobia was against the "Tschingge", and it was not exactly splendid to be insulted as "blöde Schiss-Tschingg" or thelike.
> that it is neither worse nor better than elsewhere in Europe very simply means that it is the same as elsewhere. Whether Mr Blocher and you recognize this or not is not my thing
> smokers ARE a problem, no doubt
> Europe incl. Switzerland HAS a most severe problem with xenophobia and even racism. Otherwise, parties like the Front National in France would not have become as prominent as they are. Otherwise, right-wing parties like the SVP would not promote xenophobe positions and proposals al the time --- but to mix up this problem with smoking is a bit too much
> the problem with smokers is that most of them do not realize that their habit is ugly to others and that they do not realize what it is to others
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Old 10.12.2012, 03:07
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

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> I have no knowledge of your medical problems EXCEPT what YOU stated
> I did not say that your problem is not or IS related to smoking
> smokers have NO right to smoke in a non-smoking area
> statistically, the danger for smokers to die due to their habit is far higher than the danger to you, even if that is of meagre comfort for you
> minaret ban ? I did and do not like that verdict, but it is a democratic decision, as was the ban against Absynthe.
> "deportation law" ? it is a law about foreigners who get sentenced due to heavy crime and then get deported. While the basic principle is alright, I was against and voted NO, but it was approved by a clear majority, so what
> no xenophobia in Switzerland ? are you crazy ? there is lots of xenophobia also in Switzerland, as is in ITaly, France, etc ! Nowadays, there is talk about the Gypsies. But in the 1960ies, xenophobia was against the "Tschingge", and it was not exactly splendid to be insulted as "blöde Schiss-Tschingg" or thelike.
> that it is neither worse nor better than elsewhere in Europe very simply means that it is the same as elsewhere. Whether Mr Blocher and you recognize this or not is not my thing
> smokers ARE a problem, no doubt
> Europe incl. Switzerland HAS a most severe problem with xenophobia and even racism. Otherwise, parties like the Front National in France would not have become as prominent as they are. Otherwise, right-wing parties like the SVP would not promote xenophobe positions and proposals al the time --- but to mix up this problem with smoking is a bit too much
> the problem with smokers is that most of them do not realize that their habit is ugly to others and that they do not realize what it is to others
I'm really not sure what you're arguing for or against anymore...

My complaint was that smokers smoke in non-smoking places and places where non-smoker's can't avoid it and assume it doesn't affect non-smokers (example: people assuming that it's an issue of smell). My argument is that since smokers can smoke in places where it won't affect others if they knew of the effect, they would, but they don't because they either don't get it affects others (minimizing the risk) or don't care (narcissism). Then I made a comment about how it would be great if xenophobia in Switzerland also extended to tobacco since it's a foreign product.

I'm not really sure where the rest of the arguments came from.

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I thought "colds" were caused by viruses. Perhaps I'm wrong although some of the viruses may survive 600 deg C on the end of a ciggie??
That's somewhat daft.. since smokers are known to be more likely to get sick due to the effects of smoking.

"Mechanisms by which smoking increases the risk of infections include structural changes in the respiratory tract and a decrease in immune response. Cigarette smoking is a substantial risk factor for important bacterial and viral infections. For example, smokers incur a 2- to 4-fold increased risk of invasive pneumococcal disease. Influenza risk is severalfold higher and is much more severe in smokers than nonsmokers. Perhaps the greatest public health impact of smoking on infection is the increased risk of tuberculosis, a particular problem in underdeveloped countries where smoking rates are increasing rapidly."

Last edited by crazykittylady; 10.12.2012 at 03:25.
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Old 10.12.2012, 07:24
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

Well xenophobia in this country can't be that big with 23% foreigners living here including you. As for the rest, perhaps we should start a thead about tolerance and intolarence and about the histeric anti-tabacco-kindergarten-like behaviour of some people in this forum. Seriously, get yourself a life!
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Old 10.12.2012, 08:03
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

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I'm really not sure what you're arguing for or against anymore...

My complaint was that smokers smoke in non-smoking places and places where non-smoker's can't avoid it and assume it doesn't affect non-smokers (example: people assuming that it's an issue of smell). My argument is that since smokers can smoke in places where it won't affect others if they knew of the effect, they would, but they don't because they either don't get it affects others (minimizing the risk) or don't care (narcissism). Then I made a comment about how it would be great if xenophobia in Switzerland also extended to tobacco since it's a foreign product.

I'm not really sure where the rest of the arguments came from.



That's somewhat daft.. since smokers are known to be more likely to get sick due to the effects of smoking.

