Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Complaints corner  
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 12.07.2006, 20:33
heather's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: canton zurich
Posts: 138
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
heather has made some interesting contributions
Re: Are the swiss racist?

i replied a little too quickly and meant to say 'SOME people in the UK"
  #62  
Old 12.07.2006, 21:12
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 4
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
JudyK has no particular reputation at present
Re: Are the swiss racist?

Quote:
So are you saying we are ALL ignorant or just Americans? your post has no point to it whatsoever!! The main point here is the fact that the Swiss generally can openly racist whereas in other countries this is not tollerated even if there are racist people in that country, obviously we are not ignorant we know that every country has racism - the point here is that it is openly accepted here to the point where a black person may not get a job because the lady at the employment office warned the prospective employer that they were black - aree you saying this sort of practice is common in all countries? I think not
Ah.. here we go again! Look.. I know the same thing happens in other countries, too!! You can say anything you want.. I KNOW it happens in other countries, too! I've got friends from all over the world who have already experienced it... be it in the USA, GB, Italy, China, ....!
Besides.. not all Swiss people are like that. I've got some very good Swiss friends and they don't like what's going on in Switzerland. So, it's really very unfair to say that Swiss people in general are racist when in fact a lot of them aren't!
  #63  
Old 12.07.2006, 21:18
gbn's Avatar
gbn gbn is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Zuri Oberland
Posts: 2,747
Groaned at 104 Times in 71 Posts
Thanked 2,398 Times in 1,124 Posts
gbn has a reputation beyond reputegbn has a reputation beyond reputegbn has a reputation beyond reputegbn has a reputation beyond reputegbn has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Are the swiss racist?

Quote:
Hey you all!!

You're a bunch of ignorant people!! Do you honestly think it's anything better in your home countries??? i tell you something: IT'S NOT!!!! I know it's just the same or even worse in my home country as it is over here in switzerland! ..and to all the americans here complaining about the swiss: you're the last people who should complain about racist people in switzerland!! look at what is happening in your own country..and look at your president!! the swiss are not more or less racist than people elsewhere. besides.. you're discriminating the swiss now, too! so.. that basically makes you all being racists, too!
Ah another US expat democrat... is that racist...
Now, about the US president.. Colin Powell, Condoleezza Rice... very racist...
He may be many things (like the anti-christ for 115% of democrats), but racist... hmmm... probably not.

Now, I've seen what happens on extwats-in-zurich (cheers Lob) when someone disagrees with US expats, so let's see what happens now I've posted...
Unless you're not from the US of A and are taking upon yourself to be offended on people's behalf?

Anyway somewhat off topic, perhaps.

It is better in the UK, far better than here. And I can't recall knowing anyone (non-Swiss) with racist views.
  #64  
Old 12.07.2006, 21:27
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 4
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
JudyK has no particular reputation at present
Re: Are the swiss racist?

yeah.. right! we're all angels! ..except the Swiss of course!

As for the US President..: uhmm.. what happened again in New Orleans..? think about it and then tell me whether you still think that he's not racist! ..and if you still think he's not racist.. ask the people in New Orleans what they think!
  #65  
Old 12.07.2006, 21:33
muze7's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Uk now after Neuchatel
Posts: 1,241
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 158 Times in 102 Posts
muze7 is considered knowledgeablemuze7 is considered knowledgeablemuze7 is considered knowledgeable
Re: Are the swiss racist?

To JudyK, yes, our home countries can be bad, but in mine it is not regarded socially acceptable to be derogative of people due to their race/religion etc. I think that is the crux of this thread, and the title is a bit misleading, in that yes, all countries are probably full of citizens with views one could consider racist, but what some of us foreigners are struck by, is that here it seems more accepted than elsewhere as something that is normal. And I for one do not ever want to get to a stage where society does not fight this anymore. So yes, this should also apply to the US if that is appropriate, but this I cannot judge, and probably deserves its own thread in any case.

And I am not American nor from the UK.

Oh and if you need an example, I thought the London commemorations, at least the advance special that I saw on the bombings and people's reactions, were an example of how it could also be approached, I mean London's attitude towards multiculturism. It is possible that my impression is wrong, as it is purely based on media images, but unfortunately, the impression of some Swiss people is based on real experiences. It would be nice if these are an exception, and especially if the young Swiss can be a bridge generation, perhaps like the young Germans have been.
  #66  
Old 12.07.2006, 21:38
gbn's Avatar
gbn gbn is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Zuri Oberland
Posts: 2,747
Groaned at 104 Times in 71 Posts
Thanked 2,398 Times in 1,124 Posts
gbn has a reputation beyond reputegbn has a reputation beyond reputegbn has a reputation beyond reputegbn has a reputation beyond reputegbn has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Are the swiss racist?

