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  #101  
Old 22.04.2008, 16:36
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Re: Migros and COOP - Low quality explained...

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One of my guys is doing his MBA, I've nicked his course book.
How's your Pareto's Principle going?
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  #102  
Old 22.04.2008, 16:40
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Re: Migros and COOP - Low quality explained...

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How's your Pareto's Principle going?
its not in the index!

But then neither is Occam's Razor!

What are they teaching these days..
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  #103  
Old 22.04.2008, 16:45
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Re: Migros and COOP - Low quality explained...

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How's your Pareto's Principle going?
I prefer Godwin's law.

Oops, wrong thread or just too early...
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  #104  
Old 22.04.2008, 16:47
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Re: Migros and COOP - Low quality explained...

Ok, let's bring it on.

What do you think influences price ?

dave

PS: We can discuss confidence-intervals, future volatilities and inverted yield curves later, lets get the basic of economics first.


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One of my guys is doing his MBA, I've nicked his course book.

Anyone wanna know something about quantative analysis?

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sticks and stones may break my bones but unsubstantiated internet posts will never hurt me... Especially ones that have 5 or less words..
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  #105  
Old 22.04.2008, 16:53
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Re: Migros and COOP - Low quality explained...

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Ok, let's bring it on.

What do you think influences price ?

dave

PS: We can discuss confidence-intervals, future volatilities and inverted yield curves later, lets get the basic of economics first.
Funny, I thought my local Migros stocked nearly everything. Is the inverted yield locally sourced? How does one prepare volatilities, does it have lots of vitamin B?
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  #106  
Old 22.04.2008, 16:58
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Re: Migros and COOP - Low quality explained...

They only stock the own-brand version of invertedyield. You can buy a pack of 5 for five times the price of one.

The volatilities are prepared in a similar manner to volavents and are very popular at 1970s dinner parties.

dave


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Funny, I thought my local Migros stocked nearly everything. Is the inverted yield locally sourced? How does one prepare volatilities, does it have lots of vitamin B?
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Old 22.04.2008, 17:01
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Re: Migros and COOP - Low quality explained...

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They only stock the own-brand version of invertedyield. You can buy a pack of 5 for five times the price of one.

The volatilities are prepared in a similar manner to volavents and are very popular at 1970s dinner parties.

dave
Shurley Voila!vonts?
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  #108  
Old 22.04.2008, 17:10
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Re: Migros and COOP - Low quality explained...

Migros/Denner and Coop hold about 83% of the food retail market. They also have a 75% organic food market share which both demonstrates that they're committed to the customer's wishes and that niche players can succeed with specific offers. While I don't think that this applies especially to vegetables and fruits, it should be noted that the Swiss customer in recent years demands for especially high quality, and low price offers. This trend brought us Migros Sélection, Coop Fine Food, Denner Primess, and also Migros Budget, Coop Prix Garantie, and cheap Denner branded products. Between these two developments, the demand for standard quality, average priced food is decreasing. Maybe this phenomenon is linked to some of the bad experiences with vegetables, although I don't have problems with tasteless or old vegetables myself.

As for prices, it's interesting that they vary depending on border closeness. But all in all Coop and Migros' prices are pretty constant through the country, not comparable to the UK market. The main exception are small shops with longer opening times.
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Old 22.04.2008, 17:14
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Re: Migros and COOP - Low quality explained...

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The volatilities are prepared in a similar manner to volavents and are very popular at 1970s dinner parties.

dave
Whilst shopping on my own (Mrs Happy tries to discourage this) I picked up some volavents.

A week later she pointed out the can of mushroon/chicken crap that I also had to buy to fill them...

A week later I made them.

I bite or two later I binned them...

I'm sticking with that ice cream with the flakes in it... the stuff that melts really easily..
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  #110  
Old 22.04.2008, 17:20
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Re: Migros and COOP - Low quality explained...

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Ok, let's bring it on.

What do you think influences price ?

dave

PS: We can discuss confidence-intervals, future volatilities and inverted yield curves later, lets get the basic of economics first.
Basic economics?

