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  #81  
Old 19.07.2006, 11:11
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Re: Are the swiss racist?

Ah, and here I thought the RAV were on the "side" of the unemployed.

I'm probably too idealistic but it irks me that they are in the position to actually "put this right" or at least point out that "this" is discrimination - but they choose to propagate this instead.

It would almost be an advantage to them to do this "education" as it might get the "hard to place black people" off the street.


Argh!
  #82  
Old 19.07.2006, 11:23
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Re: Are the swiss racist?

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It would almost be an advantage to them to do this "education" as it might get the "hard to place black people" off the street.
Then how could they bitch about foreigners/blacks being unemployed?

The sad part is that these people who are being filtered before they even get to the interviews will never know that they have been discriminated against and could never do anything about it - assuming that there even is a procedure/process to deal with racial discrimination in such situations, which there isn't.

I think the basic idea is that it is ok to employ blacks, just as long as they are out the back and customers don't see them - a bit like the headscarves on the checkout staff at the supermarket thing.

I once heard a group of Swiss at a ski resort bitching about how it was terrible that foreigners had jobs serving customers, and they should be kept out the back in the kitchen. They were referring to an Australian girl who was serving. Ok, her German wasn't the greatest, but she managed to do her job. It made my blood boil, but I realised there wasn't much point in chewing them out, they wouldn't listen to me anyway!
  #83  
Old 19.07.2006, 11:41
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Re: Are the swiss racist?

Mark - but the Swissies don't want to work in service - it's "below" their level.

And I think, if they were to get rid of all the blacks, foreigners, whatever - that they'd be shocked that crime and the "bad things that happen" don't simply disappear

RAV's new slogan: Helping Honkies in their Hour of Hardship?
  #84  
Old 19.07.2006, 12:14
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Re: Are the swiss racist?

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And I think, if they were to get rid of all the blacks, foreigners, whatever - that they'd be shocked that crime and the "bad things that happen" don't simply disappear
he he he. And watch the country go down the toilet in short order.
  #85  
Old 20.07.2006, 10:56
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Re: Are the swiss racist?

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I once heard a group of Swiss at a ski resort bitching about how it was terrible that foreigners had jobs serving customers, and they should be kept out the back in the kitchen. They were referring to an Australian girl who was serving. Ok, her German wasn't the greatest, but she managed to do her job. It made my blood boil, but I realised there wasn't much point in chewing them out, they wouldn't listen to me anyway!
Wow.

I'm still waiting on a possible job offer, so I've been checking in here from time to time.

I just find it remarkably different that some Swiss complain about Albanians, Serbs, and Aussies (!). From where I sit, that's an awfully fine-textured discriminatory attitude. I could complain about non-white and/or non-Americans, but then I'd lose most of my neighbors and colleagues.

I guess in some places, Karel the Polish plumber plays the same role as Manuel Labor does here. Sad.
  #86  
Old 29.07.2006, 15:41
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Re: Are the swiss racist?

On a lighter note, an Indian female friend of mine was sitting on the tram when an old woman asked her what colour her nipples were.

"Blue" she replied.

The woman took this as Gospel, and continued to stare at my friend for the duration of the 10 minute trip.

Nowt as Queer as Folk, eh?
  #87  
Old 30.07.2006, 15:57
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Re: Are the swiss racist?

I don't like giving cities 'reputations', it's all about the people. And the truth is, every city has it's racists. Zurich just sticks out a bit, because of the outside reputation of being the ''MoneyCity'', and therefore pulling many Immigrants.

They are most of the time 2 sorts of people;

- The ones that are born and raised at the place and they have a content life. Also, they aree well aware that their life is one envied by many, wich makes them feel good about themselves, and in turn about their country. Because of this, they will see anything and everyone foreign influenting their lives/city/country in a negative way as an immediate danger to their own future.

- The ones who basically never lived with any foreign influence in their lives, and are suddenly confronted with their unsatisfying new reality. Most of them stop seeing these immigrants as people, but as aliens or even underranked ''animals'', with very standard profiles. This may cause a form of ''fear wich binds them together with same-minded people, and that's how little groups like the KKK or Nazis get's started. Of both types, these folks are mostly beyond reasoning.

I am a Dutch/Trinidad&Tobago citizen with light brown skin. And I must say zurich has not been bothering me with any racist slurs(yet), as much as they used to in Holland. But I have seen that it is near impossible to get preffered when looking for a job, unless you have a CV that goes beyond impressive, or you're just sexy. I hope someday this wall can be broken...

