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Old 04.07.2014, 09:15
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A "friendly neighbour" moved my bicycle twice

tl:dr version: Some neighbour is moving my bicycle and not being very careful about it, and I don't like it.

In my street, a limited number of places on the sidewalk have a balcony overhead which provides shade and cover from rain.
I've been parking my bicycle overnight under a particular spot for about 6 months now. There are lots of other bicycles parked along this sidewalk, and often there is another bicycle very near to where I prefer to park as well (and sometimes my preferred spot is taken).

The day before yesterday, I left my bicycle there, and found it next day moved outside the cover of balcony when I got there in the morning.
I left my bicycle there again, and today I found it moved, still in the cover of the balcony, but with my lock stretched to the limit by the spokes and touching the chain. After unlocking it I had to get my hands dirty to pry it from the wheel! Furthermore, when I started cycling my chain guard had been bent outward and it was touching the pedal every cycle (I shoved it a bit inside so fortunately that was easy to "fix").

Now, I am a bit upset with the situation.

First, I like to ask the forum, am I in the wrong? Should I stop parking there? I don't live in the house that has this balcony, but I figure the sidewalk doesn't belong to anyone - whereas the bicycle belongs to me and nobody should touch it unless necessary. I am not obstructing the door by any means and there is enough space in the sidewalk to go by with a baby carriage or with those mail buggies the Post uses. Whenever the spot is taken (which is rare) I don't move the other bicycle.

Then, should I do something about it? Given that the anonymous neighbor is doing this in the night I am not going to do a stakeout, but I can leave a (polite or less polite?) note asking the bicycle not to be moved again (optional I can explain why I park there - the cover - and/or that I don't want the lock to slip into the spokes/chain).

I do remember that a couple of different people who do live in that house were looking at me one or two weeks ago when I parked there and walked to my doorway.
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Old 04.07.2014, 09:23
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Re: A "friendly neighbour" moved my bicycle twice

You cannot leave your bicycle there. The land under the roof belongs to the house, and your bicycle is under someone's balcony, so the land is not yours.

It seems puerile as it is the pavement, but you have obviously upset somebody, and you don't have the law on your side. Maybe you can ask the balcony people to let you rent their space?

Don't you have a cellar, or a bicycle room, or your own balcony?
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Old 04.07.2014, 09:26
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Re: A "friendly neighbour" moved my bicycle twice

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You cannot leave your bicycle there. The land under the roof belongs to the house, and your bicycle is under someone's balcony, so the land is not yours.

It seems puerile as it is the pavement, but you have obviously upset somebody, and you don't have the law on your side. Maybe you can ask the balcony people to let you rent their space?

Don't you have a cellar, or a bicycle room, or your own balcony?
Fair enough, if I'm in the wrong I'll put it somewhere else. I'm surprised that the sidewalk belongs to the house though.

If you happen to know, does it matter if this is the only balcony on that particular building (I'm not sure it is actually "under the roof" per se, I think it is just the 1st floor that has a protruding balcony)?

And another question, if the bicycle happened to be actually damaged due to the moving (fortunately the chain guard wasn't really serious), would the neighbor that did it still be in the clear?
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Old 04.07.2014, 09:45
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Re: A "friendly neighbour" moved my bicycle twice

[Big Rant:] Everything in this world has to be paid for by somebody, and many people are really pissed off with cyclists taking space on pavements, holding up traffic, using bike lanes, and not paying a penny more than other citizens. I own a small scooter and use about the same space as a cyclist, but I pay road tax, which goes some way to paying for the road I use.

So when you place your bike on the pavement everyone has to walk around it. But it doesn't stop there does it? Another cyclist places his bike next to yours and then after 3 or 4 similar selfish actions, a mother cannot get past with her pram and has to walk out into the road.

Are you beginning to see why half the adult population do not like cyclists? Most cyclists are extremely selfish and the worst is, they think everyone should put up with their behaviour because they are not using any energy.