If we are keeping the disucssion to why prices are more in CH than the UK AND that Nev's belief is that the UK is larger with 'more powerful' supermarkets AND using Rice Krispies as the example as i have posted... then nothing more than I have already said!

Or do you have a different opinion as to why? Do you belived prices in the UK are lower because the country is larger, or that the supermarkets buy more?

Please remember, I have only wanted to talk about quality of fruit and veg and was sharing a buyers conversation with a mate. I put the pricing down simply to supply and demand. The Swiss have a reasonably high spare cash and are getting screwed by their supermarkets. There may be other contributory factors but its the quality I know they are being screwed on..
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  #111  
Old 22.04.2008, 17:25
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Re: Migros and COOP - Low quality explained...

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As for prices, it's interesting that they vary depending on border closeness. But all in all Coop and Migros' prices are pretty constant through the country, not comparable to the UK market. The main exception are small shops with longer opening times.
A couple of years ago after I had shopped at the Migros at my local train station on a Sunday, a Swiss friend told me that Migros claimed to have the same prices in all their shops. As I pointed out at the time, the catch there is that the Migros shop in question does not carry nearly as many product lines as the main one (it can't, it's too small) and if you are looking for budget priced pasta you are out of luck.
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  #112  
Old 22.04.2008, 17:30
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Re: Migros and COOP - Low quality explained...

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Whilst shopping on my own (Mrs Happy tries to discourage this) I picked up some volavents.

A week later she pointed out the can of mushroon/chicken crap that I also had to buy to fill them...

A week later I made them.

I bite or two later I binned them...

I'm sticking with that ice cream with the flakes in it... the stuff that melts really easily..
Oh give us a break Mr Happy, surely schitt in a tin tastes schitt in England too, what ever the price!
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  #113  
Old 22.04.2008, 17:31
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Re: Migros and COOP - Low quality explained...

The list of factors you posted can all influence your retail price offering.

A couple of examples from your list:

competition - more there is, the more downward pressure on your prices
frequency of puchase - for seasonal items, depending on your supplier base you may have to multiple source.

We could work through the list and state the factors of that criteria that influence your retail price.

You say that the only relevant one in your scenario (two countries different sizes) is distribution.

Clearly not. In addition to those you have listed there are, just off the top off my non-MBA-head:

economies of scale (market size dependent)
competitive factors (market share of overall market size dependent)
food&safety regs,
national legislation,
import policies and tariffs and other Environmental factors (EU) at play.

A larger country with a larger market could have lower prices for any number of reasons, and to assume that the size of the market is not relevant for this analysis is naive at best.

dave




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Basic economics?

If we are keeping the disucssion to why prices are more in CH than the UK AND that Nev's belief is that the UK is larger with 'more powerful' supermarkets AND using Rice Krispies as the example as i have posted... then nothing more than I have already said!

Or do you have a different opinion as to why? Do you belived prices in the UK are lower because the country is larger, or that the supermarkets buy more?

Please remember, I have only wanted to talk about quality of fruit and veg and was sharing a buyers conversation with a mate. I put the pricing down simply to supply and demand. The Swiss have a reasonably high spare cash and are getting screwed by their supermarkets. There may be other contributory factors but its the quality I know they are being screwed on..
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  #114  
Old 22.04.2008, 17:37
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Re: Migros and COOP - Low quality explained...

Why is every single watch in stores on the Bahnhofstrasse the same price as their next door neighbours
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  #115  
Old 22.04.2008, 17:50
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Re: Migros and COOP - Low quality explained...

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The list of factors you posted can all influence your retail price offering.

A couple of examples from your list:

competition - more there is, the more downward pressure on your prices
frequency of puchase - for seasonal items, depending on your supplier base you may have to multiple source.

We could work through the list and state the factors of that criteria that influence your retail price.

You say that the only relevant one in your scenario (two countries different sizes) is distribution.

Clearly not. In addition to those you have listed there are, just off the top off my non-MBA-head:

economies of scale (market size dependent)
competitive factors (market share of overall market size dependent)
food&safety regs,
national legislation,
import policies and tariffs and other Environmental factors (EU) at play.

