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  #161  
Old 10.02.2014, 14:53
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Re: The Treatment of New Posters

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What about if new users were only allowed to add to threads in their first 7 days?

It would mean that they have at least tried to find the answer on the site.
But searching/finding" is not the root cause of the problem and critics.
See the OP, it's often people being told off when they are saying something negative.

Like the one willing to slaughter a cow in their back gardens, the one insulting the company who did their work properly and as agreed, the one not respecting contract and yet coming here to spread defamation, etc...
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  #162  
Old 10.02.2014, 15:00
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Re: The Treatment of New Posters

I had to bite my poor lip several times when a new poster started a thread about how long the Hallenbad City pool was and then started disputing the answers / links he got from amazingly tolerant posters.
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  #163  
Old 10.02.2014, 15:04
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Re: The Treatment of New Posters

You can express vile racist homophobic misogynistic stuff on EF but its tolerated as long as its expressed politely, you end your sentence with a and you don't make ad hominem attacks or slag off dodgy companies.
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  #164  
Old 10.02.2014, 15:08
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Re: The Treatment of New Posters

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I've also noticed this "problem" and, in fact, quite a few expats that I've met here in CH have told me that they avoid the EF precisely because of this reason. A good friend of mine even once said to me, "I don't know why you like that place. Everyone on there is so belittling."

Of course, I don't think that's true (or else I wouldn't be a regular member). I've "met" a lot of really nice people on here and have found the EF to be incredibly helpful. I also think that some people mistake cheekiness and jokes for the serious, when the comment wasn't intended to be interpreted that way. But I have noticed that sometimes people are a bit too quick to condemn a newbie for silly things like misspelling*, asking a question that was already answered, etc.

*Oh, the irony. I had to spell that word three times until I finally got it right.

Now, if you'll excuse me...
Ha ha, this is the reason I don't stay too long on forums in my native language. I don't (usually) make grammar or spelling mistakes, but the endless, anal-retentive comments on grammar and vocabulary and how a newbie must be an idiot because of this stuff turned me off from a few forums that seemed nice in the beginning. Some people need to get a life, seriously..
EF is not that bad from this point of view, but on the other hand one seriously needs to grow a thick skin to adjust to the general atmosphere (I did)..the moment I get really really bored with it (for the moment is still amusing, most of the time at least:roll eyes I will stop visiting this site. Quietly, without any melodramatic "goodbye and f*** you all" thread. Simple.
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  #165  
Old 10.02.2014, 15:13
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Re: The Treatment of New Posters

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Veteran here...
Recently someone told me my answer was appaling especially coming from a "forum legend".
Apparently some people are confusing an automated "virtual status" based on the amount of post, VS Reality.

We should never confuse quantity vs quality.

Technically, I have a "higher status" than you, but this is really ridiculous.

People should learn to manage their expectations and make some research first.
For example:
How one obtained such status?
Is that status meaning anything?

Honestly, I'd rather have no status that this thing, especially if people are taking it seriously.

I've (rarely) read posts from newbies who were far more useful and contributing than most of my posts.

So maybe we should drop that "newbies vs veteran or experts", this is not only ridiculous but a wrong debate.

Maybe we should honestly address the issue: someone posting something negative vs someone replying aggressively.
no matter whether member titles are dropped or reputation/thanks/groans junked, it will still be the case that snarky answers are given to lazy posters (usually but not always newbies).

We can't blame the technology, we can only blame the way we behave. Maybe it's good for the "normal" members to just ignore such threads and leave it to drop/be saved by the mods?

After all, if you resent the laziness of the thread starter, why LMGTFY or post a bunch of links or even say "use search" or "welcome to the forum"?

And if you think it is the technology then you should check out the Yahoo! groups/mailing lists where you can have one-upmanship and more delivered to your inbox (digest or real-time flow, your choice).

The world's an imperfect place and we all contribute to that.
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  #166  
Old 10.02.2014, 15:18
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Re: The Treatment of New Posters

Maybe, with questions like this, we should ask "What would Mark have done?"

