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  #41  
Old 14.04.2008, 11:26
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Re: Roundabout driving - Mirror Signal Manoeuvre

Aaaah the Magic roundabout. Who the F' came up with that idea? Used to dread this when I visited my brother in Swindon.

I also beleive it is useful to indicate that you are going around the roundabout. But I guess only assume people are coming off when they indicate (if they bother to).

As the roundabout entrances are marked with 'Giveway' symbols, it means that the person on the rounabout has right of way. But have on numerous occasions nearly t-boned cars blatenly join when they should wait. The worst cases have been when I was on the Motobike (get the heat pumping.....).
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  #42  
Old 15.04.2008, 20:50
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Re: Roundabout driving - Mirror Signal Manoeuvre

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Aaaah the Magic roundabout. Who the F' came up with that idea?
I sense your pain as you must have to deal with the roundabout hell that is situated outside the Chinese restaurant in A.a.A. Whoever designed that beauty should be hung up by the short & curlies.
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  #43  
Old 17.04.2008, 17:16
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Re: Roundabout driving - Mirror Signal Manoeuvre

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Aaaah the Magic roundabout. Who the F' came up with that idea? Used to dread this when I visited my brother in Swindon.
It wasn't too bad once you got used to it. Honest!

What really got me in Swindon was the proliferation of mini roundabouts, often so small that they were just a bit of paint on the road and you had to drive over the things. What would be a standard T junction anywhere else in the country was a mini roundabout. This would often lead to 3 cars all waiting for each other to make the first move, and I often wondered how many accidents the things actually caused.
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  #44  
Old 18.04.2008, 08:49
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Re: Roundabout driving - Mirror Signal Manoeuvre

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I sense your pain as you must have to deal with the roundabout hell that is situated outside the Chinese restaurant in A.a.A. Whoever designed that beauty should be hung up by the short & curlies.
What's wrong with that roundabout? Never had any real problem with it. Maybe when coming out of Migros car park the junction to the left is quite close so not much chance to get out sometimes.
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  #45  
Old 18.04.2008, 08:53
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Re: Roundabout driving - Mirror Signal Manoeuvre

Wish they would install one in Adliswil at the junction from HELL.

I'm always just wanting to stay on the main road, but people wanting to turn on or off build some nice queues and eventually bring the traffic to a halt.

I mean who puts a junction on a bend along with a pedestrian crossing!!!
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  #46  
Old 18.04.2008, 12:21
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Re: Roundabout driving - Mirror Signal Manoeuvre

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On the road between Schinznach Bad and Schinznach Dorf there is a crossroads.
I really wish there was a roundabout as I have no idea what to do.
Who has priority? Is it right to left or who gets there first?
People just seem to wait and try and agree using eye contact. Even the swiss seem to have difficulties on this junction. Both roads are of a similar importance.
It has got to the point that if there is more than one other car, I just veer off the first right and do a U turn further down the road and then turn first right back at the junction. (this is if I want to just go straight through the crossroads). It may sound stupid, but it seems the only sensible solution to avoiding a mishap.
Indicating along the way I hope!

Seriously, you might want to check for priorities signs, and in their absence, yield to the right would be the norm. In most places.
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  #47  
Old 18.04.2008, 12:41
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Re: Roundabout driving - Mirror Signal Manoeuvre

When it comes to crossing and roundabouts in Switzerland, it seems that people either don't know the rules or simply ignore them.
Just yesterday I was driving between Lausanne and Geneva and a car was driving in left lane for about 10 kilometers, and not wanting to move to the right. He was driving at exactly 120 or slightly less (probably did not wanted to get caught by the radar), but he stayed in the left lane, despite right lane beeing half empty.
In a roundabout I almost got hit by the truck becuase guy was in turning right from the left lane. He did not wanted to wait in line to turn right, so he simply took left lane and went straight into the roundabout and then took right.
What I also noticed here is that people do not slow down in the roundabout if they are going straight. They think if they are going straight they have the yield and continure at the same speed as on the road. So if you are coming from the side (and you are first to enter but slower, they don't care) watch out. I had a guy almost hit me from behind, becuase I was too slow in the roundabout (I was coming from the left side and he was going strainght). I see broken glas from the lights in the roundabouts several times a week.
In summary, trafic rules are not strong side of the swiss driver except when there are cameras involved and they could get caught. If they know that there is no risk, they don't follow many rules (maybe only rule is the size of the car). Otherwise be carefull.
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  #48  
Old 18.04.2008, 14:21
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Re: Roundabout driving - Mirror Signal Manoeuvre

Sometimes Lorries need more space to turn and even if there are 2 lanes on a roundabout, I would avoid being along side a Lorry.

