Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Complaints corner  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05.08.2014, 13:23
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
junkeitch has no particular reputation at present
Media Markt - Fraud [Not Fraud - Warranty Issue]

My girlfriend has a very fancy ultra book from Media Markt. She took out all the full insurance and it is still under warranty. When the machine locked up last week, she took it to MM for fixing. They spent a few weeks about it, then sent it back, with the hard drive completely wiped and a letter saying they had used her insurance policy to replace the battery. In a few days, the machine failed again. I have just opened it up, to find, the warranty seal was not broken and the old, original battery still in place. They basically committed fraud. I am wondering what to do. Do I call the police? A lawyer? What is the Swiss law? In the UK I'd be tearing flesh off their management team right now....
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05.08.2014, 13:25
Sean Connery's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 5,565
Groaned at 58 Times in 54 Posts
Thanked 7,554 Times in 3,388 Posts
Sean Connery has a reputation beyond reputeSean Connery has a reputation beyond reputeSean Connery has a reputation beyond reputeSean Connery has a reputation beyond reputeSean Connery has a reputation beyond reputeSean Connery has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Media Markt - Fraud

How have they committed fraud?
Have you been back to MM to escalate? You know they don't fix it onsite?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Sean Connery for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 05.08.2014, 13:32
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 22,329
Groaned at 411 Times in 319 Posts
Thanked 17,357 Times in 9,739 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Media Markt - Fraud

You could take it back again, but as you've now opened it you've probably invalidated the insurance cover. Swiss law isn't the same as UK law. If you can't get a satisfactory repair, then getting a replacement is the best you can hope for. Probably the same for UK law, now I come to think about it.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05.08.2014, 13:35
TiMow's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Fribourg
Posts: 9,295
Groaned at 237 Times in 154 Posts
Thanked 12,188 Times in 5,300 Posts
TiMow has a reputation beyond reputeTiMow has a reputation beyond reputeTiMow has a reputation beyond reputeTiMow has a reputation beyond reputeTiMow has a reputation beyond reputeTiMow has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Media Markt - Fraud [Not Fraud - Warranty Issue]

Quote:
View Post
My girlfriend has a very fancy ultra book from Media Markt. She took out all the full insurance and it is still under warranty. When the machine locked up last week, she took it to MM for fixing. They spent a few weeks about it, then sent it back, with the hard drive completely wiped and a letter saying they had used her insurance policy to replace the battery. In a few days, the machine failed again. I have just opened it up, to find, the warranty seal was not broken and the old, original battery still in place. They basically committed fraud. I am wondering what to do. Do I call the police? A lawyer? What is the Swiss law? In the UK I'd be tearing flesh off their management team right now....
Maybe they swapped it for a new/refurbished one - hence an empty HD and warranty seal in place.

Remember you can't jump in with both feet, if one is already in your mouth.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank TiMow for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 05.08.2014, 13:37
bigblue2's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Glarus
Posts: 8,082
Groaned at 484 Times in 403 Posts
Thanked 14,715 Times in 5,780 Posts
bigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Media Markt - Fraud

you have to be *REALLY* careful with MM and there 'fixes' we had a scooba floor washer that broke, something broke in the tank and you could see it washing around inside, that caused it to leak.

We took it back to MM and they wanted everything inc battery to send away to be 'fixed', I made them sign something saying the battery was included as I couldn't work out why they would need the battery to replace the tank, anyway sure enough when it came back the battery was missing, we pointed that out and they eventually sent us 'our' battery, of course it wasn't as it was really old and battered whereas ours was only about a week old.

The 'repair' was a total joke, looked like a 5 year old had prised apart the tank and stuck it back together with superglue, only getting the superglue everywhere else but where it was needed.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05.08.2014, 14:02
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
junkeitch has no particular reputation at present
Quote:
View Post
How have they committed fraud?
They claim to have put in a new battery and they didn't. That is the definition of fraud, claiming to do something you didn't do. Organised lying.

Quote:
Have you been back to MM to escalate? You know they don't fix it onsite?
Of course, I am trying to get it up their customer service ladder. But I don't want them to wiggle out of it. Yes, I am dealing with their head office

Quote:
View Post
Maybe they swapped it for a new/refurbished one - hence an empty HD and warranty seal in place.

