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Old 02.10.2006, 17:46
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Intruder! (part2 Sh*tty neighbours)

Earlier this spring...

"Mr Cxxxxx, did someone visit my home during my vacation in my home country?"
(I was back home visit in Asia for 3 weeks during Jan-Feb)

"Nein" was the answer, meaning no.


"Mr Cxxxxx, did anyone you know visit my home during my absence?"
Still no.

"Let me rephrase that question. Did YOU, Mr Cxxxx, come inside my apartment during my absence during my home vacation".
Still no.

"Would you like to go with me to the police station and view the video file which showed you and another person entering my home for at least 5 minutes during xx Jan 2006 at xx:xx hrs"

"Oh...yes I entered, but just to check the lights and make sure water is switched off".

Yeah, right.

Those were the exact transcript between my neighbour and homeowner of my apartment during Feb 2006, when my CCTV (automatic webcam) caught him entering my home, without informing me before or after the event, with his girlfriend (presumbly to show her the "asset" he has). He is a retired old man (previously from Sicily), maybe 60plus or 70plus years old.

There was a translator who is a 3rd neighbour, she was very very embarrassed (I did say i want to talk to his English-speaking daughter about this private matter instead, but Mr Cxxxxx said ok with this neighbour).

He further explained "nothing happened" and that I gave him a spare key, and therefore it implies I am ok with him coming into the apartment to check on things. He also said he did this with other apartment which he owned and that renter did not complain.

My point is this:
He lied when I asked him.
3 times.
And in addition, he brought an unknown person also.

I took back the spare key (and because we could not easily move with newborn baby coming) I stopped the possible legal proceedings against him.
It is called "Intrusion into private property (while I rented it)".

Comments?
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Old 02.10.2006, 18:01
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Re: Intruder! (part2 Sh*tty neighbours)

We had the same problem with the landlady we had when we lived in Bern; only difference was she didn't try to hide it. We would come home from work to find our things moved or in the bucket. When we looked into this we found out that is illegal for a landlady/lord to come into the apartment without your permission. As we knew she would not change, she was a total b1tch, we decided to move out. With all the problems you are having can you move?
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Old 02.10.2006, 18:26
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Re: Intruder! (part2 Sh*tty neighbours)

I reckon from my experience many private landlords do this. The curiosity factor is too much for them: well done you having the webcam on, ha! ha! Classic.

My old landlord had a mega-security issue: just like GWB, it all was excused in the name of homeland security. He had automatic light sensors in all public areas, with a really obvious 'hidden' cam mounted above each sensor. It felt creepy. I felt like I was in that bad film 'Sliver', with the owner having a room full of monitors, watching...watching... or it would be knock-knock in_he_came, permission or not, tenants clothed or not!

Do what I did and give them an almighty shouting at right in the hallway, so everyone can hear, next time you find out. You know they'd readily humiliate you and ultimately they will when you move out when they'll complain about damage. It's lose-lose, so have fun losing and yell at them. Nothing hurts more than public humiliation here...

Last edited by Uncle Max; 03.10.2006 at 13:34.
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Old 02.10.2006, 19:06
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Re: Intruder! (part2 Sh*tty neighbours)

Hey, HAT!
First of all, congratulations on the arrival of your baby!
I guess it'll be hard to move to a new place right now, but I agree with everybody else, you must do it asap. The trouble with your landlord will continue because these people don't tend to change. Good thing that you took the spare key back, at least you won't be getting any more unwanted visitors.
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Old 03.10.2006, 00:35
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Re: Intruder! (part2 Sh*tty neighbours)

Hi Hat,

We had the same thing. The electricians sent a letter just before we were due to go on holiday saying they needed access. Since we were going away my girlfriend phoned them and specifically told them that there were NOT to come in.

When we returned we found all the electrical things had been unplugged. Girlfriend phoned the boss of the company and asked why they had disobeyed her instruction. They said that the neighbour had given them the key (because they told him we forgot to give them a key!) My girlfriend was furious, but the guy refused to apologise or admit any wrongdoing. She called the police and the police said she was right, it was technically illegal, but because the neighbour gave them a key, and it was pre-arranged with everyone it could be considered a grey area. The police phoned the company and the next thing the boss called back with a grovelling apology - which is all we wanted in the first place.

