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  #141  
Old 11.12.2012, 14:52
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

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Good that's a start, I might have the patience to spend my time answering posts.

No there is no difference regardless of what people tell you, it's all toxic and all unavoidable with similar starting substances.

So lets use the car exhaust example assuming you don't like grilled food. Again organic compound.

No, I'm 1.88m are you talking from your location again? I don't drive a Porsche either.

People just don't want to hear what I have to say:-

a) They have been fed shit for 20 years, through biased study upon biased study
b) It backs up what they "always" knew.
c) it requires a level of education in science many are unwilling, or unable to attain, and therefore refer to b)
d) They detest smoking therefore refer to a)

so there is no difference between bbq smoke and cig smoke, exactly the same chemicals contained in both?
location yes im talking from uranus and you need to wipe a bit more next time....
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  #142  
Old 11.12.2012, 14:53
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

The big three are H2O, CO2, and CO.

And, the CO must already be quite low, otherwise you'd be dead within minutes or hours, rather than decades.

Everything else is negligible.

Tom
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  #143  
Old 11.12.2012, 14:53
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

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Define a poison.

And what is toxic?
What need do i have to define Poison?

Nicotine is the addiction not the smoke. As an ex smoker i cant really describe the taste & effect of inhaling someone else smoke.

It tastes funny, almost good (makes me understand why previous attempts to quit failed in the past) and smoketimes it catches my breath.

I have nothing against smokers. Generally i dont mind people smoking around me. but Yes, i think passive smoking has an effect on the body. That doesnt mean someone will drop dead of a heart attack from passive smoking but i think there are effects... no matter how slight.
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  #144  
Old 11.12.2012, 14:54
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

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That study is a meta analysis or "stats on stats". So biased. no new unbiased work here. I could "select" 101 studies and give you a different answer. This is not science and this sort of work should be banned.

"From a total of 101 primary studies, 55 studies are included in this meta-analysis, of which, 7 are cohort studies, 25 population-based case-control and 23 non-population-based case-control studies. Twenty previously published meta-analyses are also reviewed. Fixed and random effect models and meta-regression are used to obtain pooled estimates of RR and P-value functions are used to demonstrate consistency of results."

From the study method above, what was wrong with the 46 studies they did not use. What was "fixed" ? Oh and it's stats on stats on stats
There's nothing wrong with meta-analysis -done correctly.

If a scientist conducts an experiment and gets result A and publishes his work, it's accepted.

However, if another scientist gets result B then the other scientists don't ignore this and just work with result A, do they?

If hundreds of scientists get a similar result then there's going to be something in the result.

The whole point of meta-analysis is that it makes influencing factors such as the Scottish life-style that you mentioned, insignificant.

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I just wonder how our parents survived with exposure to all this smoke and dangerous chemicals.
They didn't - they died of asbestosis due to exposure to building materials; they died of lung cancer because "They wanted to be in Marlboro country", they died of skin cancer because they didn't appreciate the dangers of the sun.... etc etc

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People just don't want to hear what I have to say:-

a) They have been fed shit for 20 years, through biased study upon biased study
b) It backs up what they "always" knew.
c) it requires a level of education in science many are unwilling, or unable to attain, and therefore refer to b)
d) They detest smoking therefore refer to a)
Or

e) They're addicted smokers who don't have the will-power to give up, are in denial about the harmful effects.

Which one are you Catalyst?
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  #145  
Old 11.12.2012, 14:56
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

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It's nice to encounter another person who has taken the time to read and understand the facts of the matter.

I agree it is can be somewhat bamboozling and requires some focus, but there is a sense of achievement in understanding things for yourself, rather than relying on distorted spoon fed info.

Good post!
Unfortunately I've been here before with similar comments, thank you though!

General Cigarette Smoking complaint thread
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  #146  
Old 11.12.2012, 15:00
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

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There's nothing wrong with meta-analysis -done correctly.

If a scientist conducts an experiment and gets result A and publishes his work, it's accepted.

However, if another scientist gets result B then the other scientists don't ignore this and just work with result A, do they?

If hundreds of scientists get a similar result then there's going to be something in the result.

The whole point of meta-analysis is that it makes influencing factors such as the Scottish life-style that you mentioned, insignificant.

They didn't - they died of asbestosis due to exposure to building materials; they died of lung cancer because "They wanted to be in Marlboro country", they died of skin cancer because they didn't appreciate the dangers of the sun.... etc etc

Or

e) They're addicted smokers who don't have the will-power to give up, are in denial about the harmful effects.

Which one are you Catalyst?
Meta Analysis is lazy science, I can imagine my Prof's face, sorry boss I just thought I'd summarise a few other selected pieces of someone elses work that ok?

Yup exactly what they did here they cherry picked. Furthermore not disclosing which ones they threw out.

But f*** me wasn't the Marlboro man cool?!

f) Reverse psychology doesn't work with me I make my own choices.
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  #147  
Old 11.12.2012, 15:02
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

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Unfortunately I've been here before with similar comments, thank you though!

General Cigarette Smoking complaint thread
Ahhh assumed new, but you had an account in 2007. Ok, either way, good stuff
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  #148  
Old 11.12.2012, 15:07
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

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e) They're addicted smokers who don't have the will-power to give up, are in denial about the harmful effects.

Which one are you Catalyst?
or
f) don't want to.

Why's that not an option?
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  #149  
Old 11.12.2012, 15:10
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

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Meta Analysis is lazy science, I can imagine my Prof's face, sorry boss I just thought I'd summarise a few other selected pieces of someone elses work that ok?
But that's chemistry. Due to medical ethics etc, research cannot be carried out in the same way on human subjects as the other natural sciences.

