Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Complaints corner  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 22.04.2008, 11:10
cremebrulee's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 390
Groaned at 13 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 312 Times in 137 Posts
cremebrulee is considered knowledgeablecremebrulee is considered knowledgeablecremebrulee is considered knowledgeable
Re: Smoking in the balcony :-O

Quote:
View Post
Strangely enough no I dont smoke. I am just old enough to remember the days when smoking was allowed everywhere and anywhere and no-one ever complained. My father always smoked and I rather liked the smell of smoke and always used to go upstairs on the bus going to school along with the smokers and it never bothered me. I just dont understand or sympathise with the present day hysteria against smokers. Sure smoking CAN cause cancer of the lungs but as I discussed with a doctor friend of mine, there are other pyschological factors involved such as fear or depression which precedes the onset of cancer and this is usually the reason people smoke to help suppress their inner demons.

The reaction of some non-smokers towards smokers I find very provocative and condescending - thats all.
People are free to smoke as much as they please, but this does not mean that the rest of the world has to smoke with them.

Non-smokers have been quite considerate of smokers for a long time, until the effects of passive smoking has become more well-known.

Smokers should also be considerate of non-smokers; the smell of cigarette smoke is not pleasing to everyone.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank cremebrulee for this useful post:
  #62  
Old 22.04.2008, 11:34
cremebrulee's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 390
Groaned at 13 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 312 Times in 137 Posts
cremebrulee is considered knowledgeablecremebrulee is considered knowledgeablecremebrulee is considered knowledgeable
Re: Smoking in the balcony :-O

Quote:
View Post
An example of how curing one problem can lead to others. Banned from the inside the building the smokers now congregate in one place which concentrates the problem for those in the vicinity and who are sensitive to cigarette smoke. If you think it's bad now just wait for Summer when the good weather will tempt even more outside into the sunshine. It's now not just an opportunity to smoke but an opportunity to socialise. But we non-smokers can't have it both ways and unless someone does something to address the smokers' interests then I don't see how we can deny the smokers their last refuge. I hear the EU is thinking of legislating so that smokers can't smoke within a few metres of a doorway to a public building but that only passes on the problem somewhere and to someone else.

Much as I would like to see a cigarette free world myself, I share the planet with folks who see things differently and if we expect them to comply with increasing restrictions we should provide them with somewhere to smoke which works for them and non smokers alike so we can all co-exist happily together. I worked in an office in Tokyo where smokers were provided an airconditioned room with a coffee machine. The extraction fan worked really well and although there was an undeniable aroma in the room it didn't permeate the rest of the floor it was on and was far from the rather squalid smoking booths you see in some airports which aren't pleasant even for those who enjoy a smoke. I believe the air was filtered before it exited into the atmosphere. Result, no crowds of smokers and the building's entrance. Not all buildings can accommodate this so perhaps other solutions have to found. All us non smokers can take the moral high road and say smoking is bad for you so everybody should stop smoking but some concessions have to be made for those who see the world differently for their benefit and for ours.
My company recently adopted a smoke-free environment. Previously, there were a number of coffee shops dotted around the complex, with roughly the same number allocated to smokers and non-smokers. The non-smoking coffee shops have recently been turned into office space, and smokers have now been asked to smoke outside in a designated courtyard. Of course, it is a bit too cold to venture outside into this courtyard unless you also grab your coat and scarf, so the smokers have been huddling around the entrances to smoke. As it so happens, this is against the company policy because it presents a bad image to clients.

To take things one step further, in most states in Australia, the smoking ban laws stipulate that you cannot smoke within 4 to 5 metres of the entrance of a workplace or public building. So Australian employees have no choice but smoke in designated places, which is usually around the corner away from public view.

Yes, I agree that these laws/policies can make smokers feel like they are being picked on and discriminated against. But the undeniable policy behind the movement towards a smoke-free environment is the promotion of good health - for smokers and non-smokers alike.

I have nothing against smokers (which is why I have not made any complaint to the smokers smoking under my office window), but I just do not want to be passively smoking with them. To the people who groaned at my previous post, is there something wrong with this statement?
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 22.04.2008, 12:31
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Smoking in the balcony :-O

Quote:
View Post
People are free to smoke as much as they please, but this does not mean that the rest of the world has to smoke with them.