Quote:
yeah.. right! we're all angels! ..except the Swiss of course!

As for the US President..: uhmm.. what happened again in New Orleans..? think about it and then tell me whether you still think that he's not racist! ..and if you still think he's not racist.. ask the people in New Orleans what they think!
What happened in New Orleans... Decades of corruption by left leaning politicos. A quick google:
http://www.noagenda.org/
http://commonsensewonder.com/?p=864
http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story....a-b7a621d65177
http://www.city-journal.org/html/15_4_new_orleans.html
http://www.leftturn.org/Articles/Vie...?id=670&type=W

Interesting is it not? But it's nice to have scapegoat in Bush...
  #67  
Old 12.07.2006, 22:09
evilshell's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: UK, formerly Basel
Posts: 3,347
Groaned at 97 Times in 81 Posts
Thanked 3,093 Times in 1,341 Posts
evilshell has a reputation beyond reputeevilshell has a reputation beyond reputeevilshell has a reputation beyond reputeevilshell has a reputation beyond reputeevilshell has a reputation beyond reputeevilshell has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Are the swiss racist?

Quote:
yeah.. right! we're all angels! ..except the Swiss of course!

As for the US President..: uhmm.. what happened again in New Orleans..? think about it and then tell me whether you still think that he's not racist! ..and if you still think he's not racist.. ask the people in New Orleans what they think!
Of course he's a bigot. He also is a fundamentalist christian and a clueless moron. Not the best example

There is racism everywhere. I think it is more so the overt talk and expression of racism (and, for me, sexism, and for lack of a better term "differentism" 0 i.e., not being the same as everyone else) here which many of us find shocking.
  #68  
Old 12.07.2006, 23:38
mark's Avatar
The Architect
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Zollikon, Switzerland
Posts: 2,995
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 418 Times in 115 Posts
mark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Are the swiss racist?

Quote:
Hey you all!!

You're a bunch of ignorant people!! Do you honestly think it's anything better in your home countries??? i tell you something: IT'S NOT!!!! I know it's just the same or even worse in my home country as it is over here in switzerland! ..and to all the americans here complaining about the swiss: you're the last people who should complain about racist people in switzerland!! look at what is happening in your own country..and look at your president!! the swiss are not more or less racist than people elsewhere. besides.. you're discriminating the swiss now, too! so.. that basically makes you all being racists, too!
Judy, I suggest you think a little before typing. So your home country is just as racist as Switzerland - so therefore everybody else's is as well? Wake up to yourself. I've got news for you - my home countries are most certainly not as racist as Switzerland. So discussing the experience makes us ignorant? And pulling the Swiss up on this makes us racist? I suggest you look up racist in the dictionary.
  #69  
Old 12.07.2006, 23:45
mark's Avatar
The Architect
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Zollikon, Switzerland
Posts: 2,995
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 418 Times in 115 Posts
mark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Are the swiss racist?

Quote:
yeah.. right! we're all angels! ..except the Swiss of course!

As for the US President..: uhmm.. what happened again in New Orleans..? think about it and then tell me whether you still think that he's not racist! ..and if you still think he's not racist.. ask the people in New Orleans what they think!
Did I miss something? Were people in this thread claiming that all Swiss were racists? I think you should go back and read the original post at the top of this thread - it discussed the view that people are very open about expressing racist views.

Please try to formulate your arguments with a little more substance, and either get back on topic or go elsewhere. Thank you.
  #70  
Old 12.07.2006, 23:53
Lynn's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Zurich Region
Posts: 1,071
Groaned at 10 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 1,296 Times in 465 Posts
Lynn has a reputation beyond reputeLynn has a reputation beyond reputeLynn has a reputation beyond reputeLynn has a reputation beyond reputeLynn has a reputation beyond reputeLynn has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Are the swiss racist?

Ok, I can agree with JudyK that Swissbashing can come across as discriminatory. However, I must hang my head in shame and admit that this is partially my home country. I was born here and have Swiss parentage...