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  #167  
Old 10.02.2014, 15:22
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Re: The Treatment of New Posters

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You can express vile racist homophobic misogynistic stuff on EF but its tolerated as long as its expressed politely, you end your sentence with a and you don't make ad hominem attacks or slag off dodgy companies.
I in fact don't mind people with views that are totally unacceptable for me, if they don't stoop down to immature personal attacks and are able to approach debates in a constructive way. We are basically a virtual debate club, it's an exercise. And some can't depersonalize enough, flame the messenger. You won't change people's ideas by pushing them out or shaming them. If one is able to politely disagree I don't care what they believe in, we are a relatively liberal, open platform. But aggressive bullies, whatever opinions they have (even if we see eye to eye on an issue) and whatever reasons they are posting for, jokes, etc..won't make me engage. Unless it's a ban, heh, but that's a mod hat on. Nothing to do with wanting to share in a debate, a mod hat off, toujours.

I agree this is not particularly noob vs oldies issue, though. It's an issue of not being able to resist the temptation to annonymously jab, expecting ovations.
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  #168  
Old 10.02.2014, 15:24
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Re: The Treatment of New Posters

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I in fact don't mind people with views that are totally unacceptable for me, if they don't stoop down to immature personal attacks and are able to approach debates in a constructive way. You won't change people's ideas by pushing them out or shaming them. If one is able to politely disagree I don't care what they believe in, we are a relatively liberal, open platform. But aggressive bullies, whatever opinions are (even if we see eye to eye on an issue) and whatever reasons they are posting for, jokes, etc..won't make me or engage. Unless it's a ban, heh, but that's a mod hat on. Nothing to do with wanting to share in a debate, a mod hat off, toujours.

I agree this is not particularly noob vs oldies issue, though. It's an issue of not being able to resist the temptation to annonymously jab, expecting ovations.
there you go you prove my point in one go. you're a mod and you're basically saying as long as you wrap it up in flowers you can say anything you like even if it is vile.
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  #169  
Old 10.02.2014, 15:25
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Re: The Treatment of New Posters

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Maybe, with questions like this, we should ask "What would Mark have done?"

Well......thread 1900 in the early days of the forum: Should our members answer the questions of the chronically lazy?

Mark had a lot of answers but also questions....I don't think there is a right or wrong answer here other than to be humanely civil to people where possible. Otherwise you side with the "chronically lazy" or the "intolerant".

If you look at it this way, a forum is a concentration of everything you might experience in your life in one location. With the added fun of alternate personas due to everyone being keyboard warriors.
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  #170  
Old 10.02.2014, 15:37
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Re: The Treatment of New Posters

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I in fact don't mind people with views that are totally unacceptable for me, if they don't stoop down to immature personal attacks and are able to approach debates in a constructive way...
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there you go you prove my point in one go. you're a mod and you're basically saying as long as you wrap it up in flowers you can say anything you like even if it is vile.
Wait, what? She didn't say anything of the sort. Please re-read the bold part. There are ways to get one's point across without making personal attacks or coming across as vile.
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  #171  
Old 10.02.2014, 18:11
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Re: The Treatment of New Posters

I don't think the OP was demanding anything - just very briefly asking a very simple question, and quite possibly in the shortest time possible.

Whilst the question may understandably attract some rather funny replies such as "Steal them in hotels like everybody else." which actually makes the forum a more enjoyable place to visit, other replies such as "What a stupid question, in a shop!" are quite simply damn rude.

Of course in a shop... but the meaning of the original question is clearly implied : which shop and where sells the best towels ( price v quality ).

Instead of being rude, one should simply ignore the question and not bother posting.

That is better manners.

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Of course that doesn't make you stupid, but would you join a group of strangers and demand to be told where to buy a sponge?

I'd like to think you'd start by saying, hello, I'm new here and I don't know where to find so and so, can anyone help?

It's just MANNERS!!!
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  #172  
Old 10.02.2014, 18:18
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Re: The Treatment of New Posters

I think it might be best to ignore, ignore and ignore.

Better that than be rude.

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The solution is simple. In the first e-mail sent to all newbies we should ask them to prefix all their first 10 posts with the phrase
"I am not a stupid annoying troll, but I cannot... "

Maybe I am stupid and trust people too much? Where in the examples above is the difference between trolling, stupidity & rudeness?

"Where can I buy a towel" can be any of these. How do I recognize the difference? Do I ignore, be sarcastic, or be rude?
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  #173  
Old 10.02.2014, 18:24
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Re: The Treatment of New Posters

Try jfgi ( i.e. "where to buy bath towels in Geneva" ) indeed and see what nonsensical answers google throws back... including links to this forum.



