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Old 06.11.2014, 19:08
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Switzerland: The most BORING place. WARNING: Long complaining rant...

This thread was started by a troll who has since been banned. However, many members put a lot of time and thought into responding and the mod team felt the information could still be useful for future readers. The posts by the troll have been removed, but the replies remain as if he/she were still around.

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Note - If you reply after post #214, you're not replying to a specific person but rather to the topic in general.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 09.11.2014 at 17:42.
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Old 06.11.2014, 22:52
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Re: Switzerland: The most BORING place. WARNING: Long complaining rant...

Welcome dear- glad you are enjoying it.

What next for you then. Bye- hope you are very happy wherever you go next.

Just wondering though, why recently marry a Swiss here, if you've come to the conclusion a long time ago- after living in 3 major Swiss cities- that it is an awful place. Am I missing something?
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Old 06.11.2014, 23:01
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Re: Switzerland: The most BORING place. WARNING: Long complaining rant...

No my foreing husband came here for quality of life - he is happy, welcome, well integrated and has lots of friends- in rural Switzerland even. He's actually lost quite a lot of money by coming here. But he doesn't mind.

Honestly, I am very sorry you are hurting and unhappy- but I am not totally sure the 'country' or 'the Swiss' (whoever they are)- are totally responsible for your own personal situation. I sincerely wish you the best. Will your husband be happy to leave and go with you back to Canada or elsewhere? Hope you find a way to make it work and turn your life around,, here, there, or anywhere.
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Old 06.11.2014, 23:03
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Re: Switzerland: The most BORING place. WARNING: Long complaining rant...

Amazing first post and I have to admire you for the way you put over your point of view.
I fear that the reactions you are about to receive - from the certain EF members (who must be thinking it`s Christmas come early) - may well slightly balance your opinion of `us` being a lot better than `them`.
For what it`s worth I think a lot of your sentiments are in some way shared . . . maybe not as strongly as you though.
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Old 06.11.2014, 23:03
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Re: Switzerland: The most BORING place. WARNING: Long complaining rant...

Foreigners, eh? Why can't they be more like the Canadians?
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Old 06.11.2014, 23:05
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Re: Switzerland: The most BORING place. WARNING: Long complaining rant...

Oh this one will run and run...

One small point of order.. you're not complaining that Switzerland is boring, but that the native Swiss are boring..which is different. I would also hesitate to suggest you're probably more likely to be mixing with the more conservative, middle class elements of society.

I would agree that the 'average' middle class Swiss citizen is 'typically' a 'bit' reactionary. But they are everywhere. There's probably a normal distribution of national 'bourgeois boringness' and, yes I'd put the Swiss at a tail end... but it's a pretty flat curve..
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Old 06.11.2014, 23:08
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Re: Switzerland: The most BORING place. WARNING: Long complaining rant...

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I know now I am not the only one to have these experiences of Zurich as a foreigner. Good luck making a happy expat bubble!
Fixed that for you.

Also, the UN stuff is in Geneva, which is in a completely different planet, as they say.
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Old 06.11.2014, 23:09
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Re: Switzerland: The most BORING place. WARNING: Long complaining rant...

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Old 06.11.2014, 23:11
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Re: Switzerland: The most BORING place. WARNING: Long complaining rant...

My late wife was also Canadian (from Tronna), she came here for love.

I came here (from the US) because I liked Switzerland, (and was the only place outside of Japan at the time doing what I wanted to do), and wanted to move here (26 years ago).

I've been to Canada, it's BORING.

Current wife is a local, she is NOT BORING.

How old are you, twelve?

Tom
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Old 06.11.2014, 23:12
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Re: Switzerland: The most BORING place. WARNING: Long complaining rant...

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I apologize for my brash opinions, I just have nowhere to voice them. I certainly can't be brutally honest to any locals here. i feel like i am dying here. It's honestly the most isolating, stifling place I've ever lived.

I'm trying to understand why Switzerland is rated the top place in the world for expats, socially etc??? I really don't get it!!!
I quite like it.


But then I don't live amongst rich middle class tossers.
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Old 06.11.2014, 23:33
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Re: Switzerland: The most BORING place. WARNING: Long complaining rant...

I quit felt that way before leaving again for the USA .
I am as we speak looking at tickets to make the move back....all the things I hated I miss most. I am sure it is a culture shock going back to CH but at least now we know what we had there.
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Old 06.11.2014, 23:40
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Re: Switzerland: The most BORING place. WARNING: Long complaining rant...