It never ceases to amaze me how quick some are to defend the faults of Switzerland. Let's face it, we would all jump on the bandwagon and bash any other country for racism. Yes, there are racists Brits, Americans, Japanese, Australians, etc. etc. BUT in NONE of these countries would the GOVERNMENT OFFICE publicly demonstrate such OPEN racism. Individuals yes, sure, like I said, EVERYWHERE but I cannot think of any other country where the unemployment office, who after all is giving money to all these "foreigners" who come to sponge off our fabulous social services and taxpayer's money, would take steps to prevent a foreigner getting a decent salary and being taken off their books... I just don't understand.

I may not be the first to admit my swiss roots but I certainly defend Switzerland's good sides. As a nation, Switzerland must wake up and get with the programme. I too have many Swiss friends who were absolutely gob-smacked when I told them the story. Sadly, many were not suprised.

So the question is, JudyK, when you read some of the experiences posted, did part of you agree or even understand why such racist behaviour was displayed? Is that why you are so quick to defend
  #71  
Old 13.07.2006, 00:19
mark's Avatar
The Architect
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Zollikon, Switzerland
Posts: 2,995
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 418 Times in 115 Posts
mark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Are the swiss racist?

Quote:
You're a bunch of ignorant people!!
Just one other point I'd like to add. Never in the history of this forum's 4500+ postings have I ever had to remind someone that personal attacks or insults are not acceptable. You have insulted the people on this thread.

Consider this your first and final warning. This is not an unmoderated system, and such behaviour will not be tolerated. Find a polite way to say it, or don't say it at all. If you feel you have a right to speak in this way, please go and find an unmoderated mailing list and try your luck there. I can see from the way you write that English is obviously not your native language, so we'll give you a certain amount of slack for that, but resorting to calling us ignorant is not on.

To other readers on this thread - don't forget that you can use the little scales icon to add or subtract reputation for other posters if you agree or disagree with their post...
  #72  
Old 13.07.2006, 08:06
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Are the swiss racist?

Quote:
Ah.. here we go again! Look.. I know the same thing happens in other countries, too!! You can say anything you want.. I KNOW it happens in other countries, too! I've got friends from all over the world who have already experienced it... be it in the USA, GB, Italy, China, ....!
Besides.. not all Swiss people are like that. I've got some very good Swiss friends and they don't like what's going on in Switzerland. So, it's really very unfair to say that Swiss people in general are racist when in fact a lot of them aren't!
I can only speak from from my own experience here and that is the racism here is open and articulated. In many other nations its not.

In the UK for example, there is a great deal of fuss about asylum seekers and immigration per se, and I have heard many a rant in pubs about the "reasons" for the problems. This bigoted view is never widely endorsed, certainly not in polite company.

What is shocking here however is the openess with which it is expressed by professional people that you would expect to know better.

Its an interesting to question whether covert racism is better or worse. When discrimination is buried under a multitude of other "reasons" its more difficult to tackle than a statement in an apartment advert "No Italians".

If Schweiz wants to join EU that it will be encouraged if not forced to adopt the relevant legislation to address at least some of the problems...

dave
  #73  
Old 13.07.2006, 08:42
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 4
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
JudyK has no particular reputation at present
Re: Are the swiss racist?

You are right! I'm sorry for being rude. It's just that some of your comments really pissed me off and therefore I got a little hotheaded. I felt like I have to defend the Swiss people as some of my best friends are Swiss, too. I am not denying that some things really go wrong in Switzerland and that they should start improving their attitude towards foreigners. Most Swiss people I know are not at all like those people you all described though.
I'm apologizing for offending you all.
..and sorry for my bad English, mark!
have a nice day
  #74  
Old 13.07.2006, 09:01
Gav's Avatar
Gav Gav is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ireland
Posts: 966
Groaned at 15 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 468 Times in 187 Posts
Gav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Are the swiss racist?

Quote:
So are you saying we are ALL ignorant or just Americans? your post has no point to it whatsoever!! The main point here is the fact that the Swiss generally can openly racist whereas in other countries this is not tollerated even if there are racist people in that country, obviously we are not ignorant we know that every country has racism - the point here is that it is openly accepted here to the point where a black person may not get a job because the lady at the employment office warned the prospective employer that they were black - aree you saying this sort of practice is common in all countries? I think not
You only have to look at the figures for unemployment or likelihood of being incarcerated for black people in the USA to realise that despite the superficial 'anti-racist' posturing which is common in that land, racial discrimination is deeply entrenched in the society.