A friend learnt the hardway, on the way to spain, he tried overtaking a Lorry on a roundabout, both of us were going straight on, it was early hours in the morning with no traffic about and the the lorry went straight at the roundabout and re-arranged the side of my friends car.

Which was dam annoying as it woke me up (I was trying to sleep in the back).
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  #49  
Old 18.04.2008, 14:28
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Re: Roundabout driving - Mirror Signal Manoeuvre

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Sometimes Lorries need more space to turn and even if there are 2 lanes on a roundabout, I would avoid being along side a Lorry.

A friend learnt the hardway, on the way to spain, he tried overtaking a Lorry on a roundabout, both of us were going straight on, it was early hours in the morning with no traffic about and the the lorry went straight at the roundabout and re-arranged the side of my friends car.

Which was dam annoying as it woke me up (I was trying to sleep in the back).
As an LGV license holder it is a continual issue for us that car drivers either (a) don't appreciate the space we need to manouvre and (b) the space we need to stop.

the biggest problems for (a) occur when taking a tight 90 turn we need to put ourselves in the on coming lane in order to get the tail around without removing the corner of someones house. (b) is always on the motorway when people decide to exit by zipping in front of the truck and applying brakes in the lane instead of the slip road. Few accidents occur by its bloody annoying considering we could just keep our speed up and use our 40t of momentum to knock the car out of the way with possibly only a bit of paint damage..

The best time to be nowhere near a truck is on a round-a-bout as has been said. However in the case above, it sounds like the lorry driver was at fault. So apologies for that.
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  #50  
Old 18.04.2008, 14:35
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Re: Roundabout driving - Mirror Signal Manoeuvre

I thought you guys had photoshoped that magic roundabout photo but it does exist... be fun to drive round now I'm used to driving on the wrong side of the road

http://www.swindonweb.com/index.asp?...GIC+ROUNDABOUT
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  #51  
Old 18.04.2008, 14:49
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Re: Roundabout driving - Mirror Signal Manoeuvre

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I thought you guys had photoshoped that magic roundabout photo but it does exist... be fun to drive round now I'm used to driving on the wrong side of the road

http://www.swindonweb.com/index.asp?...GIC+ROUNDABOUT
There are 2 of them (maybe more now) one is in Swindon, the other I can't remember (further north I think). Yes they are real, luckily I came into Swindon form the other side and did not have to cross it often. I guess if you use it regularly you get used to it.
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  #52  
Old 18.04.2008, 14:58
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Re: Roundabout driving - Mirror Signal Manoeuvre

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As an LGV license holder it is a continual issue for us that car drivers either (a) don't appreciate the space we need to manouvre and (b) the space we need to stop.

the biggest problems for (a) occur when taking a tight 90 turn we need to put ourselves in the on coming lane in order to get the tail around without removing the corner of someones house. (b) is always on the motorway when people decide to exit by zipping in front of the truck and applying brakes in the lane instead of the slip road. Few accidents occur by its bloody annoying considering we could just keep our speed up and use our 40t of momentum to knock the car out of the way with possibly only a bit of paint damage..

The best time to be nowhere near a truck is on a round-a-bout as has been said. However in the case above, it sounds like the lorry driver was at fault. So apologies for that.
I've never driven anything bigger than a 3-tonner, which I did on a regular basis working for bands etc... so I have an idea of what you are talking about.

Must admit I give Lorries as much space as possible, I especially hate not seeing what is in front of a Lorry to get some for-warning of what the traffic is doing.

The most frightening experience I had with a Lorry was on the North ring heading towards tunnel in the direction of Basel. It was raining, I was in the outside lane driving at a safe speed on my Motorbike. I saw the traffic ahead slowing down, so I eased off and started slowing down as well. A lorry on the indide lane had not seen the traffic was slowing donw and flew past me, then realised what was happening. He Hit the brakes and tail end of the trailer went sideways across the lane in front of me.

