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  #541  
Old 11.06.2008, 11:30
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Re: Swiss Manners

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You jumping to conclusions there. Latest example-
I was looking at some electronic gear on my own. No one around me and then some idiot comes and pushes me out of the way because he wants to look at the same item. That in my opinion is rude just like your post.
From the idiot's perspective: "You know, recently when I was at the electronics store I wanted to see XYZ item but there was this guy standing there for hours and not letting me pass. Now I stare at him to make it clear that I want to see XYZ item, too, but this guy, he's not moving a bit like he's the devil or what. So, in the end I had to push that idiot out of my way."
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  #542  
Old 11.06.2008, 11:31
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Re: Swiss Manners

You're right it is.

dave


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From the idiot's perspective: "You know, recently when I was at the electronics store I wanted to see XYZ item but there was this guy standing there for hours and not letting me pass. Now I stare at him to make it clear that I want to see XYZ item, too, but this guy, he's not moving a bit like he's the devil or what. So, in the end I had to push that idiot out of my way."
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  #543  
Old 11.06.2008, 11:31
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Re: Swiss Manners

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You jumping to conclusions there. Latest example-
I was looking at some electronic gear on my own. No one around me and then some idiot comes and pushes me out of the way because he wants to look at the same item. That in my opinion is rude just like your post.

OK, time out...I was just feeling obstreperous this morning. Sorry you feel offended...I really am a very nice guy (I think).
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  #544  
Old 11.06.2008, 11:34
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Re: Swiss Manners

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Everything is relative.... If you have queued for a flight in any Indian or Egyptian airport then anything Switzerland can throw at you is a breeze. Check-in in for Nigerian Airways at Heathrow regularly used end up with police in riot gear invading one end of Terminal 3, that is what I call "seriously messed". Nothing THAT exciting ever happens here.

People you have lived sheltered lives.....

Again you are making assumptions. How do you know that I am not a Nigerian businessman? I am not saying that Swiss queuing system is the worst but it has lot of room for improvement.
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  #545  
Old 11.06.2008, 11:36
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Re: Swiss Manners

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Again you are making assumptions. How do you know that I am not a Nigerian businessman?
If you were a Nigerian businessman you would always be at the front of the queue with all the practice you had back home, therefore you would have no grounds for complaint. You see, I am not so dumb after all!!!
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  #546  
Old 11.06.2008, 11:36
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Re: Swiss Manners

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OK, time out...I was just feeling obstreperous this morning. Sorry you feel offended...I really am a very nice guy (I think).
Nah! I don't get offended. I was just making you feel guilty LOL If I was offended then I would have groaned at you.
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  #547  
Old 11.06.2008, 11:41
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Re: Swiss Manners

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If you were a Nigerian businessman you would always be at the front of the queue with all the practice you had back home, therefore you would have no grounds for complaint. You see, I am not so dumb after all!!!
Funny thing is that I am really a Nigerian businessman. Would you like to invest some money?
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  #548  
Old 11.06.2008, 11:44
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Re: Swiss Manners

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From the idiot's perspective: "You know, recently when I was at the electronics store I wanted to see XYZ item but there was this guy standing there for hours and not letting me pass. Now I stare at him to make it clear that I want to see XYZ item, too, but this guy, he's not moving a bit like he's the devil or what. So, in the end I had to push that idiot out of my way."
Assuming that the other person really was 'standing there for hours' then the polite thing would be to ask him to move, not shove him out of the way.

Staring at people with the 'evil eye' doesn't count as asking politely, by the way.
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  #549  
Old 11.06.2008, 11:53
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Re: Swiss Manners

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Evilshell's husband doesn't count as genuinely Swiss since he's married to a foreigner (sorry, no offense). I only accept someone by the name of Urs or Beat, born and raised in Uri, Obwalden, Nidwalden or Appenzell as genuinely Swiss. The others have been spoiled by too much foreign influence.
Not genuinely Swiss??? WTF!! I am pretty sure that all Swiss people who have married their partner from another nationality would strongly disagree about "not being Swiss". What makes them Swiss is not which partner they choose but the fact that they have grown up in a Swiss culture, the same as I am genuinely English despite the fact I don't live there anymore.

The type of comments above really surprise me. You come across as someone who thinks the only way to stay true to your culture is to marry into "your own" which I think is extremely sad.

Am I the only one who finds this statement offensive?
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  #550  
Old 11.06.2008, 12:00
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Re: Swiss Manners

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Not genuinely Swiss??? WTF!! I am pretty sure that all Swiss people who have married their partner from another nationality would strongly disagree about "not being Swiss". What makes them Swiss is not which partner they choose but the fact that they have grown up in a Swiss culture, the same as I am genuinely English despite the fact I don't live there anymore.