But Hat - in your case it is more clear cut. I would have gone to the police and pressed charges. My landlord does not have a copy of the key - there is no requirement for them to hold them. You should hold ALL your keys, and give them only to people you trust. You were right to ask for your keys back, but raising the matter with the police will make the landlord think twice about trying this on someone else.
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Old 03.10.2006, 13:51
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Re: Intruder! (part2 Sh*tty neighbours)

Hi all,
Thanks for the support and the encouragement to move.

Thing is, this "landlord" appears to be totally harmless, except that he prefers to lie and not tell the truth. He lied about other things too. But really harmless.

Technically he is only the father of the legal landlords (his son and daughter). The daughter has apologised when I mentioned this to her several months later. I think the old geezer is more embarrassed than anything. The translator neighbour and the hauswart (housekeeper) know about this, cos I told them.

Did I tell the funny part that 2 weeks after that "face off", the washing machine PLUS the dryer broke down? (we have our own small washing room within the apartment, hence the reluctance to relocate). That was hilarious.

The old man actually thought I was playing a trick. But the washing machine went first, he grudgingly bought a new one. It arrived and I washed my laundry, then we discovered the dryer is also broken. He himself tried for 1 hr to open the damm cover. In end, he almost broke it and found the belt has snapped. Since he could not open the panel, he knew it was not me. Then he had to buy again the new dryer.
We have new washing machine and new dryer.
God bless.

I did tell him, that repairing the machines is acceptable for me, but he preferred to replace them, I think he knew the age of these machines. So there. Next is the dishwasher and oven, i hope...

BTW, I asked him about price he had to pay, he lied again, doubling it. He simply does not know www.toppreise.ch or www.guenstiger.de.
I would pay top dollars for you to see his face then....damm funny.

HAT
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Old 03.10.2006, 14:01
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Re: Intruder! (part2 Sh*tty neighbours)

Mmmmmm HAT you seem to be out to outsmart the world. And when you've succeeded, then what?

Mary has the best advice - "move on, love" - both physically finding a new place and forgetting about setting traps if you don't like what you find in them...
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Old 03.10.2006, 21:46
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Re: Intruder! (part2 Sh*tty neighbours)

Yeah, there is something about the original post that doesn't sit easy with me. Will you secretly film your babysitter too ?

Landlord should not have been in apartment, clear. But I'm guessing this is a symptom of deeper rift.

You really don't sound happy where you are, so I would at least make the decision to move, so these issues in your present place can diminish.

dave



Quote:
Mmmmmm HAT you seem to be out to outsmart the world. And when you've succeeded, then what?

Mary has the best advice - "move on, love" - both physically finding a new place and forgetting about setting traps if you don't like what you find in them...
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  #9  
Old 03.10.2006, 22:51
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Re: Intruder! (part2 Sh*tty neighbours)

Quote:
Mmmmmm HAT you seem to be out to outsmart the world. And when you've succeeded, then what?

Mary has the best advice - "move on, love" - both physically finding a new place and forgetting about setting traps if you don't like what you find in them...
Hello,
Sorry I don't understand how I am trying to outsmart the world.
I really don't understand. (see next post pls)

Mary has "best" advice? It seems to you, yes I can respect your view.
Well, it could be that I am bad neighbour and whereever I move, I still say I have shitty neighbours?
My pt is, best or worst advice, I think I am pretty smart to see it too.
I thought of moving, but I am not a ostrich in the sand. I'd rather stay on, and not admit defeat.

HAT

Last edited by HAT; 04.10.2006 at 00:18.
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Old 03.10.2006, 22:55
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Re: Intruder! (part2 Sh*tty neighbours)

Quote:
Yeah, there is something about the original post that doesn't sit easy with me. Will you secretly film your babysitter too ?

Landlord should not have been in apartment, clear. But I'm guessing this is a symptom of deeper rift.

You really don't sound happy where you are, so I would at least make the decision to move, so these issues in your present place can diminish.

dave
Hello Dave,
I set up the webcam as a "new toy", cos I just bought it. Never in my life did I expect to "catch" the neighbour. I was as shocked to see email video as he is being caught.

There is no deeper rift. Before this, I even said he is a kind old man. He looked pretty harmless.

I do plan to move, thanks. I listed the events so that the forumers can see the danger of trusting too much the neighbours, and also to highlight the funny side of things.
I did not expect strong opinions to "make me move", and "big brother" fears.