Greetings!
  #88  
Old 30.07.2006, 20:28
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Re: Are the swiss racist?

Are the Swiss racist? Well, yes some of them. But at least they did not invent racism. Racism is rampant all over the world. I would not say that it is a Swiss problem, but one of humanity in general. Will it ever cease to exist? I doubt it.
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Old 31.07.2006, 23:17
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Re: Are the swiss racist?

racism in switzerland is petty compared to australia...
im pretty half caste ghetto pirate-ish myself an believe me growing up in australia was a complete and utter mission (although i am all the more tougher becuase of it)...
buuut in saying thatt there are still the oddies who are like whats that to cloured people...
  #90  
Old 01.08.2006, 17:48
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Re: Are the swiss racist?

I dont care if the swiss are racist or not. The whole point is that much more is happening in India and China....whos got time for the swiss and their preconceived notions ?
  #91  
Old 01.08.2006, 20:20
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Re: Are the swiss racist?

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If Schweiz wants to join EU that it will be encouraged if not forced to adopt the relevant legislation to address at least some of the problems...

dave
I must admit that I thought that the relevant legislation - a Racism act - was already in place. I remember shortly after I came here there was a vote in the Nationalrat on pulling a certain Herr Blochers parliamentary immunity so he could be done under it - it was at the height of the dormant accounts business (accounts of Holocaust victims being held by the banks here) and he'd come out with some cr@p about Jews having profited handsomely from the Holocaust

As for racism here it certainly seems alive and well amongst some Swissies - not all by any manner of means - but seems to be more openly articulated here than in other countries.
  #92  
Old 02.08.2006, 22:56
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Re: Are the swiss racist?

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racism in switzerland is petty compared to australia...
Really? Just as a matter of interest how long have you been in Switzerland to make such an observation? I'm sure all those people in Switzerland who have been denied jobs because of their race wouldn't call it petty.
  #93  
Old 02.08.2006, 23:00
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Re: Are the swiss racist?

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I must admit that I thought that the relevant legislation - a Racism act - was already in place. I remember shortly after I came here there was a vote in the Nationalrat on pulling a certain Herr Blochers parliamentary immunity so he could be done under it - it was at the height of the dormant accounts business (accounts of Holocaust victims being held by the banks here) and he'd come out with some cr@p about Jews having profited handsomely from the Holocaust
Well if it is illegal to discriminate on the grounds of race then please someone tell me the name and details of the relevant legislation. The case you are talking about might refer to some sort of anti-semetic legislation (which I know nothing about). Some countries also have laws about insighting racial hatred through public comments, but we are talking about lack of legislation preventing discrimination, i.e. government unemployment office calls employer to warn employer that prospective employee is black.
  #94  
Old 02.08.2006, 23:14
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Re: Are the swiss racist?

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Really? Just as a matter of interest how long have you been in Switzerland to make such an observation? I'm sure all those people in Switzerland who have been denied jobs because of their race wouldn't call it petty.
well considering i am swiss and have spent a while here its pretty easy to make these types of observations...its also easy to compare australia to switzerland with regards to race. ive had many person experience with race related bull so from experience its allot friendlier here than in the so called "multicultural" australia!!
  #95  
Old 02.08.2006, 23:30
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Re: Are the swiss racist?

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well considering i am swiss and have spent a while here its pretty easy to make these types of observations...its also easy to compare australia to switzerland with regards to race. ive had many person experience with race related bull so from experience its allot friendlier here than in the so called "multicultural" australia!!
yes I'm not denying you are Swiss, but please tell me, how long is it since you were back in Switzerland? Does being Swiss somehow give you some sort of extra qualification to speak on issues of racism? It seems many people with darker skin report a different view to yours, and many have lived in other countries including Australia.
  #96  
Old 03.08.2006, 00:41
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Re: Are the swiss racist?

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well considering i am swiss and have spent a while here its pretty easy to make these types of observations...its also easy to compare australia to switzerland with regards to race. ive had many person experience with race related bull so from experience its allot friendlier here than in the so called "multicultural" australia!!
Raynbo, I know what you are trying to say, but mark is more correct on this one. Australian racism is more redneck style (most evident in the ignorant and uneducated, aggressive but otherwise patchy and shallow). Swiss racism, where it exists, seems to be more entrenched and sophisticated (for want of a better word), but with great impact on the livelihood of those discriminated against. You have the little red book, you have so many rights that deter people from discriminating against you. Take that away and you might be singing a different tune.

