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  #161  
Old 11.12.2012, 18:59
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

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Thank you for this long, involved, and very relevant post regarding the dangers of smoking diet coke.

Edit - In order to strengthen your point, I think that your next cigarette should consist of shredded plastic and hair since any variation in smoke is so insignificant that it's "hardly worth discussing".
So what is it you do not understand?

Edit: actually, it doesn't matter. I realise you understand that the chemicals people are worried about in second hand smoke are in larger quantities in every day items, such as carbonated drinks, and thus consumed more freely than any amount of second hand smoke will ever do, and that you are just being facetious
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  #162  
Old 11.12.2012, 19:04
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

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So what is it you do not understand?
That invite extends to you as well. Go smoke some plastic and hair, and then come back and tell us all how smoke equals smoke equals smoke.

Edit- ok, ok, I'll humor you. I don't think that the dangers of aspartame are relevant to this discussion because 1. I don't touch the stuff and 2. No one is forced to consume diet soda because the guy next to them is drinking it.
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  #163  
Old 11.12.2012, 19:09
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

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That invite extends to you as well. Go smoke some plastic and hair, and then come back and tell us all how smoke equals smoke equals smoke.

Edit- ok, ok, I'll humor you. I don't think that the dangers of aspartame are relevant to this discussion because 1. I don't touch the stuff and 2. No one is forced to consume diet soda because the guy next to them is drinking it.
Ahh ok, you didnt understand it. I was too generous. Nevermind
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  #164  
Old 11.12.2012, 19:16
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

Of course I understand it, but those everyday items containing some of the same chemicals that concern people in second smoke are not ingested against your will at a bus stop, outside the entrance to a restaurant, etc. Who is ever forced to consume carbonated soda like you force bystanders to inhale your smoke? Please tell me where my logic is wrong.
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  #165  
Old 11.12.2012, 19:23
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

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Of course I understand it, but those everyday items containing some of the same chemicals that concern people in second smoke are not ingested against your will at a bus stop, outside the entrance to a restaurant, etc. Who is ever forced to consume carbonated soda like you force bystanders to inhale your smoke? Please tell me where my logic is wrong.
I think the point was, the traces in smoke are so small that they are insignificant. I appreciate to a non smoker, any amount is significant, even if you would have to live to 1000 for it have a noticeable affect on ones health.

No one is forced to drink carbonated drinks, however, billions do, not knowing about the things it contains, or at least no public agenda is drummed up against them to outcast them from society and start a hate mob, using their and their childrens health as weight in the argument.

I bet you drive a car though, or perhaps wear deodrant, or perhaps have had a bonfire or two in your life..........alas, you have forced others to inhale toxins.

We just all learn to live with it, or fear we will die if it doesnt stop now. I choose the former
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  #166  
Old 11.12.2012, 19:39
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

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Well, my asthma is controlled because I do not use perfume, scented soaps, scented detergents or scented deodorants. Other people's scents don't bother me because I've cut them out of my own life and can handle other's. The only thing that still gets me an attack is cigarette smoke and bug spray. Thankfully, I don't smoke and don't have a bug problem in my flat. Unfortunately other people do smoke in enclosed and covered areas thinking they're just making a bad smell.

Quite frankly, we know the difference second hand smoke makes. Both France and Switzerland have had studies outlining drops in heart attacks in non-smokers since the smoking bans went through. In the canton of Graubunden, the drop was close to 25% when compared to the canton of Luzern. Now this was just one marker, there are plenty more, in France, non-smoking bar owners had a huge drop in the number of viral infections they had after the ban was implemented.

People can smoke all they want, but they shouldn't kid themselves that it's a right or harmless to others. To do so is simply not logical... but I guess humans are emotional beings.
Good to hear that you have taken the steps required for YOU. That smoking in semi-covered areas and semi-enclosed areas IS a nuisance is clear, but unavoidable. But simply realize that most smokers do not regard the result of the doing as a bad smell, but as a good smell, something they enjoy.

And you guess right in regard to emotional beings as there otherwise would not be so many smoking docs. To paraphrase famous Peter Frankenfeld who once joke "ich habe schon viel mehr alte Säufer als alte Aerzte gesehen" "I have seen far more serious drinkers than old doctors" you might well say that you saw more old smokers than old docs Uncle Bill in Marshall Texas who was a heavy smoker all his live died of old age at 87 just as my dad who was a definite non-smoker.
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  #167  
Old 11.12.2012, 21:07
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

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So what is it you do not understand?