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I recently talked about my impressions about Switzerland with a visiting Canadian friend. We were on the train and nearby us, two Swiss were listening unabashedly. They made snorts and looked deeply offended by our quiet comments. They were really straining to listen and straining for the chance to be offended.

I think the Swiss on the train had every right to be offended. You are acting like a dinner party guest who tells the host what you actually think of the food. Honesty is not an excuse for rudeness. We are all guests here. I don't have a problem with a country being proud of its culture and wanting to preserve it. You are perfectly entitled to despise the culture, but if you do, maybe you shouldn't live here.


You mentioned that you have read all the books on Swiss culture - so that must include Diccon Bewes' Swiss Watching. Since reading it (and learning a little bit of Swiss history from it) I have begun to notice Swiss quirkiness and to find it endearing.


I hope you can find something to enjoy, in what many of us think is a rather wonderful country.
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Old 06.11.2014, 23:42
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Re: Switzerland: The most BORING place. WARNING: Long complaining rant...

In general, I agree with your comments. However, stick it out. Over the years (or decades in our case) you cannot help but make 1 or 2 close Swiss friends. So now we have our handful of Swiss and foreigner friends, it's all we need. The cold anonymous Swiss just kind of fade into the background.. extras sitting in the seats on the tram who don't have a speaking part in our play.
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Old 06.11.2014, 23:52
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Re: Swiss life has made me a raving lunatic

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The reason foreigners come here is for economic reasons
Economisto, is this YOU?

Tom
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Old 06.11.2014, 23:54
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Re: Switzerland: The most BORING place. WARNING: Long complaining rant...

dear zombie

i'm native swiss - to some extent i have to agree with a lot of the points you rise. on the other side, it can't be that bad, right? i don't want to start country x is better than country y, but i think your expectations/habits/way of live are/is far off from the ones in switzerland. i don't mean this in a mean or offensive manner but more to try to explain why i think you feel that way.

switzerland is far from beeing perfect, but is it really so unlivable?
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Old 06.11.2014, 23:55
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Re: Switzerland: The most BORING place. WARNING: Long complaining rant...

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i don't want to start country x is better than country y
I do!

100 reasons why Switzerland is better than Canada:

1) There are fewer Canadians here.

I reckon I can leave it at that, actually...
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Old 07.11.2014, 00:10
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Re: Switzerland: The most BORING place. WARNING: Long complaining rant...

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My aim now is to surround myself with expat friends - not at all what I wanted when I came here.
This is a plan that looks good on first sight, unfortunately it isn't a silver bullet either.

You'll find it easy to connect with expats. We are all in the same shoes here. We share the same gripes (more or less). In the same town, we're probably all being pissed off by the same traffic camera and the same creepy old lady who watches us like Sauron from her tower of darkness. We can all laugh at some Bunzli douchecanoe who couldn't help but remind us that on friday the 12th of March, the banana peels go into the specially designated trash can. You will find many friends amongst expats. As the years go on, you'll find some very close friends too.

Unfortunately, you'll eventually come to notice a sad trend. Namely, that your expat friends have this uncanny tendency to eventually leave Switzerland and you are left behind with nothing much but the cliched New Year's best wishes email (which comes 2 weeks late) and the occasional fond memory of pub crawls and friday shenanigans. You'll sometimes stop and think about the fun you had together and whether you'll ever meet again. And what if you do? Will they still be the same person? Will you still have anything in common? When you run into a long lost buddy at the Singapore airport while you are bleary eyed waiting for your connecting flight to Australia, will you have anything else to share with them other than a casual "So how are things on your end? Not too bad. Oh that's good to hear, listen, I gotta run but let's catch up next time.".

I've been here for longer than I'd like to admit, and I tell you that it doesn't help that I had all in all 2 dozen good friends if most of them live all over the globe now. The bleak reality is that expats are mobile. We are mobile and can move on a whim. That's why we are here right now. We are a jittery lot and we are quite happy to follow the white rabbit if it leads us to a new and exciting place. Moving is kind of like tobacco. You try it first and it tastes yuck. You try it twice and you are still coughing. You try it three times and you suddenly feel energized. Then before the fourth time comes around, you already feel excited even before it happens.

