Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Complaints corner
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 08.02.2014, 14:19
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 1,197
Groaned at 12 Times in 8 Posts
Thanked 1,781 Times in 704 Posts
ceppych has a reputation beyond reputeceppych has a reputation beyond reputeceppych has a reputation beyond reputeceppych has a reputation beyond reputeceppych has a reputation beyond reputeceppych has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Treatment of New Posters

Quote:
View Post
It's like a game of Chinese whispers.
Rather like - Send reinforcements we're going to advance.
It turned into - Send three and fourpence we're going to a dance.
Something I remember from the 40's.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank ceppych for this useful post:
  #62  
Old 08.02.2014, 14:29
Ace1's Avatar
A singular modality
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Morgins
Posts: 6,506
Groaned at 191 Times in 140 Posts
Thanked 10,178 Times in 4,517 Posts
Ace1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Treatment of New Posters

Quote:
View Post
And sometimes questions are genuine, even if they seem obvious.... I've not been here long and literally cannot find a bath/shower sponge anywhere (and nor can friends in Zurich)... now, I probably would't actually post a question on here about it, but it doesn't mean that I'm stupid because I cannot locate the store I need.
But if you did post it, and it was worded like that, you almost cetainly wouldn't get the sort of replies the bath towel question got. You've provided enough information to establish exactly what you're wanting and why you haven't been able to find it.

There is a fine line to be trodden here, and I think in general we don't step too far over it, but there are indeed lots of people who post stupid question deliberately just to provoke arguments, and they're usually best if nipped in the bud, as it were. Anyone who does the toys-out-of-the-pram act would probably fall into the 'troll' category anyway.

Yes, sometimes it's taken too far, but there's nearly always an equal number of posts supporting the newbie as there are criticising, so an open-minded person, who's taken the time to read the forum before posting, should not really be put off too much.

I'd encourage folks to report any posts that they feel are too far over the line, and the mods will step in if they feel it necessary.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Ace1 for this useful post:
  #63  
Old 08.02.2014, 14:55
Nil's Avatar
Nil Nil is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Basel
Posts: 10,408
Groaned at 442 Times in 346 Posts
Thanked 16,045 Times in 6,322 Posts
Nil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Treatment of New Posters

I found the towel thread very funny.

Last summer an American came to me on the street and yelled: where's the hotel? I looked at him and walked away.

No hi, no please, no manners? No answer. If you ask a stupid question, you'll get a stupid answer.

Where can I buy towels? In a shop sounds as good answer as the question.

Hi, can someone please tell me the best place to buy towels? Globus, ikea, etc.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Nil for this useful post:
  #64  
Old 08.02.2014, 14:55
Ace1's Avatar
A singular modality
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Morgins
Posts: 6,506
Groaned at 191 Times in 140 Posts
Thanked 10,178 Times in 4,517 Posts
Ace1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Treatment of New Posters

Quote:
View Post
Quote:
View Post
So how do you answer a question from Geneva, "Where can I buy bath towels?" help [Where to buy Bath Towels - GE]
Maybe this person wanted to know where to go to get good quality towels but at a good price as they can get pretty pricey.
Maybe, but if that's what they wanted why didn't they say so? I don't see it as the role of any forum to tease out a real set of requirements from such a vague question. Especially given that their next reply to the bleedin' obvious answer ("Shops!") simply complained about the lack of detail in the answer, rather than supplying some more detail of the question, which was quite obvious needed.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Ace1 for this useful post:
  #65  
Old 08.02.2014, 15:00
Aubrey's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Kissnight
Posts: 206
Groaned at 21 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 164 Times in 98 Posts
Aubrey has earned some respectAubrey has earned some respect
Re: The Treatment of New Posters

Quote:
View Post
Maybe, but if that's what they wanted why didn't they say so? I don't see it as the role of any forum to tease out a real set of requirements from such a vague question. Especially given that their next reply to the bleedin' obvious answer ("Shops!") simply complained about the lack of detail in the answer, rather than supplying some more detail of the question, which was quite obvious needed.
You are of course, wrong. The unfortunate was staying at a hotel with no reception, no staff and ye gods, no guests. His detailed request was a cry for help.