Remember you can't jump in with both feet, if one is already in your mouth.
The laptop is quite battered and clearly the original one. It has SDD, so the didn't just swap over the hard drive.

They _could_ have replaced the warranty seal, but a quick check of the battery serial number confirms it is the original one. I wouldn't say these things if I didn't have water-tight proof.

Quote:
View Post
you have to be *REALLY* careful with MM and there 'fixes' we had a scooba floor washer that broke, something broke in the tank and you could see it washing around inside, that caused it to leak.

We took it back to MM and they wanted everything inc battery to send away to be 'fixed', I made them sign something saying the battery was included as I couldn't work out why they would need the battery to replace the tank, anyway sure enough when it came back the battery was missing, we pointed that out and they eventually sent us 'our' battery, of course it wasn't as it was really old and battered whereas ours was only about a week old.

The 'repair' was a total joke, looked like a 5 year old had prised apart the tank and stuck it back together with superglue, only getting the superglue everywhere else but where it was needed.
I'm sorry to hear that. I would normally repair things myself, but this was under full warranty and insurance, and when you pay for extra cover, you expect a good service

Last edited by MusicChick; 05.08.2014 at 14:07. Reason: merging consecutive posts
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank junkeitch for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 05.08.2014, 14:39
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 12,783
Groaned at 99 Times in 88 Posts
Thanked 19,576 Times in 8,681 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Media Markt - Fraud [Not Fraud - Warranty Issue]

Quote:
They claim to have put in a new battery and they didn't. That is the definition of fraud, claiming to do something you didn't do. Organised lying.
They may be lying but, is it really fraud?

The correct legal definition of fraud can be found in Art. 146 Swiss Criminal Code
Quote:
Fraud
1 Any person who with a view to securing an unlawful gain for himself or another wilfully induces an erroneous belief in another person by false pretences or concealment of the truth, or wilfully reinforces an erroneous belief, and thus causes that person to act to the prejudice of his or another's financial interests, is liable to a custodial sentence not exceeding five years or to a monetary penalty.
2 If the offender acts for commercial gain, he is liable to a custodial sentence not exceeding ten years or to a monetary penalty of not less than 90 daily penalty units.
3 Fraud to the detriment of a relative or family member is prosecuted only on complaint.
It is not fraud if you had no finacial loss.

Accusing someone of fraud, when it is not is called libel or defamation.
Art. 173 Swiss Criminal Code defines it as:
Quote:
Defamation
1. Any person who in addressing a third party, makes an accusation against or casts suspicion on another of dishonourable conduct or of other conduct that is liable to damage another's reputation,
any person who disseminates such accusations or suspicions,
is liable on complaint to a monetary penalty not exceeding 180 daily penalty units.
2. If the accused proves that the statement made or disseminated by him corresponds to the truth or that he had substantial grounds to hold an honest belief that it was true, he may not be held guilty of an offence.
3. The accused is not permitted to lead evidence in support of and is criminally liable for statements that are made or disseminated with the primary intention of accusing someone of disreputable conduct without there being any public interest or any other justified cause, and particularly where such statements refer to a person's private or family life.
4. If the offender recants his statement, the court may impose a more lenient penalty or no penalty at all.
5. If the accused is unable to prove the truth of his statement, or if it is shown to be untrue, or if the accused recants his statement, the court must state this in its judgment or in another document.
My message: Be careful with words. Some members can tell you stories...

Last edited by Guest; 20.08.2014 at 12:39. Reason: Removing user name
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 05.08.2014, 15:30
mirfield's Avatar
Moddy Wellies
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 8,711
Groaned at 53 Times in 47 Posts
Thanked 9,828 Times in 3,613 Posts
mirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Media Markt - Fraud [Not Fraud - Warranty Issue]

Quote:
View Post
when you pay for extra cover, you expect a good service
Haha. That's funny. Made my day, that did.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank mirfield for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 05.08.2014, 16:51
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Seebach
Posts: 45
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 25 Times in 10 Posts
beatnick has no particular reputation at present
Re: Media Markt - Fraud [Not Fraud - Warranty Issue]

I have the same problem with my ultrabook (HP Spectre 13) bought in April from MM. It's totally dead and I'll be taking it back to the branch tonight. In view of your issues, I'll ask for my money back as my first option.