But thanks anyway.
HAT

Last edited by HAT; 04.10.2006 at 00:18.
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Old 03.10.2006, 23:55
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Re: Intruder! (part2 Sh*tty neighbours)

OK. I've highlighted a few things in your post(s). They appear really unhelpful in my view. You call someone a liar and you are heading for a confrontation. Even the title of the threads says a lot more than you realise. In not interested in reading about your plight any more.

dave

Quote:
the forumers can see the danger of trusting too much the neighbours, and also to highlight the funny side of things.
HAT
Quote:
Hi all,
Thanks for the support and the encouragement to move.

Thing is, this "landlord" appears to be totally harmless, except that he prefers to lie and not tell the truth. He lied about other things too. But really harmless.

Technically he is only the father of the legal landlords (his son and daughter). The daughter has apologised when I mentioned this to her several months later. I think the old geezer is more embarrassed than anything. The translator neighbour and the hauswart (housekeeper) know about this, cos I told them.

Did I tell the funny part that 2 weeks after that "face off", the washing machine PLUS the dryer broke down? (we have our own small washing room within the apartment, hence the reluctance to relocate). That was hilarious.

The old man actually thought I was playing a trick. But the washing machine went first, he grudgingly bought a new one. It arrived and I washed my laundry, then we discovered the dryer is also broken. He himself tried for 1 hr to open the damm cover. In end, he almost broke it and found the belt has snapped. Since he could not open the panel, he knew it was not me. Then he had to buy again the new dryer.
We have new washing machine and new dryer.
God bless.


I did tell him, that repairing the machines is acceptable for me, but he preferred to replace them, I think he knew the age of these machines. So there. Next is the dishwasher and oven, i hope...

BTW, I asked him about price he had to pay, he lied again, doubling it. He simply does not know www.toppreise.ch or www.guenstiger.de.
I would pay top dollars for you to see his face then....damm funny.

HAT
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  #12  
Old 04.10.2006, 00:14
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Re: Intruder! (part2 Sh*tty neighbours)

Quote:
OK. I've highlighted a few things in your post(s). They appear really unhelpful in my view. You call someone a liar and you are heading for a confrontation. Even the title of the threads says a lot more than you realise. In not interested in reading about your plight any more.

dave
Not wishing to appear ungrateful, let me clearly state that this elderly man IS a perpectual liar, and I have several proofs which can stand in COURT, if need be.

A person who enters your home without informing you, is an INTRUDER.
What else can you call him? A surprise visitor?

Good that you are clear about reading my "plight".
Fortunately, even if you are admin or Senior Member, I believe you will not unjustly cancel my membership? OR did I break any rules when using this forum?

This is inside the Complaints Corner, is it not?
It says "Something really annoyed you lately? Get it off your chest here. If you are easily offended, please look elsewhere"

I stated some facts, and applied some of MY opinions or interpretations on them. You can disagree, but you should not impose YOUR opinion about MY opinions. Or should I write things that YOU agree on?

HAT

Ok Dave, lets not continue the flaming. Thanks and lets shake hands and cool off.
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Old 04.10.2006, 11:34
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Re: Intruder! (part2 Sh*tty neighbours)

Just something I wanted to mention to cool down this thread (and the other neighbour thread).

This is the complaints corner, and people do have the right to complain. HAT does not speak English natively and therefore we should cut him a little slack - there will be some misunderstandings.

HAT, by the same token your use of emoticons are good, but you are sometimes using the incorrect emoticon. For example if you move your mouse over the raised eyebrow guy you'll see it says "sarcastic".

So in summary we should all remember that the responses we give in the complaints corner might be different to the ones we give in help and tips. Sometimes people want to get something off their chest rather than having to justify and defend a complaint - If I'm ticked off about something there's nothing that gets my goat up more than having to argue about whether or not I have the right to be upset.
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Old 04.10.2006, 12:11
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Re: Intruder! (part2 Sh*tty neighbours)

It is worth noting that a landlord has rights of entry under certain circumstances, and this is a common feature of rental contracts. And while his entry may have not been authorised (from the way you describe it), I think this guy is less likely to be entering with criminal intent IMO.