I had no-where to go and my life flashed before me literally. I had no where to go and if I braked to avoid this, I would have lost the bike. Then suddenly at the last moment he released his brakes and the trailer straightened up.

I managed to get home safely but shaken (and probably in the need for a clean pair of trousers ). That was not something I would like to repeat.
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  #53  
Old 18.04.2008, 15:01
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Re: Roundabout driving - Mirror Signal Manoeuvre

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I thought you guys had photoshoped that magic roundabout photo but it does exist... be fun to drive round now I'm used to driving on the wrong side of the road

http://www.swindonweb.com/index.asp?...GIC+ROUNDABOUT
Surprisingly it does work in rush hour traffic.

There are 3 others in the UK, referenced here
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  #54  
Old 18.04.2008, 15:11
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Re: Roundabout driving - Mirror Signal Manoeuvre

The other one is in Hemel Hempstead. I used to live in St Albans, and encountered it a couple of times. Basically everyone just crawls around it at a snail's pace sweating bullets.

Regarding loony-tunes behaviour on roundabouts in der Schweiz, last month, coming up on the motorway which ends at a multi-lane roundabout south of Hinwil, I was rather annoyed to be overtaken and carved up by a big BMW. I saw him shoot up the ramp ahead of me onto the roundabout, indicating that he wanted to turn left. I then saw him veer in a huge skid across the roundabout lanes, from left to right, with smoke coming out of his tyres and his horn blaring. I wondered what on earth could be happening. I then noticed the complete imbecile in the left lane of the roundabout reversing slowly with his right indicator on, trying to get back far enough so that he could turn down the first exit of the roundabout (which he had obviously overshot...). Words sometimes fail me...

Jim
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Old 18.04.2008, 15:38
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Re: Roundabout driving - Mirror Signal Manoeuvre

they have definetely no idea how to hand a round about... and what's with the traffic lights that somehow are VERY hard to see once you stop at the stop line??

Then again, the Swiss don't seem to be able to walk properly either, so not surprised about their driving skills... do they really need to drive like 30cm from the back of my car or safety distance is not a concept here either??
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  #56  
Old 18.04.2008, 15:45
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Re: Roundabout driving - Mirror Signal Manoeuvre

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they have definetely no idea how to hand a round about... and what's with the traffic lights that somehow are VERY hard to see once you stop at the stop line??

Then again, the Swiss don't seem to be able to walk properly either, so not surprised about their driving skills... do they really need to drive like 30cm from the back of my car or safety distance is not a concept here either??
It's not tailgating, it's slipstreaming, you know save energy and be environmentally freindly
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Old 18.04.2008, 15:51
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Re: Roundabout driving - Mirror Signal Manoeuvre

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It's not tailgating, it's slipstreaming, you know save energy and be environmentally freindly
I think in NASCAR it's called drafting.
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Old 18.04.2008, 15:51
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Re: Roundabout driving - Mirror Signal Manoeuvre

and I thought they drove so close because they're a bunch of sooooo friendly people!!
I scare them on the highway by gently pressing my breaks suddenly...
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  #59  
Old 18.04.2008, 15:54
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Re: Roundabout driving - Mirror Signal Manoeuvre

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and I thought they drove so close because they're a bunch of sooooo friendly people!!
I scare them on the highway by gently pressing my breaks suddenly...
Yes a quick jab on the brakes usually has an effect.
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  #60  
Old 21.04.2008, 09:56
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Re: Roundabout driving - Mirror Signal Manoeuvre

Be VERY careful when trying this technique to dislodge the Swiss driver from his preferred position of practically touching your rear bumper.
Bear in mind all the little twinkling piles of glass you see on the road at every junction / traffic light / pedestrian crossing / roundabout. This gives you some idea of the quality of the reaction times / level of awareness of other road users we are talking about here.
Also be aware that if you are back-ended because you did this, the police may rule that you performed an unnecessary, dangerous and illegal manoeuvre, and throw the book at you. How are you going to argue that you did this because the guy behind was too close? If the police do get you on this count, this opens a real can of worms regarding insurance, and the guy who back-ended you sueing for as much as he can get (this has happened).
Personally I know of a guy who got a CHF 500 fine from the police after getting rammed in a barely moving traffic jam in the centre of Zürich, because he "Did not take appropriate measures to avoid getting hit..." This after the van behind him had written off his Z4.

Schweizergobbenschmakken!
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