That's the point here. The Swiss are getting accused of being racist because people are open about voicing their misgivings regarding immigration into their country. Other countries have a raft of legislation and a politically correct culture yet treat minorities much worse in actual fact.


I don't believe that racism is any worse here than any other 'Western' country - just that people are less politically correct/PR savvy and hence don't keep their lips buttoned about it in public.

In Britain and Ireland, immigrants have been targetted for serious physical assault and even murdered yet you'll find few people who are even prepared to say they've got a problem with immigrants. Anyone who does voice a concern, is immediately tagged with the broad brushstroke of 'racist'. So, I guess that Britain and Ireland are 'less racist' then Switzerland because people are savvy enough to keep un-PC opinions to themselves? I don't think so.....


Gav
  #75  
Old 13.07.2006, 09:22
Lob's Avatar
Lob Lob is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: -
Posts: 7,795
Groaned at 42 Times in 37 Posts
Thanked 1,973 Times in 1,060 Posts
Lob has a reputation beyond reputeLob has a reputation beyond reputeLob has a reputation beyond reputeLob has a reputation beyond reputeLob has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Are the swiss racist?

I'd just like to point out that, in this widely cosmopolitan land, they're actually quite xenophobic in certain areas and certain media elements fuel the "dislike" of foreigners from certain demographic areas (Serbs etc. "racing" on the highway is an often-reported offence, for instance).

So if you're obviously "not Swiss-looking", certain people might not behave in what we consider normal and acceptible. Obviously skin colour and outward indicators of ethnicity means that some members of society may behave in certain ways towards you.

As Gav pointed out, statistically in the US, the black population are more likely to: live in run-down areas, become involved in crime, receive a substandard education, be murdered. That too needs addressing - but of course, the "200 years since slavery, white man owes us" attitude means that many people expect their salvation to be delivered on a silver platter with no effort from their side. Errrrrm....

And of course you have to summarise - not all Swissies are racist, not all black people are muggers, rapist, thieves - not all Italians are in the mob - and most importantly (for me) .... not all fierce-looking dogs will attack and maul you
  #76  
Old 13.07.2006, 09:29
Lob's Avatar
Lob Lob is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: -
Posts: 7,795
Groaned at 42 Times in 37 Posts
Thanked 1,973 Times in 1,060 Posts
Lob has a reputation beyond reputeLob has a reputation beyond reputeLob has a reputation beyond reputeLob has a reputation beyond reputeLob has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Are the swiss racist?

Oh and I'd like to stand up for our American Bush-hating friend JudyK - after all, she seems to show an outward dislike of the chap
  #77  
Old 13.07.2006, 22:00
Nickj's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Currently in Africa
Posts: 412
Groaned at 9 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 64 Times in 44 Posts
Nickj has made some interesting contributions
Re: Are the swiss racist?

The last country that I lived in before here (member of the EU) the police regularly conducted dawn raids on immigrant workers, if their papers weren’t in order they could, and often were deported within 48hours.

As for England and its multiculturalism, could it not be also viewed as a country of segregation, in London especially, all races and religions seem to have there “own” quarters, a Bangladeshi arriving in England will more than likely settle in the tower hamlets area of London , likewise the Indians, Greeks, Turks, Africans and Arabics , they all have there own parts of London where they feel at ” home “ is that the way to integration , although those living in the green stockbroker belts of Surrey wont object.
Also since 1999 many countries in Europe have seen right wing parties gaining political ground , strangely enough the UDC here in Switzerland has recently seen a dip in its popularity (economic upturns wins over the right wing voters )

I would like to think that the women at the employment office was not echoing the official govt policy and that it could equally happen in UK with a young 20yr something working in a similar position saying he’s only got a “paki” lined up or a muslim who may want Fridays off to pray so watch out ! these things happen and I’m sure if they are reported action will be taken. You can’t vet everyone in office and people do make gaffs contrary to official instructions.
  #78  
Old 13.07.2006, 23:07
Nickers's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3,693
Groaned at 41 Times in 35 Posts
Thanked 4,899 Times in 1,697 Posts
Nickers has a reputation beyond reputeNickers has a reputation beyond reputeNickers has a reputation beyond reputeNickers has a reputation beyond reputeNickers has a reputation beyond reputeNickers has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Are the swiss racist?

