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Old 05.12.2013, 07:16
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Threaten by company on legal action against posting on EF my bad experience with them

Dear all,

I posted a thread and shared my experience with EF members on a bad services of a clean!ng company. few days ago i received a threatening email from their company (i guess was their boss) that they will take legal actions against my post , putting in Cc a lawyer who is his companies lawyer it seems, claiming my store is partially wrong.

this is not the case, the story is true, i have evidence of the things they broke with receipt, i have copy of emails i sent them and mentioned same bad experience and they aknowledged it in reply to my emails. i have as well my landlord who can say the story (those parts he saw and was involved) is true.

any1 has experience with this or know how it works here in Switzerland if some one takes legal action against such a post online? do they have a chance? or is there anything i should be worried about or prepare for?

Link to my post:

http://www.englishforum.ch/housing-g...g-company.html
Thanks
D.
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Old 05.12.2013, 08:33
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Re: Threaten by company on legal action against posting on EF my bad experience with

Hmmm... My thoughts are that if they're upset at you for posting the story on EF, I wouldn't then go about posting another thread here...

If you think you're in the right, get a lawyer of your own to look at the case. Spreading it around here would likely only hurt your case.
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Old 05.12.2013, 08:49
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Re: Threaten by company on legal action against posting on EF my bad experience with

So people can be bring to court for giving a feedback, opinion, story with a company just like that?

I like your feedback, no problem. You have a bad feedback: legal action!!

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Old 05.12.2013, 09:01
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Re: Threaten by company on legal action against posting on EF my bad experience with

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So people can be bring to court for giving a feedback, opinion, story with a company just like that?

I like your feedback, no problem. You have a bad feedback: legal action!!

That is what I kept repeating you in old threads:
There is a massive difference between "feedback", facts and defamation.

I haven't looked at the OP story, so I won't comment on it-
But certainly, people like the one posting about Post Finance "never working" and all that should be cautious with their actions...

Come on, you are more clever than that, why you make this situation a stereotype by saying that "it's bad feedback= legal action"???
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Old 05.12.2013, 09:09
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Re: Threaten by company on legal action against posting on EF my bad experience with

Please help me to understand defamation.

If I write a negative review of a hotel in Tripadvisor, that's acceptable, but if I write a negative review of a cleaning company on this forum (and there are some poor ones out there), it borderlines being illegal?

It doesn't make sense.
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Old 05.12.2013, 09:14
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Re: Threaten by company on legal action against posting on EF my bad experience with

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Please help me to understand defamation.

If I write a negative review of a hotel in Tripadvisor, that's acceptable, but if I write a negative review of a cleaning company on this forum (and there are some poor ones out there), it borderlines being illegal?

It doesn't make sense.
If an account is true and can be proven as such, it cannot be slander, libel or defamation.

That's the short version.

Edit: Suing someone abotu a TripAdvisor review is also harder for most people and businesses - and certainly expensive. Cross-jurisdiction (probably) to get identity and then again (probably) for pursuing the individual. This case is much easier as the company knows who and where the person is if they choose to initiate action.
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Old 05.12.2013, 09:16
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Re: Threaten by company on legal action against posting on EF my bad experience with

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Please help me to understand ...

defamation.

If I write a negative review of a hotel in Tripadvisor, that's acceptable, but if I write a negative review of a cleaning company on this forum (and there are some poor ones out there), it borderlines being illegal?

It doesn't make sense.
I will help you to understand-

I wrote:
There is a massive difference between "feedback", facts and defamation.

I haven't looked at the OP story, so I won't comment on it-


That is what you need to understand for now, ok?

So please don't ask me anything related to your example because you are trying to link the OP's story with my post-

I clearly said I haven't look at the OP story.

Now if you need to understand defamation:
Any intentional false communication, either written or spoken, that harms a person's reputation; decreases the respect, regard, or confidence in which a person is held; or induces disparaging, hostile, or disagreeable opinions or feelings against a person.
( quick google research).

Once again, I repeat:
I haven't looked at the OP story, so I won't comment on it-

Now to put back in context, I was quoting Nil who said (among other things

If I write a negative review of a hotel in Tripadvisor, that's acceptable, but if I write a negative review of a cleaning company on this forum (and there are some poor ones out there), it borderlines being illegal?
I like your feedback, no problem. You have a bad feedback: legal action!!