Please start a campaign "Pay for your share of cycling costs"

The city of Bern (Along with most cities) has tremendous problems with cycle parking around the main station. There are just not enough places, because cyclists don't always take their bike home, they leave the bike and take the train. Take a look at midnight, all the official parking is full up with someones iron rubbish.
[Big Rant:/]
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Old 04.07.2014, 09:54
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Re: A "friendly neighbour" moved my bicycle twice



What do you think a velo vignette is for?
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Old 04.07.2014, 09:58
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Re: A "friendly neighbour" moved my bicycle twice

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What do you think a velo vignette was is for?
FTFY.

Velo vignettes are a thing of the past.

Tom

Last edited by st2lemans; 04.07.2014 at 10:08.
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Old 04.07.2014, 09:59
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Re: A "friendly neighbour" moved my bicycle twice

OOPS. I'm on his(and)her ignore list anyway....

LORDY you are a groaner
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Old 04.07.2014, 10:05
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Re: A "friendly neighbour" moved my bicycle twice

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[Big Rant:] Everything in this world has to be paid for by somebody, and many people are really pissed off with cyclists taking space on pavements, holding up traffic, using bike lanes, and not paying a penny more than other citizens. I own a small scooter and use about the same space as a cyclist, but I pay road tax, which goes some way to paying for the road I use.

So when you place your bike on the pavement everyone has to walk around it. But it doesn't stop there does it? Another cyclist places his bike next to yours and then after 3 or 4 similar selfish actions, a mother cannot get past with her pram and has to walk out into the road.

Are you beginning to see why half the adult population do not like cyclists? Most cyclists are extremely selfish and the worst is, they think everyone should put up with their behaviour because they are not using any energy.

(...)
[Big Rant:/]
This is the complaint corner, let it all out

BTW, I also don't like when a scooter is taking up (2 or 3, not just 1) bicycle spaces, which happens frequently.

I pay taxes for those sidewalks and I pay taxes for the streets, just like you do, and just like people who are strictly pedestrians. Trucks delivering their post or stuff to supermarkets benefit mostly everyone so I think that makes sense that everyone pays for that.

You specifically pay road tax (presumably lower than a a truck, car or a higher power motorcycle) because your scooter has a more negative effect on the road than a light bicycle does.

Cyclists don't pay a penny more? Maybe because the government wants to encourage people to go on a bicycle instead of the alternatives. Cyclists pollute less on emissions and noise. The health benefits (whenever the cyclist doesn't get rammed by a car of course) are also considered significant and may cost governments less (and possibly are effectively lowering your current health insurance premium and fuel prices).

Cyclists are also at a considerably higher risk on the roads, and they have to use their own legs to start again after a red light. Start charging extra despite all those disadvantages and guess what, you get less cyclists, and believe or not it will very likely get worse for everyone (even for pedestrians, even for car drivers and yes, even for scooter riders).
If you replaced all the cyclists with scooter drivers the traffic situation and parking situation would very likely be much worse. And some of those cyclists would be replaced by cars, not scooters.
I think you are being short sighted. Perhaps cyclists don't pay a penny more, but that is because they are a net positive contribution compared to the alternatives.

(Almost?) Everyone is selfish. I am selfish and I am not ashamed to admit it.
If you are selfish as well (hint: you are), you actually want other people to be cycling for your own benefit. I know that I, as a selfish person, want most other people to be cycling as well.

But I'm not inconsiderate, or at least I try not to be.
I specifically noted that I leave enough space in the sidewalk for people to pass. The post scooter with the wide trailer passes there without issues, and so do parents with baby carriages (I'm fairly sure it is wide enough for twin carriages).
Where I park there are no "no bicycles here" signs, as there are for example in Basel SBB (and yes, there are bicycles parked there despite the sign. I go and park on the bicycle park in the south side of it).
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Old 04.07.2014, 10:10
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Re: A "friendly neighbour" moved my bicycle twice

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Cyclists don't pay a penny more?
Nope, in fact they can write off CHF 700/year on their taxes!

(which I do)

Tom
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Old 04.07.2014, 10:11
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Re: A "friendly neighbour" moved my bicycle twice

I like to lock my bike right across a narrow pavement, hide, and shout at people who touch it. Sometimes I'll pick it up and swing it around my head for a laugh.

