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  #681  
Old 19.08.2008, 17:51
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Re: Swiss Manners

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No. Like a European nation with no industrial revolution...
But there was an industrial revolution in Switzerland. At least in history books: time period 1815-1848
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  #682  
Old 19.08.2008, 17:51
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I thought I was the only one that found Nev's statement a bit funny. Must be the Zurich location I work in and live near.
(and the Swiss colleagues, how important it is for them to tell stories about 2-week vacation trips with friends in Ferraris and BBQ parties with lots of champagne and BMW 850's that are leased etc.)
We're talking about your typical Swiss lifestyle here. There's an awful lot of Switzerland outside Zurich. And an awful lot of folks who don't drive Porches/Ferraris/BMW 850's to champagne fuelled BBQs. Either you need to get around more or I do. Both of us can't be right.
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  #683  
Old 19.08.2008, 17:54
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Not to mention the endless stream of Mercs, BMW's and Audi's that are flying around.
They're called taxis!
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  #684  
Old 19.08.2008, 17:56
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Re: Swiss Manners

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Good question.

I have certainly become much ruder since moving here and had to prove my rudeness to become Swiss...
Aha, I always thought it's the expats!

No, serious. It's a pity you became rude. I don't like rude people and I think it's not necessary. I mean I could get along without being rude so far.
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  #685  
Old 19.08.2008, 18:38
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Re: Swiss Manners

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since there are so manx expats here in switzerland, how do you know that all that " rude people" are swiss ???


For sure , i don't understand some behaviours in that country, but I can't say the swiss are rude.
I don't think anyone says or claims here that all rude people are swiss or that all swiss are rude for that matter. I also don't think that anyone tries to claim that they are scientific or even have a solid ground regarding this topic. But several see similar pattern of a higher number of occasions which could be defined as "absurd"/"rude" here compared to what they have experienced and experiencing at home. Yes it is subjective, but only because it is subjective it doesn't mean it is completely unfounded.
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  #686  
Old 19.08.2008, 18:40
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Re: Swiss Manners

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(and the Swiss colleagues, how important it is for them to tell stories about 2-week vacation trips with friends in Ferraris and BBQ parties with lots of champagne and BMW 850's that are leased etc.)
I am left wondering what's so special about "BBQ parties with lots of champagne"? I ain't exactly worth bragging about.

I could image Swiss bragging "we had a BBQ party with not just Würst but with loads of meat on the BBQ"
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  #687  
Old 06.09.2008, 16:24
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Re: Swiss Manners

I agree with DaveA that if you remember that indeed Switzerland was a nation of farmers, it helps to understand some behaviour we notice in daily life. Not to generalise that 'the Swiss are rude', more often they simply just don't know any better - it's more innocence really than lack of good will in my view.

Our experience is that Swiss men certainly act less gentleman-like in offices/public transport as in other countries we compare with. They tend to be rushed with getting in- and out of trams&trains, and when encountering a lady in a corridor walking towards the same door, hardly ever would step aside and let the lady pass first.
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  #688  
Old 06.09.2008, 17:26
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Re: Swiss Manners

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I agree with DaveA that if you remember that indeed Switzerland was a nation of farmers, it helps to understand some behaviour we notice in daily life. Not to generalise that 'the Swiss are rude', more often they simply just don't know any better - it's more innocence really than lack of good will in my view.

Our experience is that Swiss men certainly act less gentleman-like in offices/public transport as in other countries we compare with. They tend to be rushed with getting in- and out of trams&trains, and when encountering a lady in a corridor walking towards the same door, hardly ever would step aside and let the lady pass first.
For once I agree with DaveA too !!!

And then I do think we are quite a "rude" bunch, a bit clumsy as well, and for the Swiss men, yes they aren't the most elegant or behaved either. And someone said somewhere the Swiss girls are a terrible lot to handle !!! I absolutely agree with that too !!!
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  #689  
Old 06.09.2008, 17:28
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Swiss girls are a terrible lot to handle !!!
I find them much easier to handle one at a time.
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Old 06.09.2008, 20:00
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Re: Swiss Manners

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I find them much easier to handle one at a time.
But much more fun 3 at a time...
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  #691  
Old 06.09.2008, 20:05
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Re: Swiss Manners

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I find them much easier to handle one at a time.
That is especially true if you are a shop assistant on the first day of the sales season.
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  #692  
Old 06.09.2008, 21:09
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Re: Swiss Manners

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I agree with DaveA that if you remember that indeed Switzerland was a nation of farmers, it helps to understand some behaviour we notice in daily life. Not to generalise that 'the Swiss are rude', more often they simply just don't know any better - it's more innocence really than lack of good will in my view.