Is that clearer?
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Old 05.12.2013, 09:20
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Re: Threaten by company on legal action against posting on EF my bad experience with

Size matters.
Few will take legal action against tripadvisor or holidaycheck (esp. going all the way through obtaining a court-order in the US) - for any mid-sized company in Switzerland, that would be like trying to fight an angry gorilla with a ping-pong bat.
But going after an individual or a smaller outfit like this one here is doable.
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Old 05.12.2013, 09:51
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Re: Threaten by company on legal action against posting on EF my bad experience with

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Please help me to understand defamation.

If I write a negative review of a hotel in Tripadvisor, that's acceptable, but if I write a negative review of a cleaning company on this forum (and there are some poor ones out there), it borderlines being illegal?

It doesn't make sense.
Different formats, I think. TA is set up where you're going to review a specific company, and most people will just say things were disappointing, weren't good value for money, or they wouldn't go back. There are also rebuttal reviews of people that loved the business or service.

On EF, it's a more one-sided story. The complaints tend to have stronger words, like scam and fraud, which are more likely to draw attention and cause legal problems. There's rarely a rebuttal post that says hey, I LOVED these guys!

In OP's case, I think the initial complaint was not that bad, and the company is just trying scare tactics.
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Old 05.12.2013, 09:12
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Re: Threaten by company on legal action against posting on EF my bad experience with

You have two options.

1. Stand your ground
2. Back down

If your posting is factual and you can prove those facts then you are in a reasonable position.

As far as I know, there has been no case of a factual account of something unsatisfactory being taken to court recorded in Switzerland.

Also, an email from the company with cc to a lawyer is not action and if they were serious then you would have received a registered letter from the lawyer directly.

All-in-all, it depends on your appetite for a fight.
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Old 05.12.2013, 09:14
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Re: Threaten by company on legal action against posting on EF my bad experience with

If I were you and your story is true, then I'd write an email back to this guy kindly inviting him to go f**k himself.

I can't see how anything you did is illegal, otherwise wouldn't websites such as tripadvisor see a continuous stream of litigations? And there you can guarantee most of the stories are not true.

Anyhow, isn't EF supposedly anonymous? How could a post be used as evidence? Although I guess by starting this thread you've made it obvious to this guy who you are!
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Old 05.12.2013, 09:21
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Re: Threaten by company on legal action against posting on EF my bad experience with

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1)If I were you and your story is true, then I'd write an email back to this guy kindly inviting him to go f**k himself.

2) I can't see how anything you did is illegal, otherwise wouldn't websites such as tripadvisor see a continuous stream of litigations? And there you can guarantee most of the stories are not true.

3)Anyhow, isn't EF supposedly anonymous? How could a post be used as evidence? Although I guess by starting this thread you've made it obvious to this guy who you are!
LOL-

1) Good advice. OP do you want to follow that clever advice and add legal offenses to your situation?

2) I haven't looked at it- But It could be defamation, among other legal things. That's why the OP should seek professional help, not "low-level English Forum" which hunt.

3) lol- Were you born yesterday?
No seriously, do some research for your own good-

And don't bother groaning, you'd better take this post as a wake up call and a motivation to do some further research because your ignorance could land you in deep troubles.
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Old 05.12.2013, 09:37
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Re: Threaten by company on legal action against posting on EF my bad experience with

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LOL-

1) Good advice. OP do you want to follow that clever advice and add legal offenses to your situation?

2) I haven't looked at it- But It could be defamation, among other legal things. That's why the OP should seek professional help, not "low-level English Forum" which hunt.

3) lol- Were you born yesterday?
No seriously, do some research for your own good-

And don't bother groaning, you'd better take this post as a wake up call and a motivation to do some further research because your ignorance could land you in deep troubles.
Ok, Columbo, let's make up an example. I'm unhappy with a cleaning company, let's call them, I don't know, gunstigcleaners.ch. Now I make up a new profile, on a public computer in an internet cafe, log into EF with this new profile and start telling the world what a bunch of assholes this company employs. Clear cut deformation. Now how on earth would a) they be able to prove who wrote such slander and b) use a single post on an internet forum by an unknown user as permissible evidence in court.

Given the tone of your post, and the ginormous head that you obviously have, I've a good mind to do the above just to prove you wrong.
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Old 05.12.2013, 09:22
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Re: Threaten by company on legal action against posting on EF my bad experience with

I've looked at the posted complaint and it's clear, to the point, does not have personal attacks on any person and seems to state facts.

Flat cleaned, not met standard, damaged certain things, wanted more money for 1 window, cleaners smoked all the time you were there observing the work.

I guess one lesson for readers is if something appears to be too good to be true, it is. And their prices compared to competitors are low but they undoubtedly either don't get the right information beforehand or come with a plan to do "upselling" when you're in a corner.