Edit: actually, it doesn't matter. I realise you understand that the chemicals people are worried about in second hand smoke are in larger quantities in every day items, such as carbonated drinks, and thus consumed more freely than any amount of second hand smoke will ever do, and that you are just being facetious
Didn't mean to groan this post btw. Stupid iPhone...
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  #168  
Old 12.12.2012, 16:04
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

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Good to hear that you have taken the steps required for YOU. That smoking in semi-covered areas and semi-enclosed areas IS a nuisance is clear, but unavoidable. But simply realize that most smokers do not regard the result of the doing as a bad smell, but as a good smell, something they enjoy.

Actually, it stinks & as a smoker i never realised it. Till i quit. Now, if a smoker (just after a smoke) is talking to me up close it literally takes my breath away. Yuck.

But in outdoor spaces... Smoke away! Doesnt bother me!
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  #169  
Old 12.12.2012, 16:15
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

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Actually, it stinks & as a smoker i never realised it. Till i quit. Now, if a smoker (just after a smoke) is talking to me up close it literally takes my breath away. Yuck.

But in outdoor spaces... Smoke away! Doesnt bother me!
Whats hell for some is heaven for others. Isn't diversity great?
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  #170  
Old 12.12.2012, 16:23
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

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Whats hell for some is heaven for others. Isn't diversity great?
Il take your word for it but personally, Ive yet to meet some one who enjoys that particular stale smell.
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  #171  
Old 12.12.2012, 16:47
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

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Il take your word for it but personally, Ive yet to meet some one who enjoys that particular stale smell.
Atleast it's consistent. This is why I believe the world should vote on their favourite perfume/colognes and everyone should just wear the same one. Open to yearly change ups to mix it up a bit.

The stale smoke is a byproduct of the enjoyment of smoking. Cant be helped. But some people willingly spray shit on themselves. Ever come out of a corporate lift on a Friday evening?
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  #172  
Old 12.12.2012, 20:31
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

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Il take your word for it but personally, Ive yet to meet some one who enjoys that particular stale smell.
Don`t know about others, but the particular stale smell I do NOT enjoy is that of a multitude of sweaty bodies, gathered in a closed area, drinking alcohol.

Before, I never noticed the sweaty bodies smell - it was masked by the dense pall of cigarette smoke, which made it stinky, but not puke stinky.
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  #173  
Old 13.12.2012, 08:55
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

After the smoking Ban came into effect in Ireland... The SMELL of the night clubs and pubs were unbelievable!!!!

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  #174  
Old 13.12.2012, 18:40
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

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After the smoking Ban came into effect in Ireland... The SMELL of the night clubs and pubs were unbelievable!!!!

BEFORE the Smoking-Bans, people believed that the lousy smell in places was a result of smoking. This of course was true to a heavy extent BUT AFTER the Smoking-Bans, it became evident that quite many places simply lacked fresh air. Any pub or night club or restaurant without the possibility to open the windows should have an air-conditioning

I on visits to the USA often thought that air-conditioning over there was rather a bit overdone, true, but well appreciated that there was not so much bad smelling.
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Old 14.12.2012, 15:20
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

But you know, its nice to come home and not be stinking of smoke.
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  #176  
Old 14.12.2012, 15:25
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

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BEFORE the Smoking-Bans, people believed that the lousy smell in places was a result of smoking. This of course was true to a heavy extent BUT AFTER the Smoking-Bans, it became evident that quite many places simply lacked fresh air. Any pub or night club or restaurant without the possibility to open the windows should have an air-conditioning

I on visits to the USA often thought that air-conditioning over there was rather a bit overdone, true, but well appreciated that there was not so much bad smelling.
I've heard that's because North Americans wash more than us Europeans.
(well, you continental types, anyway )
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Old 14.12.2012, 18:41
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

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BEFORE the Smoking-Bans, people believed that the lousy smell in places was a result of smoking. This of course was true to a heavy extent BUT AFTER the Smoking-Bans, it became evident that quite many places simply lacked fresh air. Any pub or night club or restaurant without the possibility to open the windows should have an air-conditioning

I on visits to the USA often thought that air-conditioning over there was rather a bit overdone, true, but well appreciated that there was not so much bad smelling.
What amazes me, is that the smoking ban seems not to be about "health" somehow. I say this because we have one new restaurant/pub that has enormous air-conditioning/extractors, where lots of popular evenings used to be spent by almost everyone in this town.

But - because it does not have another larger area for non-smokers, it is now a non-smoking pub. And stands virtually empty. A few old ladies drink coffee there in the mornings.

However. Another little old ancient low ceilinged restaurant/pub is allowed to have smoking ..... because it also has a very large "other room" which is for non-smokers, and a seperate dining room (both the other room and dining room are always empty too), but it meets the requirements of the law.