Non-smokers have been quite considerate of smokers for a long time, until the effects of passive smoking has become more well-known.

Smokers should also be considerate of non-smokers; the smell of cigarette smoke is not pleasing to everyone.
You were groaned at because I'm sick of non-smokers (ex being the worse) having their cake then asking for more. You have your non-smoking warm environment, leave us to ours.

(It's good that we're sending the message of segregation, nice one for children to learn. "Seperate people by their decisions, and forget tolerance of others"????)

If we are provided or told an area is to be used, most people do that. It's not a case of people annoying others on purpose. It's a case of no option/no direction.

The UK has in it's infinite wisdom banned smoking from public areas rather than seperating them.

Which means get used to noise pollution if you live in a city centre, get used to people standing outside of buildings and the general harassment of people huddling together in a street. The summer will be a nightmare I guarantee it for non-smokers, the next will be a complaint about the lack of outdoor tables without smokers on them.

I really have an issue with the "we've been hard done by argument" So what you're saying is I now want to punish smokers? Two wrongs don't make a right do they?

Passive smoking is junk and look through the forum for previous threads. I'm not going to start yet another one after explaining it all in depth as I have already probably over 50 odd posts, but there's something very sinister going on there. I'd rather take my chances with a bit of cigarette smoke than a city full of 4x4's.

I agree cigarette smoke can be annoying, so I suggest (seriously) to the OP, load your balcony with lavender and other plants which could counter-act the situation. Plus it will make your balcony look nice and smell good too!

We try to be considerate but are given little choice in some cases this could be easily avoided by a compromise solution, unfortunately companies/governments do not get this simple notion in their quest to eradicate their own massive sources of tax revenue.

Last edited by Cata1yst; 22.04.2008 at 13:14.
Reply With Quote
The following 8 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #64  
Old 22.04.2008, 12:36
Nil's Avatar
Nil Nil is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Basel
Posts: 10,359
Groaned at 428 Times in 333 Posts
Thanked 16,045 Times in 6,322 Posts
Nil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Smoking in the balcony :-O

I have the same thing right now, I still get groan at to do the same statement!

By the way, I like the lavender solution, I will try.... I didn't buy my plants yet, but I will definitly invest on nice and smelly ones...
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 22.04.2008, 12:45
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Smoking in the balcony :-O

Quote:
View Post
As is so happens, my colleagues and I moved offices last week to smaller premises. I share an office with one of my colleagues, and we were delighted to discover that we had a window in our office that actually opens. Five minutes into work, we both noticed the smell of cigarette smoke drifting into our office. Upon looking out the window, we saw 4 men smoking at the entrace to the building, which happens to be under our window.

Grrrrr

Not only is the smell of smoke very unpleasant in an office, but one of my pet hates is having to walk past a bunch of smokers in order to get into my building. Surely these people must know that it looks bad for the company if they are smoking at the entrance? Not to mention the litter of cigarette butts at the entrance door??
Erm well that seems to be the area which was provided, sorry but you should complain that smokers are not given a specific area to go to which is known as a smoking area which keeps everyone happy.

Well the company has several choices....

Move them to another area further away, (Then again they waste more time walking to smoking area placed further away)

Provide free give up smoking clinics (healthy workers take less sick days so in the companies interest) This is the only option of a responible company along with the one above.

Ban from site completely. (Facist Option)

Give the employees an inside air filtered smoking area.

All viable alternatives, as I said lack of vision, understanding and ultimately lazyness to fit in with the pc, lets jump on facist anti-smoking bandwagon .
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank for this useful post:
This user groans at for this post:
  #66  
Old 22.04.2008, 12:48
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Smoking in the balcony :-O

Quote:
View Post
I have the same thing right now, I still get groan at to do the same statement!

By the way, I like the lavender solution, I will try.... I didn't buy my plants yet, but I will definitly invest on nice and smelly ones...
Lavender is cool for children as it attracts a lot of bees/insects that you can look up at close, plus it looks awesome when there's lots of it. (then again a few bee's might sting the smokers if you're lucky!)

Personally I like Alpine plants but they're a pain to grow (Edelweiss is a nightmare), and don't really smell of much, roses are another option in tall pots..
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 22.04.2008, 12:54
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Smoking in the balcony :-O

Herb pots are another idea and it's cool to grow your own food. Basil is a strong smell along with Rosemary.