I've had a 4.5 place cleaned to a high standard in one day so how a 2.5 place can't be cleaned adequately in a day surprises me.
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Old 05.12.2013, 09:29
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Re: Threaten by company on legal action against posting on EF my bad experience with

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I've looked at the posted complaint and it's clear, to the point, does not have personal attacks on any person and seems to state facts.

Flat cleaned, not met standard, damaged certain things, wanted more money for 1 window, cleaners smoked all the time you were there observing the work.

I guess one lesson for readers is if something appears to be too good to be true, it is. And their prices compared to competitors are low but they undoubtedly either don't get the right information beforehand or come with a plan to do "upselling" when you're in a corner.

I've had a 4.5 place cleaned to a high standard in one day so how a 2.5 place can't be cleaned adequately in a day surprises me.
Unfortunately, you don't know if the "facts" are not just a story-

Additionally, if A and B engage into legal actions, one of the 2 parties will have the burden of proof- So it could be that the alleged facts can be not such a strong asset after all.

For example, if B can prove that B did not damage any lamp, then A would still be doing defamation...

I'd repeat myself again, the OP should seek professional help and proceed with caution, especially before taking any EF "wonderful" suggestions.
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Old 05.12.2013, 09:39
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Re: Threaten by company on legal action against posting on EF my bad experience with

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Please help me to understand defamation.

If I write a negative review of a hotel in Tripadvisor, that's acceptable, but if I write a negative review of a cleaning company on this forum (and there are some poor ones out there), it borderlines being illegal?

It doesn't make sense.
Quote:
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So people can be bring to court for giving a feedback, opinion, story with a company just like that?

I like your feedback, no problem. You have a bad feedback: legal action!!

Quote:
View Post


Now to put back in context, I was quoting Nil who said (among other things

If I write a negative review of a hotel in Tripadvisor, that's acceptable, but if I write a negative review of a cleaning company on this forum (and there are some poor ones out there), it borderlines being illegal?
I like your feedback, no problem. You have a bad feedback: legal action!!



Is that clearer?
Would you mind to keep the quotes to those who made them?
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Old 05.12.2013, 10:08
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Re: Threaten by company on legal action against posting on EF my bad experience with

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If I were you and your story is true, then I'd write an email back to this guy kindly inviting him to go f**k himself.
The usual legally accepted way of doing this is to refer them to the reply given in Arkell vs. Pressdram. That should confuse a Swiss company nicely
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Old 05.12.2013, 11:17
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Re: Threaten by company on legal action against posting on EF my bad experience with

Sadly this is the MO of many companies, they offer a crap service and when people complain they threaten to sue.

I had a similar issue in the past with a restaurant review " remove the review or we will sue" it was bluff and nothing happened.

If your facts are in order and all is truthful and documented AND you have an understanding of the law I would give them anArkell and Pressdram response but thats me.
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Old 05.12.2013, 11:57
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Re: Threaten by company on legal action against posting on EF my bad experience with

Hi Dariush,

The law says it is not defamation as long as it is true, or as long as what your are saying can be perceived as the truth from your point of view.

But since they got a lawyer involved, even if they are just trying to scare you, you just get legal insurance if you dont have it, and/or check if your Gemeinde has a free lawyer advice.

if you can speak german, here is the law, art. 173 and 176
http://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifie...0000/311.0.pdf

I tried looking at your post but it looks like it's been deleted...
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Old 07.12.2013, 04:58
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Re: Threaten by company on legal action against posting on EF my bad experience with

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Hi Dariush,

The law says it is not defamation as long as it is true, or as long as what your are saying can be perceived as the truth from your point of view.

But since they got a lawyer involved, even if they are just trying to scare you, you just get legal insurance if you dont have it, and/or check if your Gemeinde has a free lawyer advice.

if you can speak german, here is the law, art. 173 and 176
http://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifie...0000/311.0.pdf

I tried looking at your post but it looks like it's been deleted...


Thanks for the link.
1. what i wrote is all true and have prove for it.
2. i have written the company an email complaining of the incident with same details, and they acknowledged it.
3. my Landlord was involved in the case , he can be a witness to many part of the story.
4. i have pictures of damages they made. can be verified by the shop who fixed/replaced them.
5.they increased the price in a way i was taken hostage! was like a Yes or Yes situation. that is fraud!


now, the only Q is, if all of these above, makes sense to the judge. to me it makes full sense and i will fight for it if it goes official.
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