I always stop at green lights and then cycle over them as soon as they go red. One time, I picked a busy roundabout and just cycled around it 20 times until the city was gridlocked.

Mothers with double buggies should be in the bus lane where they belong.
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Old 04.07.2014, 10:15
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Re: A "friendly neighbour" moved my bicycle twice

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I like to lock my bike right across a narrow pavement, hide, and shout at people who touch it. Sometimes I'll pick it up and swing it around my head for a laugh.

I always stop at green lights and then cycle over them as soon as they go red. One time, I picked a busy roundabout and just cycled around it 20 times until the city was gridlocked.

Mothers with double buggies should be in the bus lane where they belong.
I burst out laughing at the bus lane joke. The thread is worth it already.

Actually, can one go around roundabouts several times if one is unsure where to go, or is that obstructing traffic?
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Old 04.07.2014, 10:18
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Re: A "friendly neighbour" moved my bicycle twice

Op, maybe you could talk to the people who live there? Is it your neighbour/part of your building? If its bothering them then maybe you could get one of these:








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[Big Rant:] Everything in this world has to be paid for by somebody, and many people are really pissed off with cyclists taking space on pavements, holding up traffic, using bike lanes, and not paying a penny more than other citizens.
Likewise should pedestrians crossing over on pedestrian crossings holding up traffic also pay their way? It sounds like you think this should be a pollution filled car friendly world?? We all pay taxes that contribute to things we don't use.

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The city of Bern (Along with most cities) has tremendous problems with cycle parking around the main station. There are just not enough places, because cyclists don't always take their bike home, they leave the bike and take the train. Take a look at midnight, all the official parking is full up with someones iron rubbish.
[Big Rant:/]
Surely this is the a complaint for the gemeinde to perhaps adjust some of their multistoreies used for earth polluters that are cars, and allow them as parkhouses for bikes. I'm sure people would also pay a small fee for a rainshelter as the OP is fighting for! Plus it could house far more bikes than cars and motorbikes which just take up too much space!!!
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Old 04.07.2014, 10:20
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Re: A "friendly neighbour" moved my bicycle twice

Another member asking for advice and not liking the answer. I put myself in your neighbours shoes and gave you a summary of what others are probably thinking. Cyclists are definitely not loved in cities! If you cycle you will probably live longer and thus annoy us even more!

Btw, Velo Vignettes only covered 3rd party insurance, not tax nor road use. I know I own a bike, I will be cycling today.

At Bern station there is a manned, very large secure bicycle garage, always with plenty of room, but it costs a bit...
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Old 04.07.2014, 10:27
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Re: A "friendly neighbour" moved my bicycle twice

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You cannot leave your bicycle there. The land under the roof belongs to the house, and your bicycle is under someone's balcony, so the land is not yours.
Sometimes the land belongs to the building, sometimes they just rented the airspace from the city.

http://www.stadtplan.bs.ch/geoviewer...e&theme=1'
Select: Hintergrundkarte - Parzellenplan Grua
Thema - Amtliche Vermessung.
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Old 04.07.2014, 10:29
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Re: A "friendly neighbour" moved my bicycle twice

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I do remember that a couple of different people who do live in that house were looking at me one or two weeks ago when I parked there and walked to my doorway.
I guess they should have opened a thread in the complaints corner "Ignorant neighbor parks his bike at our house".
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Old 04.07.2014, 10:34
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Re: A "friendly neighbour" moved my bicycle twice

I'm reasonably sure you didn't miss the "fair enough, if I'm in the wrong I will stop parking there" part, so I'm not sure what irked you that much.

I'm perfectly aware cyclists are not loved in cities, possibly because there are more people being short-sighted like you apparently persist in being.

If you think about the alternatives, can you really tell me you would prefer those cyclists to be riding scooters or driving cars?
Please reply because I really would like to know.

Also interested in having an answer to that question from any other "cyclist-haters" that happen to be reading this. Do you really want the cyclists to become drivers? If yes, have you thought it through?
Where would they even park, with all the extra I wonder...