I think what people are getting at re the racism in Switzerland is the openness of the racism here more than the fact that the swiss are racist and no other country is, I know all countries have racism, some more than others, I probably know a fair few ignorant racists in the UK, even members of my family but even though I know they may have old fashioned racist views they know not to speak about it in public, especially to me!! this of course doesn't make their views right but it means they are beginning to understand that their racism views are unacceptible these days and this i believe will have a knock on effect to future generations, If children are growing up in an environment where racism is unaccpetable then surely this can only be good for the future - where as the Swiss culture of open racism isn't good for future generations who will just follow in their footsteps.

I actually once turned down a very good offer on my house in the UK to a buyer who offered me the asking price, was in no chain and a perfect buyer because he asked the question "are there any blacks living on this street'!! I was horrified, and promptly turned his offer down much to his annoyannce - I just wish when he came knocking at my door demanding to know why i had turned down his offer i had had the guts to tell him why, but being on my own i found him quite scary! I think I now sill have the guts to say what I think if I hear any such comments again.

I know that this racism tag doesn't apply to all Swiss - I just think it is unfortunate in this day and age that many people in Switzerland think that it is acceptable to be openly racist to people they may have just met - assuming that that person also has the same opinion as them and not even considering that the person they are making these comments to may find the comments offensive even if they are "in Swiss terms - White so you're Ok"

Nicky
  #79  
Old 19.07.2006, 08:51
mark's Avatar
The Architect
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Zollikon, Switzerland
Posts: 2,995
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 418 Times in 115 Posts
mark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Are the swiss racist?

Quote:
You only have to look at the figures for unemployment or likelihood of being incarcerated for black people in the USA to realise that despite the superficial 'anti-racist' posturing which is common in that land, racial discrimination is deeply entrenched in the society.
Gav, I don't think this tells the whole story. Sure - the US has some problems in this area but they are also trying to do a tremendous amount about the issue. There are blacks in senior positions in the US, and I'd be willing to bet that blacks in the US have a much easier time than they do here. Do you think a government agency would warn a potential employer that someone is black in the US? If so would there be a policy to have that person fired? Absolutely!

I think reducing the US's efforts in the last 40 years to reverse the injustices of racism to "superficial posturing" is really taking things a little far - sorry. I for one believe that we could do with a lot of that "superficial posturing" here.

So to directly highlight some of the differences for blacks between CH and the USA allow me to retell a story I heard from a friend of mine a couple of days ago. A friend of his was the CFO for a major industrial company, who have a rather large presense in Switzerland (located near Zurich). Now this is one of the largest companies in the world, so this was a pretty senior guy. He also happened to be black and decided that he preferred to ride the trams around Zurich. Apparently the verbal abuse he received from other passengers was constant. He left after a couple of years. This was a guy going to work in a suit, respectable and presentable. Unfortunately he knew enough Swiss-German to know what was being said to him, but it was usually racial slurs and telling him to get off the tram etc. Now I wonder if the same thing happened to the guy when he returned to the US? Somehow I doubt it.

Personally I think it is a great loss to Switzerland when they lose a talented and educated person who feels as though they can't be happy here because of the way they are treated by others.
  #80  
Old 19.07.2006, 10:09
Lynn's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Zurich Region
Posts: 1,071
Groaned at 10 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 1,296 Times in 465 Posts
Lynn has a reputation beyond reputeLynn has a reputation beyond reputeLynn has a reputation beyond reputeLynn has a reputation beyond reputeLynn has a reputation beyond reputeLynn has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Are the swiss racist?

OK first to Gav
Quote:
I don't believe that racism is any worse here than any other 'Western' country - just that people are less politically correct/PR savvy and hence don't keep their lips buttoned about it in public
I have to say I find this comment a little disappointing. The simple fact that people choose to keep their racist remarks to themselves actually indicates that they are well aware of the fact that their opinion is unacceptable. This indicates awareness in my opinion...

Nickj
Quote:
I would like to think that the women at the employment office was not echoing the official govt policy and that it could equally happen in UK with a young 20yr something working in a similar position saying he’s only got a “paki” lined up or a muslim who may want Fridays off to pray so watch out ! these things happen and I’m sure if they are reported action will be taken. You can’t vet everyone in office and people do make gaffs contrary to official instructions.


I've been so shocked by this that I've spoken to many of my clients. One woman had the same story to tell from a different RAV office

When I called the RAV boss I was simply informed that most employers wish to know and that is why all their staff inform potential employers of race/skin colour. So looks like this is very much from the TOP DOWN. Though I'm not really suprised...
Closed Thread




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:22.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0