Our experience is that Swiss men certainly act less gentleman-like in offices/public transport as in other countries we compare with. They tend to be rushed with getting in- and out of trams&trains, and when encountering a lady in a corridor walking towards the same door, hardly ever would step aside and let the lady pass first.
Wow, i see that more as a hunk of bull. A lot of the effects of men not stopping to hold a door open for a Lady, or letting them get in or out of a tram first... has a heck of a lot more to do with the women here demanding "emancipation," then their lack of manners. Being pregnant, i see many people insist on giving me thier seat in a tram, and i appreciate it when they do. Also being a mother of 2, i have seen the stages of people offering to help with the strollers (or buggy). Sometimes i have to ask someone to help and they are always happy to, but i see people offer themselves less and less because women insist that they dont need help. So blaming this "manners" problem all on the men... isnt really fair. Women have just as much fault in the matter as the men do here.
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Old 06.09.2008, 21:12
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Wow, i see that more as a hunk of bull. A lot of the effects of men not stopping to hold a door open for a Lady, or letting them get in or out of a tram first... has a heck of a lot more to do with the women here demanding "emancipation," then their lack of manners ... So blaming this "manners" problem all on the men... isnt really fair. Women have just as much fault in the matter as the men do here.
It is entirely fair.

A gentleman will always offer, even if there is a possibility that a lady might refuse.

'Emancipation' has nothing to do with it: A boor is still a boor whether a woman can vote, drive a car, hold down a career, or not.
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  #694  
Old 06.09.2008, 21:19
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Re: Swiss Manners

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It is entirely fair.

A gentleman will always offer, even if there is a possibility that a lady might refuse.

'Emancipation' has nothing to do with it: A boor is still a boor whether a woman can vote, drive a car, hold down a career, or not.
I really like the way that sounds, but for the sake of arguement,

Wouldnt a gentleman also respect the feelings of women. If he knew that women found it belittling to always have thier door opened, wouldnt he resepct her enough to let her do it herself. (if you dont know what i mean by belittling, compare it to... your kid is building a block tower, they want to do it themself, but you intrude because 'you can do it better'.)

PS.... I really think the feminists killed it for the rest of us
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Old 06.09.2008, 21:28
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I really like the way that sounds, but for the sake of arguement,

Wouldnt a gentleman also respect the feelings of women. If he knew that women found it belittling to always have thier door opened, wouldnt he resepct her enough to let her do it herself. (if you dont know what i mean by belittling, compare it to... your kid is building a block tower, they want to do it themself, but you intrude because 'you can do it better'.)

PS.... I really think the feminists killed it for the rest of us
Again, I say this has nothing to do with 'feminism' or 'emancipation' or any other scapegoats - it is simply about good manners.

I try (and often fail - nobody is infallible, after all) to hold the door open for anyone who might be coming behind me, male or female - their gender is less important than the fact that they are fellow human beings sharing my immediate environment.

If somebody is struggling with a pushchair, then, likewise, I try to offer help. Usually that person is female, but I wouldn't withdraw my help just because the person happens to be a man.

Giving up seats on the bus is another example - why on earth shouldn't I stand up to let an older person, or a mother with children, sit down? Or to allow a group or a couple to sit together? Again, I'm not suggesting I'm a saint here - I am frequently tired, or engrossed in a book, or simply can't be bothered - but wherever possible, I do try to do the right thing.

None of this has anything to do with gender.

And while you are eagerly criticising your feminist sisters for the faults of the boorish, selfish men of this world, it might be worth considering what they have achieved for all of us, men and women alike.

Personally, I'd rather live in a world where women can have jobs, can vote, can have a certain degree of control over their lives (to the extent that anyone can, at least), and where men are still willing to demonstrate good manners, than in a world where none of this is the case.

Wouldn't you?
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  #696  
Old 06.09.2008, 21:41
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Re: Swiss Manners

Ok, you win. I agree with much of what you said. but i my earliest quote... my biggest issue was that they blamed the bad manners on the Farmers (i blamed it on the women). I have often found Farmers to be more gentlemenly then people in the city... and i am friends with many farmers and families.

To say that switzerland is sons of farmers and thats why they have bad manners, is making oneself a hypocrite. Havent all our countries started off as farms and plantations?


And usually, in a tram, i will see a man get up for an elderly person, more often then not.
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Old 06.09.2008, 21:42
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Havent all our countries started off as farms and plantations?
That's true.

But most countries then became civilised...
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Old 06.09.2008, 21:46
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Re: Swiss Manners

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That's true.

But most countries then became civilised...

Um... what about the West of America
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Old 06.09.2008, 21:52
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Um... what about the West of America
I wouldn't know. I've never been there.
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Old 06.09.2008, 21:55
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Re: Swiss Manners

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I agree with DaveA that if you remember that indeed Switzerland was a nation of farmers
I'm so sick of this cliche. Why is Switzerland any more a nation of farmers than Britain or USA or pretty much any country on this planet? I'm Swiss and no member of my family has ever had anything to do with farming. Not that there's anything wrong with it. Regarding rudeness I'm really surprised we should be the ones who are rude when I experience a lot of behaviour of foreigners as rude for instance when they don't greet you in the hallway.
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