Maybe cyclists aren't paying a penny more in CHF, but they are paying with their labor. And if I want to nitpick (and I'm decent at nitpicking), I have to eat more to cycle, so I pay extra tax on the food (of course you pay extra tax on your fuel). Does that make it better?

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Another member asking for advice and not liking the answer. I put myself in your neighbours shoes and gave you a summary of what others are probably thinking. Cyclists are definitely not loved in cities! If you cycle you will probably live longer and thus annoy us even more!
(...).
Well, we all die in the end anyway.

If you want the health benefits, just do the exercise as well. I actually do want more cyclists rather than drivers. Mostly because it makes it safer for me on the road, but also because it would make it less noisy and less polluted. So possibly I'm probably living longer myself but I will also indirectly make you live longer (I'm not doing it so that I can annoy you even more though).
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Old 04.07.2014, 10:37
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Re: A "friendly neighbour" moved my bicycle twice

Wonderful, carry on.... (I own a cycle, and a small scooter 49 ccm. I do not own a car, my girl friend does, and I do drive that sometimes)
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Old 04.07.2014, 10:42
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Re: A "friendly neighbour" moved my bicycle twice

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Op, maybe you could talk to the people who live there? Is it your neighbour/part of your building?
It is another building with another number.

I don't know who did it, otherwise I would try to talk to the person (even though I'm not good enough at German).

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I guess they should have opened a thread in the complaints corner "Ignorant neighbor parks his bike at our house".
I am ignorant but I'm learning. Note that my first question was "Am I in the wrong".
Conversely, the neighbour that moved my bicycle put it 1st where it would catch rain and the 2nd time moved it carelessly in a way that could have damaged it.
The 1st time I actually figured it was some other cyclist that moved my bike out to park his/her there, but today I was pretty sure that wasn't the reason.

And now I want also to know if some of the "cyclist-haters" reading along are also learning about the several indirect benefits they get from cyclists.
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Old 04.07.2014, 10:46
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Re: A "friendly neighbour" moved my bicycle twice

The only road tax in Switzerland is the Autobahnvignette. Since bikes are not permitted on the Autobahn, it's hard to argue that cyclists should contribute.

Verkehrssteur is a tax on your vehicle based on engine size and in some cases CO2 emissions. It is not road tax. Again, by definition, cyclists are exempt (maybe there's a case for ebikes to pay something)

There are a lot of badly behaved cyclists out there. Also some bad drivers, and nasty pedestrians. It's a shame that everyone can't be more considerate and get along together. It's great that Switzerland invests in infrastructure to promote healthy living. More than 10% of commuter journeys are made by bike. In cities like Bern, the number is closer to 20%. Would you prefer to see 20% more cars on the roads?



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[Big Rant:] Everything in this world has to be paid for by somebody, and many people are really pissed off with cyclists taking space on pavements, holding up traffic, using bike lanes, and not paying a penny more than other citizens. I own a small scooter and use about the same space as a cyclist, but I pay road tax, which goes some way to paying for the road I use.

So when you place your bike on the pavement everyone has to walk around it. But it doesn't stop there does it? Another cyclist places his bike next to yours and then after 3 or 4 similar selfish actions, a mother cannot get past with her pram and has to walk out into the road.

Are you beginning to see why half the adult population do not like cyclists? Most cyclists are extremely selfish and the worst is, they think everyone should put up with their behaviour because they are not using any energy.

Please start a campaign "Pay for your share of cycling costs"

The city of Bern (Along with most cities) has tremendous problems with cycle parking around the main station. There are just not enough places, because cyclists don't always take their bike home, they leave the bike and take the train. Take a look at midnight, all the official parking is full up with someones iron rubbish.
[Big Rant:/]
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Old 04.07.2014, 10:50
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Re: A "friendly neighbour" moved my bicycle twice

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Verkehrssteur is a tax on your vehicle based on engine size and in some cases CO2 emissions. It is not road tax.
It certainly is a road tax.

Tom
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