The type of comments above really surprise me. You come across as someone who thinks the only way to stay true to your culture is to marry into "your own" which I think is extremely sad.

Am I the only one who finds this statement offensive?
You are a very serious person. Are you Swiss?

No, now seriously - when you read back through the last posts on this thread you'll see that everything I've said or written here is just absolute bull****. I was, of course, not serious and assumed this would be quite obvious from the context.
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  #551  
Old 11.06.2008, 12:03
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Re: Swiss Manners

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You are a very serious person. Are you Swiss?

No, now seriously - when you read back through the last posts on this thread you'll see that everything I've said or written here is just absolute bull****. I was, of course, not serious and assumed this would be quite obvious from the context.

No not Swiss.........and not a very serious person either. Having read the whole thread I could see there was a certain amount of p*ss taking but sometimes it's just not funny.
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  #552  
Old 11.06.2008, 12:04
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Re: Swiss Manners

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During long hours of observation I have not seen two Swiss people bump into each other (for reasons of simplicity in my observations I only regard people dressed in traditional Appenzeller or Uri "Trachten" as definitely Swiss).

Now, you would need to show me an example of two Swiss involved in a bumping incident. I also would accept a statement from a genuinely Swiss person (not the triple-A guy) who claims that there is a lot of bumping going on in CH as a mild disproof of my hypothesis (Swiss don't bump).
I have seen many bumping incidents and I can tell you that I have been
bumped into (several times) when just standing. That is a strategy I
sometimes use when I try and try to avoid collision but after the second
failed adjustment give up and let the other person decide totally for
himself/herself. Two seconds later <BUMP>. That strategy makes it all
easier to defuse the blame game and the word "tschuldigung" is sometimes
even heard .

But as yesterday, walking with my three year old daughter hand in hand
I experienced the kind of rudeness mentioned here.
It was not Zürich it was in Horgen and almost no people. We were four
walking (my daughters "Tagesmutter" child minder and her son). The path is
for walking and biking only. Then I see this man walk towards us and I try
to make some space for him to pass by. However he bumps into me, hard.
"HABEN SIE EIN PROBLEM?" he says. I try to tell him that I walk here with a
child it is not easy move out of the way more. "OH DAS ARME KIND". And
then I hear "ARSCH**CH". Why this rudeness? Afterwards I thought, this is
matter of compromise on a public path. Maybe I should have tried harder to
make more space I thought, just so that I could reason to a logical
conclusion/explanation with at least some partial self blame .

However, later the child minder told me that he actually bumped his
shoulder into me on purpose!! I didn't see that because I was busy
watching my daughter when I trying to get her out of the way. In
Stockholm I have never ever experienced this.

Now I don't think that all swiss are like this. But if as few 1 of 100 is
like this (and 99% are polite and friendly), then it is still very possible to
encounter this kind of rudeness from time to time and that is far more than
I was used to.
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  #553  
Old 11.06.2008, 12:30
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Re: Swiss Manners

Just as another slant on this (and as a warning), In Zurich I regularly walk along the lake on the Zürihorn side which is a minefield on a Sunday afternoon when it's packed with families, joggers and cyclists. I have seen on many occasions a man in his late 50s or 60s, fairly tall usually wearing a grubby grey suit, deliberately shoulder charging random people in his path. To be fair, he is muttering and twitching to himself so is probably err.. under the care of the medical profession (for want of a better expression).

He caught me once while I was dawdling along, deep in conversation with my friend; it bloody hurt and knocked the wind out of me. When I turned around to see who the idiot was not looking where he was going he was busily crashing into his next victim. So before the Swiss get blamed for bumping, check it's not the local nutter first.
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  #554  
Old 11.06.2008, 12:44
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Re: Swiss Manners

On the subject of Swiss Manners; I have a problem understanding some posters' accounts of experiences with reactions of Swiss people to various situations. When someone says they were "thrown out of a restaurant" for whatever perceived misdemeanour, is this really being "thrown out"? Where I was brought up, the act of being thrown out of an establishment usually involved the scruff of your neck and finding yourself outside on the pavement with a bootprint on your backside. Has this *honestly* happened to people here? Or at least something with the same ferocity??

Also, this thing about being "screamed at" by neighbours / people on buses / shop assistants, etc. Do people *honestly* scream their objection at the top of their lungs, going red in the face and ending up with a hoarse voice? In all the years I have been here I have never seen this, let alone experienced it.

Just curious, I guess...
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  #555  
Old 11.06.2008, 12:50
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Re: Swiss Manners

There is obviously a certain amount of melodrama applied to accounts, but I have seen people on trains and in the street screaming and shouting at someone in its literal sense.