Last edited by Aubrey; 08.02.2014 at 15:01. Reason: Big finger(s).
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 08.02.2014, 15:11
Nerya's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Y'a pas l'feu au lac!
Posts: 98
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 74 Times in 45 Posts
Nerya is considered knowledgeableNerya is considered knowledgeableNerya is considered knowledgeable
Re: The Treatment of New Posters

Quote:
View Post
If a newbie is polite and gracious in their first post, they will receive kind remarks in return. It goes both ways, Connor MacLeod.
That's my idea of the EF as well, as a newbie.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Nerya for this useful post:
  #67  
Old 08.02.2014, 15:29
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,023
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,716 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Treatment of New Posters

Quote:
View Post
Well I'm new on this site really, and it does have the sense of a community that's next to impossible to get into, but I have received some help when I have asked

But, correct me if I'm wrong but there's no obligation to reply to a post, right? So no one has to keep typing things out over and over.

And sometimes questions are genuine, even if they seem obvious.... I've not been here long and literally cannot find a bath/shower sponge anywhere (and nor can friends in Zurich)... now, I probably would't actually post a question on here about it, but it doesn't mean that I'm stupid because I cannot locate the store I need.
It in fact is very easy to get into this "community" . Stores at times can be difficult to locate even inside your own language area as names of products and names of services change.
You get some "Wienerli" in Zürich ? Nice but in Wien you better ask for "Frankfurter"

Here
http://www.hallo-schweiz.ch/CH_17_Sprache2.htm
you can find a nice list of German words
-
but
- have you ever seen a children-garden in Britain or the USA ?
- ever wished somebody who sneezed "good health" ?
- ever wished somebody to start eating a good one (English for "änGuäte")
- realized that English speakers who say "I will table this proposal"
mean different things ?
- ask somebody in the USA about the Mews behind the house !
- the Motorway in Britain of course is THE major highway. But ask somebody in Texas what a "motorway" is


WHAT does all this mean in practical life ? It means that everything changes from city to city, area to area. So that some small help may be quite valuable

Last edited by Wollishofener; 08.02.2014 at 15:42.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Wollishofener for this useful post:
  #68  
Old 08.02.2014, 16:10
3Wishes's Avatar
Moderately Amused
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bern area
Posts: 7,576
Groaned at 51 Times in 47 Posts
Thanked 11,490 Times in 5,392 Posts
3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Treatment of New Posters

I find the tone of replies tends to go off a few things:

- has the newbie posted any intro or just started with a vague question
- the first reply (helpful or snarky) sets the stage for future replies
- OP's reaction to the early replies - From what I've observed successful newbies introduce themselves just a bit, and when they encounter sarcasm they come back with humor.

Now back to the OP of this thread and similar ones...EF is what we as a community make it. If you think others are being mean and unhelpful you can be the friendly, helpful person. You will do far more good by counter-posting the negatives than you will by walking away and saying nothing. When you ignore you're basically agreeing the status-quo is okay.

I'm no saint. I have curtly told people to use search and I have piled on the sarcasm bandwagon many times. I am trying to do better.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank 3Wishes for this useful post:
  #69  
Old 08.02.2014, 17:06
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 24
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 20 Times in 11 Posts
jjmummy has no particular reputation at present
Re: The Treatment of New Posters

I have to agree with the OP here - looking up "fireworks" I came across this post Early fireworks for the kiddos on NYE?
and I have to say, I thought the response (apart from the "overreaction" one and the poster who gave a great answer) was disgraceful. It does make you think twice about offering advice or recommendations in case you are hung out to dry.
However I have advertised a car here and got some great advice which made me drop price etc, and I have a sale now. So there is some great knowledge out there - just hope people can share it without ego getting in the way!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank jjmummy for this useful post:
  #70  
Old 08.02.2014, 17:22
cannut's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: canada
Posts: 6,577
Groaned at 179 Times in 139 Posts
Thanked 5,758 Times in 3,156 Posts
cannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Treatment of New Posters

I blame the Dammed "Betreibungsamt" And Zurich
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank cannut for this useful post:
  #71  
Old 08.02.2014, 17:47
11HoursInTheTinPan's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 504
Groaned at 19 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 892 Times in 354 Posts
11HoursInTheTinPan has a reputation beyond repute11HoursInTheTinPan has a reputation beyond repute11HoursInTheTinPan has a reputation beyond repute11HoursInTheTinPan has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Treatment of New Posters

Quote:
View Post
This has been brought up 2 or 3 times a year for as long as I have been a member here and it never changes. What you say about it putting new members off is true, I've said it before, I've met countless people in real life who, when I mention EF, say things like "I posted once but never again, it's such a nasty place!"