And this little pub/restaurant, being the only smoking venue in town, is crammed with people - and stinks to high heaven - when people stand up their heads are lost in the smoke haze!

Healthy? Would have been "healthier" to allow the smokers in the bigger room with high vaulted ceilings, and in the other pub with its modern air-conditioning. Smoke RISES. And needs to be either in a high room, or sucked out! But who cares about the needs of smokers! As long as the non-smokers have their empty restaurants/pubs.

It`s a stupid law, and makes no sense. Instead, everyone is going out of business.

I`m talking here about the small Swiss villages, not the big cities/towns, where there are masses of restaurants/pubs to choose from.
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  #178  
Old 15.12.2012, 01:25
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

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What amazes me, is that the smoking ban seems not to be about "health" somehow. I say this because we have one new restaurant/pub that has enormous air-conditioning/extractors, where lots of popular evenings used to be spent by almost everyone in this town.

But - because it does not have another larger area for non-smokers, it is now a non-smoking pub. And stands virtually empty. A few old ladies drink coffee there in the mornings.

However. Another little old ancient low ceilinged restaurant/pub is allowed to have smoking ..... because it also has a very large "other room" which is for non-smokers, and a seperate dining room (both the other room and dining room are always empty too), but it meets the requirements of the law.

And this little pub/restaurant, being the only smoking venue in town, is crammed with people - and stinks to high heaven - when people stand up their heads are lost in the smoke haze!

Healthy? Would have been "healthier" to allow the smokers in the bigger room with high vaulted ceilings, and in the other pub with its modern air-conditioning. Smoke RISES. And needs to be either in a high room, or sucked out! But who cares about the needs of smokers! As long as the non-smokers have their empty restaurants/pubs.

It`s a stupid law, and makes no sense. Instead, everyone is going out of business.

I`m talking here about the small Swiss villages, not the big cities/towns, where there are masses of restaurants/pubs to choose from.
No, the Cantonal smoking ban is an excellent law, which in case of Zürich allows served fumoirs. And I since the start of the smoking ban have been in enough pubs and restaurants (even in villages) who still are full in spite of the smoking ban. "Gastronomes" who are unable to achieve deserve to get out of business.

You mention the place where the main rooms are always empty . This may well be but either the manager is a failure or he is a smoker who concentrates all his marketing skills on the Fumoir and on intent neglects the main-rooms. Which is outright silly.

And you forget the best aspect about the smoking-ban and that is that the outdoor-gastronomy which was neglected since the mid-70ies, made a big and tremendous re-start.

Back to your start. WHERE do those "popular evenings" now take place ? The smokers are a 30% minority, which means that whomever caters for people who want to be around at such events can count on a 70% majority.

And finally, you mention health but the main point was and is life quality. For most people, the smoking ban was primarily about life-quality and about health only second.
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Old 15.12.2012, 16:47
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

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What about if i stop paying my rent until it gets fixed??
Worst idea.

If the Mieterverband is not able to help you, e.g. because you are not a member, you may also contact the Schlichtungsbehörde Miete. I actually don't know if they are giving advise but it might be worth a try. But I know for sure, you have the option, after you set a deadline to your landlord to get the problem fixed and he hasn't resolved it by then, to pay a part of the rent to the Schlichtungsbehörde. Therefore you didn't pay the landlord but it is considered as you are still paying the rent. As soon as the problem/situation is resolved, the amount you paid to the Schlichtungsbehörde will be released to your landlord.

I once prepared the whole thing. After I mentioned in a conversation that I knew about this option, all of a sudden my landlord took care of the problem. Hadn't he done anything, I would have set the landlord a deadline by registered mail. But fortunately I didn't had to go that far.

I don't know where you live but even though the following article is from Lucerne, it may also be applicable in your area. By "...Tut sie das nicht, kann man unter Umständen eine Mietzinsreduktion verlangen oder durch eine amtliche Hinterlegung des Mietzinses Druck aufsetzen. ", which is mentioned at the end, is exactly what I just described with the Schlichtungsbehörde.

http://www.mieterverband.ch/fileadmi...pp_Rauchen.pdf - it is in German, if translation for anyone ist needed, let me know.

Good luck with whatever you do
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  #180  
Old 15.12.2012, 16:55
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Re: Smoking issue from neighbours

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The smokers are a 30% minority, which means that whomever caters for people who want to be around at such events can count on a 70% majority.
Not at all.

I don't smoke, but will chose a smoking place over a non-smoking place.

Tom
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