Getting thrown out of a restaurant is obviously a metaphor. "asked to leave" may be more accurate, but lacks the high-octane drama of the moment. I don't think this is often material to the account though.

dave


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On the subject of Swiss Manners; I have a problem understanding some posters' accounts of experiences with reactions of Swiss people to various situations. When someone says they were "thrown out of a restaurant" for whatever perceived misdemeanour, is this really being "thrown out"? Where I was brought up, the act of being thrown out of an establishment usually involved the scruff of your neck and finding yourself outside on the pavement with a bootprint on your backside. Has this *honestly* happened to people here? Or at least something with the same ferocity??

Also, this thing about being "screamed at" by neighbours / people on buses / shop assistants, etc. Do people *honestly* scream their objection at the top of their lungs, going red in the face and ending up with a hoarse voice? In all the years I have been here I have never seen this, let alone experienced it.

Just curious, I guess...
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  #556  
Old 11.06.2008, 13:21
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Re: Swiss Manners

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Also, this thing about being "screamed at" by neighbours / people on buses / shop assistants, etc. Do people *honestly* scream their objection at the top of their lungs, going red in the face and ending up with a hoarse voice? In all the years I have been here I have never seen this, let alone experienced it.

Just curious, I guess...
Yes I have seen that and experienced that. My guess is that the culture
here approves/tolerates that kind of behavior more then what I am used to
(Sweden). Sometimes I read and hear that is is healthy to let the anger
out, "die Lungen lüften" etc. On the other hand I find it embarassing when
grown adults show less self control than an average five year old.
At one incident, as a bystander, I almost wanted to ask the red faced
screaming person if she thought the woman (she was screaming at) had
hearing problems. But I was so fed up with this and I didn't think it would
make any difference anyway so I just walked away.
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  #557  
Old 11.06.2008, 15:36
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Re: Swiss Manners

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During long hours of observation I have not seen two Swiss people bump into each other (for reasons of simplicity in my observations I only regard people dressed in traditional Appenzeller or Uri "Trachten" as definitely Swiss).

Now, you would need to show me an example of two Swiss involved in a bumping incident. I also would accept a statement from a genuinely Swiss person (not the triple-A guy) who claims that there is a lot of bumping going on in CH as a mild disproof of my hypothesis (Swiss don't bump).
The Swiss do certainly bump into each other!

The other week, I was waiting for an approaching tram. There was a lady walking towards the tram stop, and an older man was walking behind her. Both saw the approaching tram, and both hurried up their pace. However, the older man was bigger and taller, and his hurried pace was much quicker. He somehow knocked over the lady in front of him by tripping her, and she fell hard onto the road. The older man glanced at her to make sure she was ok, and then proceeded to get onto the tram. The lady quickly got up and composed herself, looking a bit embarrassed by the incident. She was in her 50s, so she was rather reserved looking, but her torn stockings and grazed arm made her look a mess.

Whilst on the tram, the lady asked the man who knocked her over for his name. The man must have noticed her bleeding arm and realised that she wanted his name for insurance purposes. He then started saying something like it was an accident, that she was in his way, etc. He quickly got off at the next stop.

Both of them spoke in Swiss German, so this is clearly an incident where one Swiss bumped into another Swiss (albeit, not your typical shoulder-to-shoulder type bumping).
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  #558  
Old 13.06.2008, 05:54
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Re: Swiss Manners

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A frail man suffering from myalgic encephalopathy (ME) died after being punched in a supermarket by a stranger who had mistakenly identified him as a queue-jumper.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle4124582.ece

I know it happened in London but it is a prime example of what happens when people don't have basic manners and resort to physical agression. Poor guy got killed for no bloody reason.
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  #559  
Old 13.06.2008, 07:54
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Re: Swiss Manners

Unfortunately that is happening more and more in the UK and it has nothing to do with bad manners, but more an underlying aggression which is becoming far more prevalent and is becoming a frequent answer to any issues. By putting this down to bad manners I fear that you are making it out to be a far more insignificant problem than it is.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...ye-poetry.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...r-brother.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...ix-months.html
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  #560  
Old 13.06.2008, 08:29
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Re: Swiss Manners

It has more to do with 24-hour rolling news desperate for stories than the sea-change in behaviour. Someone peeling an apple with a knife will receive headline treatment in the current climate.

dave


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Unfortunately that is happening more and more in the UK and it has nothing to do with bad manners, but more an underlying aggression which is becoming far more prevalent and is becoming a frequent answer to any issues. By putting this down to bad manners I fear that you are making it out to be a far more insignificant problem than it is.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...ye-poetry.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...r-brother.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...ix-months.html
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