To be continued...
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05.08.2014, 16:52
bigblue2's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Glarus
Posts: 8,082
Groaned at 484 Times in 403 Posts
Thanked 14,715 Times in 5,780 Posts
bigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Media Markt - Fraud [Not Fraud - Warranty Issue]

Quote:
View Post
I have the same problem with my ultrabook (HP Spectre 13) bought in April from MM. It's totally dead and I'll be taking it back to the branch tonight. In view of your issues, I'll ask for my money back as my first option.

To be continued...

not a chance, they where iffy when I bought a USB drive that was dead and taken back within 20 minutes, wanted to send it off after tying to format it etc (and failing) in store
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank bigblue2 for this useful post:
  #11  
Old 06.08.2014, 11:53
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Seebach
Posts: 45
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 25 Times in 10 Posts
beatnick has no particular reputation at present
Re: Media Markt - Fraud [Not Fraud - Warranty Issue]

Indeed you're right, it's going back to HP for repair. 2-3 weeks until it comes back apparently.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06.08.2014, 12:02
cricketer's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: near zurich
Posts: 1,196
Groaned at 29 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 1,051 Times in 427 Posts
cricketer has a reputation beyond reputecricketer has a reputation beyond reputecricketer has a reputation beyond reputecricketer has a reputation beyond reputecricketer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Media Markt - Fraud [Not Fraud - Warranty Issue]

I wouldn't touch this shop with a bargepole.
Some years ago I bought a VHS recorder which after taking it home found it did not work. Straight back to the shop 1 hour later - they said it would have to be sent away for repair and it would take 6 weeks. It had only been in my possession less that an hour or so!!
I demanded a replacement or refund - no way they said.
So I made a huge scene in the shop shouting , gesticulating wildly and generally being an a**hole.
Got my money back on the spot
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank cricketer for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 06.08.2014, 12:04
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Seebach
Posts: 45
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 25 Times in 10 Posts
beatnick has no particular reputation at present
Re: Media Markt - Fraud [Not Fraud - Warranty Issue]

Any suggestions for an electronics store with good customer service? I heard Digitec was pretty bad too...
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06.08.2014, 12:09
mirfield's Avatar
Moddy Wellies
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 8,711
Groaned at 53 Times in 47 Posts
Thanked 9,828 Times in 3,613 Posts
mirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Media Markt - Fraud [Not Fraud - Warranty Issue]

If I understand it correctly, the difference here and, say, UK is that in UK it is the retailer's responsibility not to sell faulty goods (Sale of Goods Act), whereas in Switzerland the responsibility lies back with the manufacturer. Anything else is just goodwill from the shop.

I can sort of see why (why should a shop lose out to something that's not their fault), but it definitely serves the business, rather than the consumer.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06.08.2014, 13:43
basher's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 958
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 1,463 Times in 514 Posts
basher has a reputation beyond reputebasher has a reputation beyond reputebasher has a reputation beyond reputebasher has a reputation beyond reputebasher has a reputation beyond reputebasher has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Media Markt - Fraud [Not Fraud - Warranty Issue]

Quote:
View Post
They may be lying but, is it really fraud?

The correct legal definition of fraud can be found in Art. 146 Swiss Criminal Code
..
Yes it is - someone made an unlawful gain (not paying for the repair) by misrepresentation of the truth.
They said that they had done something, when clearly they had not.

Maybe we should give the OP a little more support instead of nit-picking
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 06.08.2014, 13:51
mirfield's Avatar
Moddy Wellies
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 8,711
Groaned at 53 Times in 47 Posts
Thanked 9,828 Times in 3,613 Posts
mirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Media Markt - Fraud [Not Fraud - Warranty Issue]

Quote:
View Post
Yes it is - someone made an unlawful gain (not paying for the repair) by misrepresentation of the truth.
They said that they had done something, when clearly they had not.