By all means, make friends with expats. If there is one thing that applies to all of us is that we are all a bunch of bloody weirdos with a staggering array of peculiarities. You'll never be bored. Just don't expect it to last, because that way lies disappointment when we eventually move on to greener pastures.

<melancholic rant/>
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Old 07.11.2014, 00:10
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Re: Switzerland: The most BORING place. WARNING: Long complaining rant...

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It was a hard decision to move here, but my husband's job was less portable than mine. I have lived in 4 countries for my professional work, in Asia and in Europe, and I was stunned how hard it was, and still is, to adapt here. I thought I could manage the culture shock as I have done in the past quite easily in non-westernized countries, but Switzerland took me by awful surprise, because I thought it would be the easiest of all adaptations. It took me months to figure out








what were the differences, they are at first subtle. I agreed to immigrate because I too have images of Switzerland as the neutral haven, postcard perfect, cute "smallness", cheese, chocolate and international UN organizations. I thought it would be easier adapting with an "insider" husband but actually, it was worse. Only I went through the shock. I remain an outsider in HIS inside world. Observing the Swiss culture in their inside world is not much different - they are still reserved, rigid, formal, xenophobic and based on old ties. I have read nearly every book available on Swiss culture (and there are not surprisingly MANY books dealing with the culture shock from this strange lot).

I will never feel at home. my situation accelerated local friendships because I am married to a Swiss and I tried very hard. Learning to speak German has helped but it does not change a culture! It is not like the personality is completely 180 degrees different once you break the shell... all the qualities you want for say, a secure bank/banker but it doesn't exactly make you want to dance on the table with them does it. And it does take a long time for them to crack a smile at any joke (just forget any english wordpuns). I tell my husband often how I miss a good laugh. First time as an expat in any country that I am watching Youtube and DVD comedy shows just for a laugh, because I seem to be STARVED of a good laugh here.

Yes there are 101 examples of the unfriendliness, the narrow-minded insularity, the smugness, the male chauvinism, anti-Semitism, anti-Turk, anti-Balkan, anti-EU - you name it, it's anti-so-leave-us-in-our-mountains mentality! I've come to explain the Swiss that it's their lack of experience and fear of change - those who don't experience any upheaval have intense fear of facing anything new! The Swiss as a bunch are conservative, tight-knit and suspicious of foreigners. One commented on the male chauvinism - I wholeheartedly agree. I feel like I am in a time capsule and women here have mindsets like the 1950s. Remember women's right to vote was only in 1971 and the last remaining canton was forced to allow women to vote only in 1990!!!! This says a lot. I too have never experienced such disrespect and chauvinism until I came here. I think my problem is that I am working in a Swiss company under male Swiss dinosaurs and this makes my exposure to society here very narrow and the first time in my life I see a glass ceiling and it is painful. I am planning to leave this company for an international one and I do not want to work again under a Swiss boss. The boring rigid environment is not improving my impressions and negative generalisations about the Swiss (which are becoming fixed!) and it is affecting my marriage.

it's useless to "integrate". The Swiss don't really want you to integrate, they see even 2nd or 3rd generations here as foreigners or newcomers.

Switzerland has a completely different approach than Canada's (or the US) embrace of multiculturalism and equality. My aim now is to surround myself with expat friends - not at all what I wanted when I came here. I find most of my husband's friends "nice" but the most bland, uninspiring and conforming. If you want inspiration, look outward and internationally and you'll see there are a lot of newcomers here with the same impressions. The Swiss are too busy looking inward and protecting their "good life".

I too appreciate the safety and the fact that trains run on time. That's just about it. Just looking out of the window at that bloody great big grey lake fills me with a kind of hopeless, dreary loathing. Mountains, lakes, winter sports blah blah blah - you know what? THERE ARE MOUNTAINS AND LAKES ALL OVER THE WORLD. This does not make a "paradise", as many Swiss seem to believe. I don't know how people can claim theirs is the best country in the world when they've had no experience living in other countries (much less got out of their little Swiss valley) to make such a comparison. David Hampshire in his book "Living and Working in Switzerland" call this country ROBOTIC, which seems a lot closer to reality.