What's to be done about it? I don't think anything can be done, it seems to part of the fabric of this place. But thanks for reminding us.... maybe we need a reminder every week, it might make a small difference.
I don't agree with that.

I see several issues with the layout of the forums which basically encourages newbie-bashing. I think some simple changes could improve the situation drastically:
  1. Create a separate forum "Where can I find..." and keep the jokers out of there.
  2. For the love of god, require newbies to reach 10 posts (or other arbitrary limit) before being allowed to post to the complaints corner.
  3. Require every new member to post in the "Introductions" section first to avoid one-question/one-complaint/one-topic posters.
  4. The "Daily life" sub-forum in the "Living in Switzerland" category is the biggest one and has rather "loungy" feel to it. The name of it is an absolute catch-all term and anybody who is slightly unsure where to post something will open a thread here because of it's size, the position in the list of the forums and its name. This will obviously piss off anybody who is "hanging out" there if the question is very vague or has been answered a gazillion times already.
    Don't let newbies post to "Daily life" and / or rename it. Alternatively make people stay on topic. It's the EFs "miscellaneous" at the moment. Just because it happened to / interests you in Switzerland does not make it "Daily life".
As the Swedish apparently like their forums managed as they like their fish (zombie-style), I don't expect anything of this to happen.
__________________
"Sometimes it's hard to tell the living from the dead" -- Edgar Winter
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank 11HoursInTheTinPan for this useful post:
  #72  
Old 08.02.2014, 17:57
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 1,981
Groaned at 68 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 5,049 Times in 1,795 Posts
crazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Treatment of New Posters

Quote:
View Post
In fact, if I walked up to a group in, say, Paddy Reilly's and did that, one or two would be taken aback, one might ask a question to try to work out what I was waffling on about and someone else would most probably say "WTF? Who are you?" Not forgetting those in the group that would probably turn their backs and carry on with their pint.
there are exactly zero people on the EF who would ever say directly to someone half of the things they post as responses to first-time posters around here.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank crazygringo for this useful post:
  #73  
Old 08.02.2014, 17:57
olygirl's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: d' Innerschwiiz
Posts: 5,367
Groaned at 235 Times in 156 Posts
Thanked 11,778 Times in 3,585 Posts
olygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Treatment of New Posters

Quote:
View Post
I have to agree with the OP here - looking up "fireworks" I came across this post Early fireworks for the kiddos on NYE?
and I have to say, I thought the response (apart from the "overreaction" one and the poster who gave a great answer) was disgraceful. It does make you think twice about offering advice or recommendations in case you are hung out to dry.
Definite over-reaction from one poster on that thread. Kuddos to those who tried to balance it out.
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 08.02.2014, 18:07
Wallabies's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Winterthur
Posts: 3,221
Groaned at 318 Times in 183 Posts
Thanked 3,314 Times in 1,577 Posts
Wallabies has a reputation beyond reputeWallabies has a reputation beyond reputeWallabies has a reputation beyond reputeWallabies has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Treatment of New Posters

Quote:
View Post
there are exactly zero people on the EF who would ever say directly to someone half of the things they post as responses to first-time posters around here.
Thats where you are wrong i am more than happy to give someone a direct answer
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 08.02.2014, 18:16
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 1,981
Groaned at 68 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 5,049 Times in 1,795 Posts
crazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Treatment of New Posters

Quote:
View Post
Thats where you are wrong i am more than happy to give someone a direct answer
actually, in your case this would not surprise me.
Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old 08.02.2014, 19:05
Connor MacLeod's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: here
Posts: 779
Groaned at 94 Times in 63 Posts
Thanked 2,485 Times in 821 Posts
Connor MacLeod has a reputation beyond reputeConnor MacLeod has a reputation beyond reputeConnor MacLeod has a reputation beyond reputeConnor MacLeod has a reputation beyond reputeConnor MacLeod has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Treatment of New Posters

Kind of the point I was trying to make in the op, it is the forum that suffers.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Connor MacLeod for this useful post:
  #77  
Old 08.02.2014, 19:33
adrianlondon's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 9,200
Groaned at 193 Times in 176 Posts
Thanked 25,643 Times in 6,892 Posts
adrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Treatment of New Posters

Quote:
View Post
She could have been a head hunter, someone in insurance or tax etc etc, someone that can give info back into the forum.
Yeah, those are the sorts of people who don't know how to find a shop selling towels without googling, searching for a website, registering, getting a password, logging in, finding a sub-forum, and typing a stupid question.