A larger country with a larger market could have lower prices for any number of reasons, and to assume that the size of the market is not relevant for this analysis is naive at best.

dave

For those of you interested in more technical aspects - there's an analysis on the reasons for higher prices in CH published by the Swiss Secretary of State of Economics - http://www.news-service.admin.ch/NSB...ents/11646.pdf

I quickly scanned through the doc (only German). They claim prices in CH for imported products are about 20-30% higher than in neighbouring countries. Two key reasons - according to this article - are import limitations and lower competition.

Personally, I tend to disagree with the notion that economies of scale are a large factor in food retail. Sure, they make distribution more complex and reduce purchasing power, but if this was such an important factor also other small countries in Europe should have price levels similar to CH. This is not quite the case.
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  #116  
Old 22.04.2008, 17:52
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Re: Migros and COOP - Low quality explained...

One thing that did surprise me is (we have two people in our office who commute from the UK on a weekly basis ) they can go to any supermarket (or any newsagents in the UK for that matter) and pick up a bar of Lindt chocolate much cheaper than in Coop here in Switzerland.

The first week they were here they stocked up on Lindt chocolate to take home to the poor relatives back in England, starved of quality chocolate, then having done a quick whip round Tesco for a box of tea bags and some HP Sauce for me, found the Lindt chocolate about two-thirds the price of Coop.

We recommended they take Luxembourgeli home as a treat in future instead of the chocolate.
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  #117  
Old 22.04.2008, 17:57
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Re: Migros and COOP - Low quality explained...

Perhaps the megastores in countries such as the UK subsidise their slashed prices with the gazillions of other items for sale which we don't get to enjoy due to our generally smaller stores? eg, travel, cars, funerals, clothes, Pharmacy products (my favourite annoyance: why can't I buy paracetamol in Migros ?) etc. etc.

Surely someone reading this has experience in retail?
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  #118  
Old 22.04.2008, 18:11
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Re: Migros and COOP - Low quality explained...

I know a few FMCG buyers and merchandisers in UK. I will bend their ear.

dave

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Perhaps the megastores in countries such as the UK subsidise their slashed prices with the gazillions of other items for sale which we don't get to enjoy due to our generally smaller stores? eg, travel, cars, funerals, clothes, Pharmacy products (my favourite annoyance: why can't I buy paracetamol in Migros ?) etc. etc.

Surely someone reading this has experience in retail?
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  #119  
Old 22.04.2008, 18:17
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Basic economics?

Do you belived prices in the UK are lower because the country is larger, or that the supermarkets buy more?

Please remember, I have only wanted to talk about quality of fruit and veg
Hapster,
You started this thread along the lines of how the "Brits" like Tescos are at the top of the produce buying pile and that people like Migros and Coop are at the bottom which affects quality and freshness in CH. All I've done is put that in some perspective with some statistics.

Consider the following equation in relation to vegetables:

Twenty million customers weekly + concentration in superstores + 24 hour opening = HIGH TURNOVER = (shorter amount of time on shelf + more frequent re-stocking = increased freshness of in-store produce) + (buying power to reduce cost of purchase + ability to loss lead vegetables to draw punters in to buy higher margin products all of which can be passed on to customer) = fresher vegetables at reasonable prices.

Migros and Coop are large fish in a small pond. They do not have the stock turnover to restock as frequently as mega superstores in the UK. Where they do have superstores in larger towns, my experience is that their freshness is superior to local village outlets and not all that bad if you check before you buy.
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  #120  
Old 22.04.2008, 18:22
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Re: Migros and COOP - Low quality explained...

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One thing that did surprise me is (we have two people in our office who commute from the UK on a weekly basis ) they can go to any supermarket (or any newsagents in the UK for that matter) and pick up a bar of Lindt chocolate much cheaper than in Coop here in Switzerland.
Most likely because not all Lindt chocolate is as it seems. When last back in the UK I too saw much Lindt available in a many high street shops - however, on checking the back for where it came from (you never know sometimes - and have be caught vice-verser with some British products here) I noticed than instead of the silver "Swiss Made" logo it instead said "Swiss Quality" and in fact been produced in France .

These imports have also seen here, in Basel at least - the canteen people "SV service" sells French Lindt in a number of staff canteens I have visited.

Pat
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