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nobody, but its his opinion. and thats ok.
when reading the towel post i think: where OP would buy towels back home?
so transfer that onto Geneva?
why not jfgi (just fookin google it) but coming here, registering ( i wonder how an inet iilliterate can manage that but is inapt using search function?) and asking that on EF?
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Old 10.02.2014, 18:39
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Re: The Treatment of New Posters

Ever wished somebody who sneezed "good health"?

Almost all the time and out aloud, as have lived many years in Egypt.

But I do get very funny looks when I do so in the UK.




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It in fact is very easy to get into this "community" . Stores at times can be difficult to locate even inside your own language area as names of products and names of services change.
You get some "Wienerli" in Zürich ? Nice but in Wien you better ask for "Frankfurter"

Here
http://www.hallo-schweiz.ch/CH_17_Sprache2.htm
you can find a nice list of German words
-
but
- have you ever seen a children-garden in Britain or the USA ?
- ever wished somebody who sneezed "good health" ?
- ever wished somebody to start eating a good one (English for "änGuäte")
- realized that English speakers who say "I will table this proposal"
mean different things ?
- ask somebody in the USA about the Mews behind the house !
- the Motorway in Britain of course is THE major highway. But ask somebody in Texas what a "motorway" is


WHAT does all this mean in practical life ? It means that everything changes from city to city, area to area. So that some small help may be quite valuable
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  #175  
Old 10.02.2014, 18:40
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Re: The Treatment of New Posters

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YES, if meeting somebody directly I say far more than in the forum. So that it is rather the contrary. The direct contact has the advantage that you during the conversation can supply whatever further explanation is needed

I always thought it would be fun meeting this guy ,wolly, but now you ruined it
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  #176  
Old 10.02.2014, 18:42
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Re: The Treatment of New Posters

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I think it might be best to ignore, ignore and ignore.

Better that than be rude.
I don't think so.

And facing someone rude should not be the end of your world, but maybe the beginning of a new one. In fact, anyone not going for the drama-queen victimization might take it as an opportunity to reflect on what wrong or allegedly wrong they have done, and improved themselves. For example by raising the bar, making efforts, focusing on the better.

But let's face it: we're not going to agree.
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  #177  
Old 10.02.2014, 18:47
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Re: The Treatment of New Posters

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I don't think the OP was demanding anything - just very briefly asking a very simple question, and quite possibly in the shortest time possible.

Whilst the question may understandably attract some rather funny replies such as "Steal them in hotels like everybody else." which actually makes the forum a more enjoyable place to visit, other replies such as "What a stupid question, in a shop!" are quite simply damn rude.

Of course in a shop... but the meaning of the original question is clearly implied : which shop and where sells the best towels ( price v quality ).

Instead of being rude, one should simply ignore the question and not bother posting.

That is better manners.
So, we should have manners while replying to the questions, but the newbies can dispense with them for the sake of brevity?

Wouldn't it be better if ALL showed good manners?
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  #178  
Old 10.02.2014, 18:47
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Re: The Treatment of New Posters

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Ever wished somebody who sneezed "good health"?

Almost all the time and out aloud, as have lived many years in Egypt.

But I do get very funny looks when I do so in the UK.
people. inthe UK probably feel someone else saying'good health' when they sneeze is an invasion of privacy
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  #179  
Old 10.02.2014, 18:49
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Re: The Treatment of New Posters

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Try jfgi ( i.e. "where to buy bath towels in Geneva" ) indeed and see what nonsensical answers google throws back... including links to this forum.
That is the very reason why we should not "ignore" and let people posting crap without replying: because then that's the only thing visible.

It's good that people from google can see that such behavior is not always accepted and that they should make efforts not to be in the same position.

PS: Google or a computer does not provide "common sense" to people. I guess it should be a mandatory requirement prior to use an advanced technology.

PS2: Geneve is a french speaking canton, if you expect to find more appropriate local results in a "first search" then I'd suggest you think about it first. I've done the same question in french, and in the first page you get many shop ideas. It's also possible in English directly, but you need to be a bit more clever in your search query.
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Old 10.02.2014, 18:54
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Re: The Treatment of New Posters

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PS2: Geneve is a french speaking canton, if you expect to find more appropriate local results in a "first search" then I'd suggest you think about it first. I've done the same question in french, and in the first page you get many shop ideas. It's also possible in English directly, but you need to be a bit more clever in your search query.
If only there were a web site where you could directly ask people who lived there, and spoke English.
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