EF needs more like those. I can imagine someone not knowing how to find towels being a great asset in all sorts of other not-needing-a-brain questions that we all need answers to.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank adrianlondon for this useful post:
  #78  
Old 08.02.2014, 19:45
Peg A's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 4,435
Groaned at 163 Times in 128 Posts
Thanked 5,428 Times in 2,510 Posts
Peg A has a reputation beyond reputePeg A has a reputation beyond reputePeg A has a reputation beyond reputePeg A has a reputation beyond reputePeg A has a reputation beyond reputePeg A has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Treatment of New Posters

I'm trying to think of the first 6 months or so (year and more really) that I was here, and what it was like getting around on my own. Even though we were living with hubby's mom when I got here, and there were things I didn't have to figure out then, there were other things I was clueless about how to find / where to obtain.

Even now, nearly 6 years on, there are things I am not sure of - but thankfully, I do know enough to find the relevant area usually, and am confident enough of my situational German (family / household shopping related things mostly) to seek out the nearest employee and ask.

Even though there are THREE Coop locations within a decent walk from my apartment, I wouldn't have known that I could buy towels at Coop - same goes for Migros. Manor I would have known, but I wouldn't have had the first idea how to get there (on my own) because m-i-l always drives there.

Heck, for the "longest" time, I was petrified of going anywhere on my own, because my inquiries of where something was while indicating I would head out on my own were faced with "but what if you get lost?" Indeed, when I couldn't speak German and my only interactions were with hubby and his mother, so I had no idea how many people speak English, so I really didn't know what I would do if I got lost if I headed out on my own to look for towels in some obscure reference to a "shop".


Snarky people exist - but so do nice people. Alas, it seems that many of the nicer people have a lot less time to post (or become less enthused to do so over time) than the snarky ones. Here's to hoping that some of the snarky ones get a little "better" for at least a little while, and some of the nice ones become a bit more active for at least a little while.
__________________
The Joys of Opticianry
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Peg A for this useful post:
  #79  
Old 08.02.2014, 19:52
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 1,981
Groaned at 68 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 5,049 Times in 1,795 Posts
crazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Treatment of New Posters

Quote:
View Post
Yeah, those are the sorts of people who don't know how to find a shop selling towels without googling, searching for a website, registering, getting a password, logging in, finding a sub-forum, and typing a stupid question.

EF needs more like those. I can imagine someone not knowing how to find towels being a great asset in all sorts of other not-needing-a-brain questions that we all need answers to.
just for kicks, I typed "where to buy a towel in Zürich" into google. not a single item on the first 3 pages of the search offered even a clue, other than a link to an EF thread and a link to Costco. of course, typing "wo gibt es badetücher in Zürich" immediately offers up Coop. so, at least according to google, asking where to find a towel in Zürich is a stupid question in German, but in English is somewhat less intuitive.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank crazygringo for this useful post:
  #80  
Old 08.02.2014, 19:59
Connor MacLeod's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: here
Posts: 779
Groaned at 94 Times in 63 Posts
Thanked 2,485 Times in 821 Posts
Connor MacLeod has a reputation beyond reputeConnor MacLeod has a reputation beyond reputeConnor MacLeod has a reputation beyond reputeConnor MacLeod has a reputation beyond reputeConnor MacLeod has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Treatment of New Posters

Quote:
View Post
Yeah, those are the sorts of people who don't know how to find a shop selling towels without googling, searching for a website, registering, getting a password, logging in, finding a sub-forum, and typing a stupid question.

EF needs more like those. I can imagine someone not knowing how to find towels being a great asset in all sorts of other not-needing-a-brain questions that we all need answers to.
I guess we will never know, however remember that moving to a new country, town etc can be very intimidating.
Do you remember when you first moved here, no friends, no contacts etc.

Maybe it was easy for you but for others in might not have been so easy, regardless of their profession.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Connor MacLeod for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
PETA (People for the ethical treatment of animals) ... "aren't" Desert Rat International affairs/politics 0 27.02.2013 19:43
Complain to the SBB about the posters Ittigen Complaints corner 244 27.09.2011 19:22
Foreigners not the target of the latest SVP posters panda Swiss politics/news 109 12.05.2011 17:18


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 19:58.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0