As Mark pointed out, in Australia and other countries, anti-discrimination laws have sharp teeth. In Australia, if you were an HR Manager and you threw out all job applications with names ending in -ic, you could even face serious jail time, as well as your boss. But it happens here, believe me. Here, no such laws exist to my knowledge, and if they do they are rarely enforced.
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  #97  
Old 03.08.2006, 09:19
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Re: Are the swiss racist?

Raynbo; I can't remember the last time someone non-white referred to themselves as "cloured" <sic> - that's a throwback to the times that Malcolm X fought against!

There are different forms of discrimination; for instance:
  • the season ticket-holders of Celtic FC in Scotland have this week been written to and urged to not chant sectarian songs at football matches
  • Residents of Kent in England have a dislike of the "refugees" that've had themselves smuggled into England (albeit looking at their tax money paying for this and the increases in crime and anti-social behaviour)

I could go on but the underlying fact here is that stories such as the Arbeitsamt expressing regret that they're putting forwards a non-white candidate is frankly wrong.
  #98  
Old 07.08.2006, 02:03
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Re: Are the swiss racist?

Hello people! I found this interesting group discussion after googling "Racism in Switzerland". After reading a few of the posts, I felt like I just found my homeys on the net. I'm a Californian living here (CH) for almost 5 years now and this topic is not new to me. It's just lovely to find people you agree with. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Now I know there is hope for this place. I might as well add my 2 cents-

While I do find the Swiss racist, I don't (yet) think it's the same kind of racism that leads to ethnic cleansing. While they may try to economically starve you, the probablly won't try to kill you (yet). If you get a chance to talk to more regional locals, you'd probably find that they hold the other Swiss in the neighboring cantons as a nuissance. The racism here seems to me to be an ethnocentricity that is based xenophobia. Ironically, Switzerland is probably the most multicultural country on this side of the world, if you count the regions as cultures. I've even heard of Switzerland being discussed as a model of integration for the EU.

I think at the root of this racism we experience here is a Superiority/Inferiority complex that is based on a fragile cultural identity. They try very hard to maintain an appearance of cultural perfection, but the problem is that it is not very deep. The illusion is easily blown away by someone coming in from another reality (culture). I know it really pains them when I tell them that their beloved Roesti can be had at a New York diner for about a buck, or how a visiting friend referred to the cheese fondue as a glorified grilled cheese sandwich, or how a visiting friend from Shanghai, frustrated by lack of sufficient mobile bandwidth, felt like he was in a third world country. I think the biggest threat for them is that the foreigner may actually have some truth that might just rock this place.

If you are here and are coming from another culture. Rest assured that you already have one up on them. I think the worse thing you could possibly feel is regret for having your culture and then trying to dumb yourself down for them. One recommendation I can suggest to armor yourself against the stares, comments and tactics of the ignorati is to stay connected to sane people you know. The best recommendation I can think of was already posted earlier by Nanda - Be happier than them!

To quote Moe from the 3 Stooges: "Well... I ought to join a club and beat you over the head with it."

That being said, I hope you find some room in that POV for some compassion for them.
  #99  
Old 07.08.2006, 08:38
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Re: Are the swiss racist?

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They try very hard to maintain an appearance of cultural perfection, but the problem is that it is not very deep. The illusion is easily blown away by someone coming in from another reality (culture).
Thanks Phos, that post was very insightful and certainly introduced an interesting new angle to this discussion. I've often found that it pains them when I counter their "but it is like that in every country" with some example from another country / culture. Oddly enough the "it's like that everywhere" syndrome is not just limited to Swiss, I've often heard expats using it, sometimes even on this forum.

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After reading a few of the posts, I felt like I just found my homeys on the net
That's why this place was set up in the first place
  #100  
Old 12.08.2006, 18:58
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Re: Are the swiss racist?

I have found that my swiss friends are definatly racist to 'Jugos' as they put it, I can understand why having experienced the attitude between the two groups. Racism is not the first thing that comes to my mind when I encounter groups of the former Slavic nations, more a difference in the cultures and refusal to accept and adapt to Swiss culture, or to put it better, retaining their cultural individuality and slow to accpt change. Maybe in two generations this friction will no longer exist.

Racism in the UK is something else, and compared to what I have seen in some European places, the UK is one end of the extreme.
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