By the time you've planted this lot I doubt you'll be able to smell anything of the cigarette smoke
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 22.04.2008, 13:51
leylak's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 318
Groaned at 7 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 140 Times in 60 Posts
leylak is considered knowledgeableleylak is considered knowledgeableleylak is considered knowledgeable
Re: Smoking in the balcony :-O

Nil,
I am a pregnant (sort of ex) smoker too and I'd just like to share a discovery with you. I have had a hard time hanging out in my living room because for the first time in a year, I noticed how badly it reeks of cigarettes. I mean, it makes me want to ralf. The smell rises up through the heaters from the apartment below. I no longer hang out in the living room much and when I do I generally light incense or something. Yeah, the neighbors make my apartment stink but I am pretty sure we are loud by their standards so we're even.

Pregnancy heightens your sense of smell and will lower your threshold for what smells/tastes are acceptable. So maybe your condition partly contributes to your state of mind right now. It's unpleasant but the smell isn't going to harm your fetus. I mean, people have babies in LA all the time and they have to breathe the air there for 9 months before they do!

In any case, your neighbors *also* pay rent so you are not entitled to more freedoms than they are. Putting up with other people's idiosyncrasies is just a price you pay for living in society. Or in high density conditions.

Good luck
Reply With Quote
The following 8 users would like to thank leylak for this useful post:
  #69  
Old 22.04.2008, 14:19
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Solothurn
Posts: 724
Groaned at 88 Times in 55 Posts
Thanked 645 Times in 325 Posts
Enaj has a reputation beyond reputeEnaj has a reputation beyond reputeEnaj has a reputation beyond reputeEnaj has a reputation beyond reputeEnaj has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Smoking in the balcony :-O

Have recently received a letter from a friend living in Burton-on-Trent (UK) who states that a major casino and 35 pubs in the area are or will be closing down by June this summer because of the no smoking rule and lack of customers. This causes the loss of many jobs and other related problems.

To Abfab: Yes I probably have led a sheltered life because Ive never lived
in an apartment where someone smokes on the balcony below me. (Wasnt a very good argument was it?). End of discussion....
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 22.04.2008, 14:27
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Smoking in the balcony :-O

Quote:
View Post
Have recently received a letter from a friend living in Burton-on-Trent (UK) who states that a major casino and 35 pubs in the area are or will be closing down by June this summer because of the no smoking rule and lack of customers. This causes the loss of many jobs and other related problems.

To Abfab: Yes I probably have led a sheltered life because Ive never lived
in an apartment where someone smokes on the balcony below me. (Wasnt a very good argument was it?). End of discussion....
Well as a smoker I have these comments.

Bars knew this was coming and should have branched out a little more.

They knew the hard core drinkers would no longer come and fill the tills, so they should have provided a smoking area where possible outside and branched out into to providing good local food which would drag in new custom. There's plenty of other avenues they could have explored. Baring in mind food has the biggest markup of profit in any pub there's really no excuse in some cases.

Admittedly it would not stop the rot completely but might save a few pubs.
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 22.04.2008, 14:31
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Solothurn
Posts: 724
Groaned at 88 Times in 55 Posts
Thanked 645 Times in 325 Posts
Enaj has a reputation beyond reputeEnaj has a reputation beyond reputeEnaj has a reputation beyond reputeEnaj has a reputation beyond reputeEnaj has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Smoking in the balcony :-O

Quote:
View Post
What if he is single?
And does not have an imaginary friend? Or God does not speak to him?
If you read the messages properly you will see that she lives with her husband.
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 22.04.2008, 20:56
Nil's Avatar
Nil Nil is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Basel
Posts: 10,359
Groaned at 428 Times in 333 Posts
Thanked 16,045 Times in 6,322 Posts
Nil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Smoking in the balcony :-O

Ok people,

If you read me well, I said many times how I don't care if they smoke or not, and of course, they have the same rights then me to do what they want in their house.

But like I also said, when their rights go on my rights I should be able to do something about it. In that case, it is their rights to smoke outside their house on their balcony, but it is my rights to not have to deal with their smoke coming in my house. ( Enaj, you keep counting?)

