Ahhh. Some newbs really do learn fast. Warms my heart!

Come on, the bath towel question did open up an amusing owl piccie thread.

The op got her/his answer at the beginning, and then the funny answers arrived. I even mentioned rolling in the grass after a dip in the lake.

It was all in fun, and if the OP doesn't have a sense of humour and saw the irony and stupidity of the question. Then they are too thin skinned to survive on any Forum not just this one.

I am also a member of other Forums/Fora and they are hardcore nasty to the newbies, you are not really accepted until you can live up to sarcasm and laugh along with the longtime members.

And laughing at yourself also stands you in good stead.

A jewel of a quality.

And how many years does it take to be considered a long-term member in Switzerland generally?

It's not the number of years, but the level of pedantry and skill in the art of passive aggressive replies.

I thought we had voted not to allow any new members!

Ride the wave, gents/ladies.

In fact why should newbies be treated so soft if they are smart enough to figure put how to move countries how much harder is it to formulate a sensible question on an internet forum.

Ask a stupid poorly formed question expect answers reflecting the quality of the question! Regardless of time on a forum

The only difference between how Switzerland and EF treat their newbies is that there are no limitations to the amount of newbies allowed on EF.

haha, see even you can be funny sometimes!


Now its an interesting debate though: should you consider anyone new as "innocent, nice, poor person in need of help", or should you expect a minimum from them (minimum of efforts, politeness, open mindedness...)?

Being accessible does not means that one needs to spread negative things without consequences. Example? people insulting businesses for whatever fallacious reasons, etc...

Anyway, let's face it: it won't change.

Therefore, maybe a workaround to this "problem" (I don't have a problem with that but some do, apparently):

Why not submitting the post by new people only to moderators first?
Let's say for 10 post max- That way they can introduce them to the concept of "contribution", "research", etc...?
If someone asks for "brown sugar" (which is rather funny but lazy) then one can tell them about the search function.
If someone complains of having being stolen by their boss because their social contribution have increased, then one can explain them that it seems to be the rule, and that they could refrain from drama- (irritating others and not helping the OP)
If someone wants to kill a cow privately, then one can tell them that it's not in the culture and such a thing might bring a lot of negative feedback.

What about it`?

Oh common, not the only one, Switzerland is much nicer..
On the other hand, considering that most of the newbies don't speak the local language...they rarely dare to open their mouth, let alone ask stupid questions..."Will I be able to live on a 200 000 salary and annual bonuses?"

Indeed. Let us introduce quotas / contingents etc and join the merry flow.

I think the issue has points on both sides so I bring to you, in no particular order:


Should our members answer the questions of the chronically lazy?

Referring Members to Google

No such thing as Free Beer

Treatment of "Duplicate" questions

The "helpfulness" of this forum

Is EF too cliquey?

How people behave towards each other on this forum

New forum member requirements? ( Rant about Newbies )

What are the posting rules for newbies?

The EF has turned into an online market place

English Forum - Newbie complaint

English Forum

Hostility on the forums

Mean comments on EF

I think both sides have points. The solution is simple:

1. New posters. Think before you post and really consider search before you post. There are tags as well as a search function so please try to use those functions.

2. Existing posters. Think before you post and think how it feels for the Newbie. No matter how silly the question might seem, you have the choice to not type and submit a reply.

Everyone needs to consider what their Mum or grandmother might think of what they post. Would they be proud of your lack of determination to search or willingness to wade into someone from behind your computer screen?

Pay It Forward, people

As an inverse proportion to the vote, area by area... Then we have strict limits (2 newbies a month) from Ticino, moderate in German cantons and generous in French (e.g. 100 in Geneva). Then we also solve the too much Swiss German on EF problem too.

I disagree

One can not call a "solution" for something that obviously does not works.
In fact you are illustrating that yourself: There are many topics and discussions about it, and yet nothing is changing. Again, it's not a problem for me, but apparently, as per this thread, it's a morale problem.

In particular:
1) Often, new posters don't do that. Also, technically, if you write this advice, a new poster can't read it unless they've searched...

2) Well, lot of people do reply. Also, inaction (the workaround you suggested) does not contribute to preventing crap being posted and the quality of information to be improved because "no one say anything". In other terms, it would become the norm to say crap and get away with it.

Additionally, I frankly could not care less what "mum" or "grandmother" could think about what I post. That's where your "solutions" are not appropriate and not addressing the problem:

You fail to take into account that everyone's different and have different expectations.

That is why, I think, a relevant workaround, could be that thing about moderators to have a mini-review of first topics.

I see it could be a win-win for all:
Newbies won't be immediately told off for posting crap and get some kind of guidance.
Not newbies will see less of those irritating craps
Quality of information could improve-

Less people being morally distressed, extremely frustrated and depressed for being told off that insulting a company because they got stung after not respecting a contract they signed was absolutely stup... erm inappropriate. Erm Gran, are you still reading?

The problem is, is, that is a lot of work. And, in effect, it is censorship. As far as I knew the MODS time was basically volunteer work. And rejecting spammers, dealing with alerts on posts of insulting manner, editing title threads, tackling problems of the system and so on is a lot as it is. I don't know how many new members there are each day, but if limitless people give any comments, like I do, do you expect the Mods to read thru all of that?


I understand you idea, but it is not practical unless you want to turn this in a pay site.

I know it has practical aspects, but it could be a workaround.
Also its limited, we're talking about only the first x posts of a new person, like 5-10 maybe.
And it can have a delay before being "published".

PS: it's not censorship, if you only offer guidance- Call it some "educative filtering".
Or think at what is done in every day life, and is not considered as "censorship":
Filtering who comes inside the night club based on their look-
Nobody seems to have a problem with that, and they don't call it "censorship".

Here, they could still "come in" and contribute, but after having being told by a moderator (someone supposed to be neutral) that x or y is more appropriate, or that z can be found using search.

Someone like LostinBroad?

I think everybody has a problem with that, but we just accept it. Nightclubs do this so they have certain kinds of people inside, and that has only to do with money and profits.


Again, if you want to turn the EF into a site based on profits, then you can hire a few bouncers to be selective of the users that come inside. Then the ones they do let in, will believe they have far more of a right to be aggressive as they are paying customers.


And in the end, if people have to pay for the EF, the contributions people will make will dwindle. I have been put off in the past from the EF with over aggressive MODS, who did not want to believe some of what I wrote was meant to be helpful, or the like. And I have stopped using it for awhile.


I think if I was new, and had that kind of reaction, I would plain stop using it all together.

What do you mean "if"?