"Mechanisms by which smoking increases the risk of infections include structural changes in the respiratory tract and a decrease in immune response. Cigarette smoking is a substantial risk factor for important bacterial and viral infections. For example, smokers incur a 2- to 4-fold increased risk of invasive pneumococcal disease. Influenza risk is severalfold higher and is much more severe in smokers than nonsmokers. Perhaps the greatest public health impact of smoking on infection is the increased risk of tuberculosis, a particular problem in underdeveloped countries where smoking rates are increasing rapidly."
Most smokers do NOT smoke in no-smoking places. But yes, very often, smokers smoke in places you cannot avoid, and that is the plague. Your remark that you hope that xenophobia also extended to tobacco. This is double-nonsense. Tobacco is imported just as a big percentage of all products. Add to this that some tobacco companies have HQs and even factories in Switzerland. And if only xenophobes were not buying imported stuff, the majority still would do. Beside the point that the xenophobes would die without imported products.

That smokers ARE more likely to get ill, and to die of illnesses is beyond doubt.

What I object(ed) to was your demagogic, aggressive and generalising arguments, which in part are simply wrong. I however do not object to the anti-smoking position as such.
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Old 10.12.2012, 09:51
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

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Thats a cheap shot.....everyone on this forum knows that we are not in Canada!!
Its nice to get everbodys input, but somebody always has to write something cheeky.
If you know it's just being cheeky why did you groan at their post?
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Old 10.12.2012, 10:14
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

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What I object(ed) to was your demagogic, aggressive and generalising arguments, which in part are simply wrong. I however do not object to the anti-smoking position as such.
Facts can be a bitch, it's not a generalization when people grab statistics, it's called a statistic and when someone has a compelling argument, you can get upset that it's an "aggressive" argument simply because they're right-- but it's not very logical... I don't think I understand you position, but apparently, just because other people have a position and you don't like their "arguing style," you're being contrarian?

I'm so confused, but this isn't much of a debate since facts are being swept under the rug as an "aggressive arguing tactic."

Pro: Smoking is bad, but you shouldn't care so much
Con: I care because it affects me
Pro: But you don't count because you're weak
Con: I still care
Pro: Get a life!
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Old 10.12.2012, 10:59
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

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I had no idea you had such great in-depth knowledge of MY medical condition and how I'm apparently going to die... and how it's apparently in no way related to smoking. Considering only two things cause me any problems with asthma, I think you have some chutzpah to suggest this crap.

Since I have asthma, and my health is endangered by smokers, it's a smoker's free pass to kill me by smoking in non-smoking areas I try to stay in? Or am I to die off with evolution? What a wonderful world we live in

As for smoking bans, well, I know a lot of them were implemented by various jurisdiction's public health departments after medical officers recommended them. I know the Swiss are all happy regarding direct democracy, but California also has direct democracy, obviously it's not the end all and be all of all political systems considering the minaret ban and the deportation law that can't get past the federal council since it's not considered in line with international law.

If you really believe there is no xenophobia in Switzerland, I'd like to let you know that the federal council disagrees with you:
http://www.ekr.admin.ch/aktuell/index.html?lang=fr Whether it's better or worse than the rest of Europe is not really a concern unless Europe is your only measuring stick.

Something tells me the smokers are just being contrarians here to be difficult, not to make a point of any kind... Fact: Europe has a wee bit of a problem with xenophobia, or else any time there was a thread about asylum seekers, the hate wouldn't treble beyond anything I've ever experienced... I've seen perfectly reasonable people go a bit crazy over immigration while claiming a weird cultural difference.

You're all human aren't you? Get over it, you all want to be healthy, alive, not starve and avoid bombs. The only reason smokers are being unreasonable is because they minimize the effect their smoking has on others since they figure it barely affects them because they're addicted!
Your condition is clear, if not at all obvious to you.

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Old 10.12.2012, 11:12
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

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Since I have asthma, and my health is endangered by smokers, it's a smoker's free pass to kill me by smoking in non-smoking areas I try to stay in? Or am I to die off with evolution? What a wonderful world we live in
if smoke affects you so much, what about cars, someone having a BBQ etc?

do you need one of those bubbles?
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Old 10.12.2012, 14:09
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

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if smoke affects you so much, what about cars, someone having a BBQ etc?

do you need one of those bubbles?
Is this one of those situations where my health threatens others simply because other are not happy with the fact that there exist people that have such a condition?

Cars have a catalytic converter by law.

Considering that second-hand smoke has long been proven to increase the risk for a whole host of illnesses from heart attacks to viral infections by affecting inflammation, the immune response of non-smokers and the blood's clotting ability... Oh I give up.. I don't think you care about the actual effects.
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