Maybe we should give the OP a little more support instead of nit-picking
Then the OP should be going to the police, not an internet forum.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 06.08.2014, 14:09
Nil's Avatar
Nil Nil is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Basel
Posts: 10,356
Groaned at 428 Times in 333 Posts
Thanked 16,045 Times in 6,322 Posts
Nil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Media Markt - Fraud [Not Fraud - Warranty Issue]

Quote:
View Post
If I understand it correctly, the difference here and, say, UK is that in UK it is the retailer's responsibility not to sell faulty goods (Sale of Goods Act), whereas in Switzerland the responsibility lies back with the manufacturer. Anything else is just goodwill from the shop.

I can sort of see why (why should a shop lose out to something that's not their fault), but it definitely serves the business, rather than the consumer.
Wow, that is lame at best for the customer who just bought it. It is amazing to see how the same store act differently depending of the country they are in.

We bought lots of stuff at Media Markt Spain and the customer service is amazing. One month return policy and so on...

So here anytime you buy something, it is left on luck to have a good product or not?

Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 06.08.2014, 14:14
Texaner's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zentralschweiz
Posts: 2,047
Groaned at 99 Times in 89 Posts
Thanked 2,985 Times in 1,430 Posts
Texaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Media Markt - Fraud [Not Fraud - Warranty Issue]

Quote:
View Post
...So I made a huge scene in the shop shouting , gesticulating wildly and generally being an a**hole.
Got my money back on the spot
Sometimes that's what you have to do. I got similarly louder and louder in a Swisscom shop as they tried to tell me they couldn't solve my problem with their service. When other customers started taking notice, they suddenly remembered that they could solve it.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 06.08.2014, 14:27
MsWorWoo's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Winti
Posts: 1,922
Groaned at 57 Times in 37 Posts
Thanked 3,148 Times in 1,182 Posts
MsWorWoo has a reputation beyond reputeMsWorWoo has a reputation beyond reputeMsWorWoo has a reputation beyond reputeMsWorWoo has a reputation beyond reputeMsWorWoo has a reputation beyond reputeMsWorWoo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Media Markt - Fraud [Not Fraud - Warranty Issue]

Quote:
View Post
If I understand it correctly, the difference here and, say, UK is that in UK it is the retailer's responsibility not to sell faulty goods (Sale of Goods Act), whereas in Switzerland the responsibility lies back with the manufacturer. Anything else is just goodwill from the shop.

I can sort of see why (why should a shop lose out to something that's not their fault), but it definitely serves the business, rather than the consumer.
You say that, but when I bought a faulty computer from Comet it took weeks to get a refund and then they sold on the same unit to someone else. Luckily she found my number and name in the box so she could call me and I sent all the corespondance I'd had to her. So yeah, some companies in the UK did knowingly sell faulty goods.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank MsWorWoo for this useful post:
  #20  
Old 06.08.2014, 15:02
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Baden area
Posts: 337
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 353 Times in 165 Posts
chrisIDS has an excellent reputationchrisIDS has an excellent reputationchrisIDS has an excellent reputationchrisIDS has an excellent reputation
Re: Media Markt - Fraud [Not Fraud - Warranty Issue]

Quote:
View Post
Any suggestions for an electronics store with good customer service? I heard Digitec was pretty bad too...
Brack.ch. Excellent. Had a Logitech keyboard a while ago; one of the keys broke off. I took it back and it was replaced on the spot - no discussion.

I purchased a cover with a pop-out backlight for a Sony E-reader last year (as a gift), but the recipient of the gift could not get the backlight to work (neither could we). So, I took it back to Brack and that they sent off for repair as they had no more in stock. A couple of days later, I had to write them an Email sheepishly stating that we had actually bought it from Digitec. No worries, they said, it's with the supplier now. A week or so later the repaired item was sent back to us by A-Post (it works now) and with NO CHARGE!

Felt like sending the chap a bottle of wine.

Brack plus-points - five minutes drive away from work plus nice discount from work too. Order before 10:00am and I can pick it up at lunchtime [and then struggle to survive the next few hours at work before I can get home and play with whatever I've bought].
__________________
- Thanks
Chris
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank chrisIDS for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
advice, fraud, laptop, law, media markt




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Room fraud msb86 Housing in general 2 05.01.2013 01:23
Passport crime/fraud Guest General off-topic 26 11.02.2012 22:02
Card Cloning Fraud Acomakent Finance/banking/taxation 10 10.02.2012 20:10
Fraud xfreakx Complaints corner 17 10.07.2008 10:20


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:52.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0