Now as a nice person, I tried to find a solution, I went to them, and try to find a way to make EVERYBODY happy. They didn't give a s**t.

GOOD NEWS:

Last week, after I try to find a solution with my neighbours, I spoke to my landlord. She told me, as many here told me... She was not able to do that much about it. But she was concerned and told me she will comes back to me. So she did some research and she told me she will install a fan on their balcony to see how it's will be. So we will try this solution, and we will see how it works.

We just need to be nice to each other and try to live in peace. I did my effort, they will do their effort as well, and we will see!
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 23.04.2008, 07:21
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Solothurn
Posts: 724
Groaned at 88 Times in 55 Posts
Thanked 645 Times in 325 Posts
Enaj has a reputation beyond reputeEnaj has a reputation beyond reputeEnaj has a reputation beyond reputeEnaj has a reputation beyond reputeEnaj has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Smoking in the balcony :-O

Congratulations
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 23.04.2008, 09:25
szhjcn's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,765
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 381 Times in 302 Posts
szhjcn has earned the respect of manyszhjcn has earned the respect of manyszhjcn has earned the respect of many
Re: Smoking in the balcony :-O

Quote:
View Post
Some thoughts:
  • For those looking for a new flat: I'd recommend looking for a flat equipped with an air circulation system (that's not an air-con system, as these are usually not allowed for flats in Switzerland). New properties built in recent years are usually equipped with such a system. It keeps the air in your flat fresh and clean even with windows closed. That's also a plus if you happen to live at a busy street or in a noisy environment or if you suffer from hay fever. Unfortunately, such flats aren't easy to get and they tend to cost quite a bit more than average flats (but it's really worth it for added comfort and flexibility).
This is because new properties are so Air-Tight that they have to install something of sufficate the occupants. It is also more energy efficient so you can get fresh air in hte winter without opening a window. The system we have uses a heat exchanger to recover the heat, which is great in the winter but bad in the summer and after a lot of complaining, we have a bi-pass for the heat exchanger. reversing it would be a better solution but more complicated.

Quote:
View Post
People are free to smoke as much as they please, but this does not mean that the rest of the world has to smoke with them.

Non-smokers have been quite considerate of smokers for a long time, until the effects of passive smoking has become more well-known.

Smokers should also be considerate of non-smokers; the smell of cigarette smoke is not pleasing to everyone.
I agree I don't want to stop people smoking, but at the same time I don't want to be subjected to thier smoke.

Maybe instead of a total ban in public areas, places can have the option of providing a segmented area (sealed and ventilated so to not affect the non-smoking are). I was in one place resently which had a non-smoking area, but you had to walk thourhg the smoking area to get to it, and as usual the 'whole' are is open.
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 23.04.2008, 10:28
PlantHead's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nowhere
Posts: 1,686
Groaned at 65 Times in 49 Posts
Thanked 2,702 Times in 1,015 Posts
PlantHead has a reputation beyond reputePlantHead has a reputation beyond reputePlantHead has a reputation beyond reputePlantHead has a reputation beyond reputePlantHead has a reputation beyond reputePlantHead has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Smoking in the balcony :-O

Quote:
View Post
Herb pots are another idea and it's cool to grow your own food. Basil is a strong smell along with Rosemary.

By the time you've planted this lot I doubt you'll be able to smell anything of the cigarette smoke

The balcony the couple upstairs from us use, is right next to our bedroom window (outside staircase to their place goes past our window)..They have a smoke every evening at around 10:30...I am considering opening my window and farting at them....they can hardly complain, 1 anti-social smell is as good as another, and I hope my fart is sweeter than their smoke....but maybe not, might load up on meat for dinner before I let go mind.
Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old 23.04.2008, 17:36
Swissguy's Avatar
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 22
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 14 Times in 10 Posts
Swissguy has no particular reputation at present
Re: Smoking in the balcony :-O

Quote:
View Post
This is because new properties are so Air-Tight that they have to install something of sufficate the occupants. It is also more energy efficient so you can get fresh air in hte winter without opening a window. The system we have uses a heat exchanger to recover the heat, which is great in the winter but bad in the summer and after a lot of complaining, we have a bi-pass for the heat exchanger. reversing it would be a better solution but more complicated.
Old, particularly the very old buildings ("Jugendstilhaus/-wohnung") often have much higher ceilings (sometimes 3.3 m and up) which is nice to have if you can't open the windows. So that would be an option too (potentially a very expensive one however!). These old properties usually have worse windows though, that don't isolate that well against smoke, dust, noise and low temperatures outside. Of course, the ideal (comfort- and energy-wise) would be to have high ceilings, well isolated windows and an air circulation system. Personally, I can't complain as the ceiling is at 2.7 m which is sufficiently high, IMHO.