But with your reasoning, it would be great to get two thousand children form different ethic backgrounds and put half in a smoke filled room for ten years and half not and compare the results in the following years.

We'd know then. Not going to happen though.

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But f*** me wasn't the Marlboro man cool?!
Until he died of...what was it...... oh, lung cancer.

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f) Reverse psychology doesn't work with me I make my own choices.
Strangely, that's what alcoholics say too.
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  #150  
Old 11.12.2012, 15:28
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

Instead of weekly smoking threads would it not be easier just to bump the previous weeks one. If not that one then the week before that, or the week before that or.......................
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  #151  
Old 11.12.2012, 15:30
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

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Instead of weekly smoking threads would it not be easier just to bump the previous weeks one. If not that one then the week before that, or the week before that or.......................
I think its actually been a while since the last one, at least month or two.
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  #152  
Old 11.12.2012, 15:31
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

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Instead of weekly smoking threads would it not be easier just to bump the previous weeks one. If not that one then the week before that, or the week before that or.......................
Nah, fresh each week is better.

I thought smoking was bad for you but I've been convinced by these threads that it's actually good for you so will start smoking in earnest tomorrow.

Actually I was convinced by these up-to-the-minute adverts as well:

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  #153  
Old 11.12.2012, 15:37
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

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Nah, fresh each week is better.

I thought smoking was bad for you but I've been convinced by these threads that it's actually good for you so will start smoking in earnest tomorrow.

Actually I was convinced by these up-to-the-minute adverts as well:

Tell me about it, I thought we needed food to survive too, and then i saw these and thought that cant be healthy. I now dont eat.

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  #154  
Old 11.12.2012, 15:40
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

And thanks to vegan_chef this is all I eat.

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  #155  
Old 11.12.2012, 15:40
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

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Tell me about it, I thought we needed food to survive too, and then i saw these and thought that cant be healthy. I now dont eat.


Are they wearing those foam rubber sumo suits? I do have to say, they're quite realistic but not very flattering.
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  #156  
Old 11.12.2012, 15:55
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

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Tell me about it, I thought we needed food to survive too, and then i saw these and thought that cant be healthy. I now dont eat.
JFC on a pogo stick- that gets filed under 'things you can't unsee'. Why do I worry over a paltry 5 pounds of ass fat with these folks around? I sure hope the Mayans were right as I think I'm just going to lay in as much booze, BBQ and smokes as I can before the end comes on the 21st. Maybe I'll buy a pair of stretchy pants, too.
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  #157  
Old 11.12.2012, 17:29
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

Smoke of the week

A Montecristo Number 2 between friends with a adequate cognac or whisky is the way to go.

Highly recommended for those that don't think the sky will fall on their head within the next week or so

http://www.cigars-review.org/Montecr...risto-No-2.htm
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  #158  
Old 11.12.2012, 17:33
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

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Smoke of the week

A Montecristo Number 2 between friends with a adequate cognac or whisky is the way to go.
That reminds me that I should check the humidity level of my humidor.

Tom
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Old 11.12.2012, 18:15
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

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Instead of weekly smoking threads would it not be easier just to bump the previous weeks one. If not that one then the week before that, or the week before that or.......................
I try not to read them all. I've managed to cut down to 20 a day.
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Old 11.12.2012, 18:40
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

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So you understand nothing of basic combustion then or Chemistry.

Organic = A compound that contains Carbon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_compound

Organic substances burn and produce CO2 and H20. Anything additional is in such small quantities it's hardly worth discussing to "Second hand smokers"

We can if you choose get into a Chemistry based conversation about ratios, amounts and various other bits and pieces or methanol production through smoking. (check for asparazine

Really I can't be bothered to explain this to you. There are over 5000 chemicals in Cigarette smoke, but how many do you think are produced in other combustion processes? Yup similar numbers.

These are the ones you should be interested in though. (Give up the diet coke habit!)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...erph-08-00613/

Inefficient burning produces Carbon Monoxide which is the primary bi-product of any combustion process and one of the reasons why cars have catalytic converters.

Its simple tobacco is a plant, BBQ bricks came from a plant = coal/coke. Wood on a BBQ comes from a plant. Petrol/Diesel come from a plant. The reality is the same you combine the organic with Oxygen to produce Co2/H20. They all contain Carbon compounds therefore likely to give similar results when under combustion.

I can't be bothered to sum this up for you but here's a taste.

http://www.smokescreens.org/chapter2.htm

"Methanol then breaks down into formic acid and formaldehyde[15] in the body – formaldehyde is a well known deadly neurotoxin. An EPA assessment states that methanol “is considered a cumulative poison due to the low rate of excretion once it is absorbed. In the body, methanol is oxidised to formaldehyde and formic acid; both of these metabolites are toxic”. The recommended limit of consumption is 7.8mg/day, however a one litre beverage containing aspartame, such as Diet Coke, contains about 56mg of methanol. People ingesting a lot of products with aspartame can find themselves consuming up to 250mg of methanol a day – 32 times the EPA limit. The troops of Desert Storm were given large amounts of beverages sweetened with aspartame which had been heated to over 86°F in the Saudi Arabian sun, and many of the soldiers returned home with numerous disorders similar to what has been witnessed in those who have been poisoned by formaldehyde. It is possible that the methanol in the drinks the soldiers consumed was a contributing factor in these illnesses."

Thank you for this long, involved, and very relevant post regarding the dangers of smoking diet coke.

Edit - In order to strengthen your point, I think that your next cigarette should consist of shredded plastic and hair since any variation in smoke is so insignificant that it's "hardly worth discussing".

Last edited by Principia Discordia; 11.12.2012 at 18:54.
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