This has no bearing on the discussion. I am simply saying: having read all your posts, expect no sympathy from me. You are perfectly at rights to post what you like (subject to the mod's moderation obviously).
Quote:
Good that you are clear about reading my "plight".
Fortunately, even if you are admin or Senior Member, I believe you will not unjustly cancel my membership? OR did I break any rules when using this forum?
It certainly is, and you are performing admirably.
Quote:
This is inside the Complaints Corner, is it not?
It says "Something really annoyed you lately? Get it off your chest here. If you are easily offended, please look elsewhere"
Complain away, but please don't be so naive to think that you will find only agreement when posting such smug vitriol.
Quote:

You can disagree, but you should not impose YOUR opinion about MY opinions. Or should I write things that YOU agree on?
I will comment no further on your complaints.
dave
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Old 04.10.2006, 12:36
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Re: Intruder! (part2 Sh*tty neighbours)

I just can't help but wonder why this all can't fit into the original thread.
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Old 04.10.2006, 12:38
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Re: Intruder! (part2 Sh*tty neighbours)

Quote:
I just can't help but wonder why this all can't fit into the original thread.
That's a good point PD - I'm glad someone else said it. HAT - PD is right - we have three threads running about very similiar topics.

Unfortunately I can't merge them now, it would turn into a big confusing mess. Mods take note - this is the disadvantage of letting something "run its course"
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Old 04.10.2006, 14:09
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Re: Intruder! (part2 Sh*tty neighbours)

In Australia, and I can imagine most other countries have something similar, the landlord must give at least two weeks notice when he needs to enter a rented premises. Even then he must indicate exactly why. He must also give the tenant the opportunity to arrange a convenient time. The only time he can enter without notice is in an emergency (eg. a broken water pipe that is flooding the premises). ANYTHING ELSE IS STRAIGHT OUT BREAKING AND ENTERING. By renting a premises a landlord must accept that this becomes the tenants home, and must be respected as such.

If this place does not have a similar law then it is very worrying indeed.
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Old 04.10.2006, 18:58
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Re: Intruder! (part2 Sh*tty neighbours)

The exact same thing happened to me while I was living in Scotland.
Believe it or not, we too had a setup of a webcam that would automaticaly record as something would move in front of it.

Police at the time told me that since they are the "landlords" they have every right to get in and out when they wanted...
I immediately changed flat and later moved out from Scotland :P
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Old 05.10.2006, 10:50
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Re: Intruder! (part2 Sh*tty neighbours)

Hey Hat! You've got to chill...

I understand you have problems, issues with your neighbours and it's very frustrating. Indeed this is the complaints corner... However, the best approach would be to actually concentrate your energies into finding a new "home" where you and your family can find some peace and make your experience in Switzerland a memorable one. Otherwise you will end up as a bitter person and join their club...
The Swiss lady upstairs will keep on playing opera, the intruder might show up again with a master key... so stop with the things you cannnot change, understand how to end this, shake off the dust and start wearing some happy emoticons.

Good luck!
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Old 06.10.2006, 14:26
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Re: Intruder! (part2 Sh*tty neighbours)

Heh,
I am cool.

With one-liners, included by some users, I am unsure if they are sarcastic, me-knows-all, or just simply baiting for a fight.

I apologise for posting 3 threads on similar discussion. I did not wish to justify anything, however viewing other threads by the same user, led me to think one-liners with some serious name-calling, is the norm for some users. I think they are uncalled for.

I regret that this thread turned into a firing-squad flaming contest. Sorry, I take blame for that.

I may be a newbie in this forum, but I take issue with "senior" forumers who bully others when they do not actually see the whole picture. Although they are entitled to their views, I hope they will also try to understand that this Complaint Corner is a great place to write something to take it off our minds.

I appreciate that, any sarcastic comment is not useful to pacifying an "angry" person who write to this column anyway.

I am sure those who are at loggerheads, are GREAT guys/gals in their own right. However lets just stick to the written topic and stop classifying others, giving labels or implying things about their characters.

Come on, I posted less than 50 messages and I am totally understood and even "classified"?

One thing is for sure, I am not the quiet guy.

For those who are interested, we actually like the apartment, and some cool neighbours.

The landlord's untruthful father, the crazy lonely woman and the (now quiet) nightshift taximan downstairs, do not warrant us to uproot ourselves again in just 2 years. We will look for another house with a garden for our children, but the pull factor and not the push factor will help our decision.
Again, thanks for all the replies and support given here.

Winter is long, lets all shake hands and call it a day.

HAT
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