Regarding the heat exchanger bi-pass. AFAIK, most air circulation systems use a technique that passes air from outside in pipes through the cellar (which is usually cooler than the environment in summer and warmer in winter). Not as effective as reversing a heat exchanger in summer, but OK and more environment-friendly.
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 23.04.2008, 17:49
BHBT's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: was Züri
Posts: 949
Groaned at 19 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 901 Times in 415 Posts
BHBT has a reputation beyond reputeBHBT has a reputation beyond reputeBHBT has a reputation beyond reputeBHBT has a reputation beyond reputeBHBT has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Smoking in the balcony :-O

Quote:
View Post
For those looking for a new flat: I'd recommend looking for a flat equipped with an air circulation system (that's not an air-con system, as these are usually not allowed for flats in Switzerland). New properties built in recent years are usually equipped with such a system. It keeps the air in your flat fresh and clean even with windows closed. That's also a plus if you happen to live at a busy street or in a noisy environment or if you suffer from hay fever. Unfortunately, such flats aren't easy to get and they tend to cost quite a bit more than average flats (but it's really worth it for added comfort and flexibility).
At the risk of going a little

These apartments can be recognized by being referred to as Minergie standard. Not only are the air circulation systems excellent (some new ones even have variable circulation speeds) but you also save a lot on heating/cooling expenses.

Barbra.
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 23.04.2008, 17:52
Sutter's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Thurgau
Posts: 5,799
Groaned at 68 Times in 48 Posts
Thanked 2,824 Times in 1,605 Posts
Sutter has a reputation beyond reputeSutter has a reputation beyond reputeSutter has a reputation beyond reputeSutter has a reputation beyond reputeSutter has a reputation beyond reputeSutter has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Smoking in the balcony :-O

Ok after reading this thread, and posts you all got me thinking and worried because i smoke outside (we live on the ground floor), does my smoke bother my upstairs neighbour, so earlier i went up, and asked her, and she said it does not bother her, and she cannot smell my smoke in her flat phew. I say phew because if she would of said yes i do not know where i could of gone to have a quick smoke .
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Sutter for this useful post:
  #79  
Old 23.04.2008, 17:54
BHBT's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: was Züri
Posts: 949
Groaned at 19 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 901 Times in 415 Posts
BHBT has a reputation beyond reputeBHBT has a reputation beyond reputeBHBT has a reputation beyond reputeBHBT has a reputation beyond reputeBHBT has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Smoking in the balcony :-O

But I'll bet she appreciates you asking, Sutter! Neighbourhood brownie points for you!



Barbra.
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 23.04.2008, 17:58
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Smoking in the balcony :-O

Quote:
View Post
The balcony the couple upstairs from us use, is right next to our bedroom window (outside staircase to their place goes past our window)..They have a smoke every evening at around 10:30...I am considering opening my window and farting at them....they can hardly complain, 1 anti-social smell is as good as another, and I hope my fart is sweeter than their smoke....but maybe not, might load up on meat for dinner before I let go mind.
Be careful with that one it may backfire, farts are flammable

Enjoy!

Then again knowing that they smoke at 10.30pm would lead me to consider closing the windows for 10 mins at this time.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Smoking in restaurants mark Complaints corner 142 16.08.2008 20:13
[Zurich] Smoke-free restaurants Beverly Floyd Entertainment & dining 10 10.03.2008 15:17
Two thirds of Swiss want restaurant smoking ban nickatbasel Swiss politics/news 171 07.02.2008 13:43
Smoking & Health Insurance Nickers Complaints corner 21 07.08.2007 22:29
Finally: Lung association seeks petition to ban smoking in restaurants mark Swiss politics/news 11 15.03.2006 09:22


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 15:51.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0