I'll add one more thing. Be cautious to whom you complain about Switzerland. I don't appreciate zealous nationalism of any kind and I was surprised to learn how flag-waving the Swiss are. I recently talked about my impressions about Switzerland with a visiting Canadian friend. We were on the train and nearby us, two Swiss were listening unabashedly. They made snorts and looked deeply offended by our quiet comments. They were really straining to listen and straining for the chance to be offended. What is interesting is that these were two young adults, rather hick Swiss. The young Swiss are just as nationalistic, it's not just the old farts with all the rules who call police for any noise past 10 pm etc. If an immigrant complained about Canada and I was eavesdropping, I would see it as his or her right to do this, that I might learn a new perspective. Here they just think we expats are ungrateful and those who don't like it should leave (because they're not interested in changing). The Swiss are fiercely proud of the sterile lackluster (BUT rich, cosy) environment they've created. It is best to complain to other foreigners because you'll greatly offend a Swiss by giving your honest appraisal.

I know now I am not the only one to have these experiences of Switzerland as a foreigner. Good luck making a happy expat bubble!

Swiss don't make anything except watches and chocolates , all of which are overpriced and overrated (and you can get these anywhere). The food here is atrocious. The film "Schweizer macher" is nearer to reality than the Swiss believe and explores how the people "police" each other. In rural villages people have lived there 20 years and are still considered outsiders.

it is a golden cage, Switzerland and now just feel sorry for the Swiss as they have lots of money but no souls.

************************************************** ****





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Just some of your Points



Yes there are 101 examples of , the narrow-minded insularity, anti-Semitism, anti-Turk, anti-EU - you name i

Narrow-minded insularity can be found everywhere, hostility against Jews is an old European Problem, Switzerland is possibly one of the most PRO-Turkish countries in Western Europe. There is no other European Country where the Population in popular votes approved more intra-European Agreements than Switzerland, which Shows that Switzerland is very PRO EU




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the Swiss that it's their lack of experience and fear of change - those who don't experience any upheaval have intense fear of facing anything new! The Swiss as a bunch are conservative, tight-knit. I feel like I am in a time capsule and women here have mindsets like the 1950s.
.

THE Swiss have lots of experience in changing things and few have fears about it. And quite many changes came about in public votes. As seen in countless vote-decisions the Swiss are not conservatives but progressive and rather leftwing while women in the USA tend to have mindsets reminding of the 1950ies
---






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it's useless to "integrate". The Swiss don't really want you to integrate, they see even 2nd or 3rd generations here as foreigners or newcomers.
.

the number of generations does not matter, what matters is the citizenship



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Switzerland has a completely different approach than Canada's (or the US) embrace of multiculturalism and equality. My aim now is to surround myself with expat friends - not at all what I wanted when I came here. I find most of my husband's friends "nice" but the most bland, uninspiring and conforming. If you want inspiration, look outward and internationally and you'll see there are a lot of newcomers here with the same impressions. The Swiss are too busy looking inward and protecting their "good life".
.
-
The USA of course HAS to embrace multiculturalism as a heavy majority are People who either are immigrants or are children and grandchildren of immigrants. But equality in Switzerland is far more heavy than in the USA


Most Swiss are busy looking outwards for innovation and new things




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I don't appreciate zealous nationalism of any kind and I was surprised to learn how flag-waving the Swiss are.


The young Swiss are just as nationalistic,


.

zealous nationalism is what I first saw in the USA. Unfortunately, the SVP is copying US notions with some shocking success



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Swiss don't make anything except watches and chocolates , all of which are overpriced and overrated (and you can get these anywhere). The food here is atrocious. The film "Schweizer macher" is nearer to reality than the Swiss believe and explores how the people "police" each other. In rural villages people have lived there 20 years and are still considered outsiders.
.

- chocolates ? I would not describe 100 grams bars for CHF --.60 as overpriced


Switzerland produces
- instruments
- machinery
- chemicals
- pharmaceuticals
- stationary
- computer components & electricals/electronics
- cheese
- and much more


that chocolates and watches ARE important is clear but to single them out is rubbish


-
-
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Old 07.11.2014, 00:12
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Re: Switzerland: The most BORING place. WARNING: Long complaining rant...

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I do!

100 reasons why Switzerland is better than Canada:

1) There are fewer Canadians here.

I reckon I can leave it at that, actually...
Since one of my daughters has moved to the US, and the other to the Great Grey North (not to be confused with the Great White North), Ticino is now -2 on the Canadian scale!

Tom
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Old 07.11.2014, 00:17
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Re: Switzerland: The most BORING place. WARNING: Long complaining rant...

If you fancy a beer sometime just give a shout, you sound fun.
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