Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Complaints corner  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 16.09.2015, 12:53
MrsSerendipity's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Basel
Posts: 1,649
Groaned at 11 Times in 8 Posts
Thanked 1,416 Times in 704 Posts
MrsSerendipity has a reputation beyond reputeMrsSerendipity has a reputation beyond reputeMrsSerendipity has a reputation beyond reputeMrsSerendipity has a reputation beyond repute
That excluded feeling

Need to vent. Feeling really excluded since I returned to work.

So, I work in a Swiss company with mostly French colleagues. The language of the company and the industry is English.
I’m sure this comes up on EF time and time again but my lack of language skills often leaves me feeling very excluded.

(Yes, I realise the exclusion is my own doing)

Right now, I’m in the middle of my 3rd round of French lessons. So I am learning and trying. My understanding has improved 10 fold in the last year. . . but I’m not at a level to understand all the conversations or to engage fully

I tried not to be offended when they would switch to French, I thought it must be hard for them to have social conversations in English when they are usually all in French. I guessed it was a default reaction to switch back to French.. and I still believe this to be true for the most part…

However, today, one person deliberately switched to French so they could exclude me from the conversation. They were planning a meal out and were checking with each other in French if they should include me… IN FRONT OF ME.


I have a hundred examples of this kind of exclusion but that one happened 30 minutes ago and of course, it bothered me… Hence why I’m posting.
Reply With Quote
The following 8 users would like to thank MrsSerendipity for this useful post:
The following 2 users groan at MrsSerendipity for this post:
  #2  
Old 16.09.2015, 12:56
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: geneve
Posts: 735
Groaned at 287 Times in 110 Posts
Thanked 1,374 Times in 546 Posts
idefix has earned the respect of manyidefix has earned the respect of manyidefix has earned the respect of many
Re: That excluded feeling

Welcome another troll.

You sound like a whiner anyway, so I would exclude you from any lunch arrangement as well.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank idefix for this useful post:
The following 15 users groan at idefix for this post:
  #3  
Old 16.09.2015, 12:59
dodgyken's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Democratic Republic Kenistan
Posts: 10,690
Groaned at 282 Times in 233 Posts
Thanked 19,403 Times in 7,402 Posts
dodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond repute
Re: That excluded feeling

Quote:
View Post
Welcome another troll.

You sound like a whiner anyway, so I would exclude you from any lunch arrangement as well.
Commonly known as Australian
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank dodgyken for this useful post:
The following 2 users groan at dodgyken for this post:
  #4  
Old 16.09.2015, 13:00
MrsSerendipity's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Basel
Posts: 1,649
Groaned at 11 Times in 8 Posts
Thanked 1,416 Times in 704 Posts
MrsSerendipity has a reputation beyond reputeMrsSerendipity has a reputation beyond reputeMrsSerendipity has a reputation beyond reputeMrsSerendipity has a reputation beyond repute
Re: That excluded feeling

Quote:
View Post
Welcome another troll.

You sound like a whiner anyway, so I would exclude you from any lunch arrangement as well.


I must be the worlds most boring troll then!
Reply With Quote
The following 16 users would like to thank MrsSerendipity for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 16.09.2015, 13:05
AbFab's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 7,779
Groaned at 329 Times in 223 Posts
Thanked 10,777 Times in 3,750 Posts
AbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond repute
Re: That excluded feeling

Basel? French?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank AbFab for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 16.09.2015, 13:10
MrsSerendipity's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Basel
Posts: 1,649
Groaned at 11 Times in 8 Posts
Thanked 1,416 Times in 704 Posts
MrsSerendipity has a reputation beyond reputeMrsSerendipity has a reputation beyond reputeMrsSerendipity has a reputation beyond reputeMrsSerendipity has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
View Post
Basel? French?
Yes, french

Quote:
Bollocks to them. Bollocks to them all. You're at work to work, not socialise, but if you do deign to socialise with the miserable bastards, you do it on your terms.


Ignore them where possible, avoid them, stick to work topics, refuse to discuss your weekend or dinner plans or anything else with them. Be polite, but be strong. If they later decide that they want to be your friend, continue to treat them in exactly the same way.


You don't need twats like this in your life. Sure, you have to share an office with them, but that's all. They're nothing to you. Treat them as you'd treat the person who sits next to you on the bus.


Enjoy! (you should!)

Thank you DB, that is exactly what i needed to hear. TBH, i dont need any more friends and my view on work is that it is just that: work.
Tomorrow, think il go out and meet a friend for lunch. Change of sceen is always good.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 16.09.2015 at 19:48. Reason: merging consecutive replies
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 16.09.2015, 13:33
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: That excluded feeling

Quote:
View Post
Basel? French?
It's almost like it is on the border with France or something. Crazy talk.
Reply With Quote
The following 8 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 16.09.2015, 13:39
hairybadger's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Geneva area
Posts: 540
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 747 Times in 300 Posts
hairybadger has a reputation beyond reputehairybadger has a reputation beyond reputehairybadger has a reputation beyond reputehairybadger has a reputation beyond repute
Re: That excluded feeling

Can you not see it as an opportunity to improve your French? Sure, lessons are great, but conversational skills will come along leaps and bounds if you're in situations where you're forced to use the language.

Disclaimer: it took me several years of working in a French-speaking office to become totally comfortable with French in all situations. Even today I just switch off if the conversation turns to something I have no interest in. Quite often this is cheese.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank hairybadger for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 16.09.2015, 13:05
dodgyken's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Democratic Republic Kenistan
Posts: 10,690
Groaned at 282 Times in 233 Posts
Thanked 19,403 Times in 7,402 Posts
dodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond repute
Re: That excluded feeling

Over to you Oscar

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank dodgyken for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 16.09.2015, 13:10
Halfasleep's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Zzzzug
Posts: 292
Groaned at 8 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 154 Times in 80 Posts
Halfasleep has earned some respectHalfasleep has earned some respect
Re: That excluded feeling

ive noticed in a few companies that the french (the less international type) tend to only want to talk to each other and of course only in french, despite them being the minority in the company. They dont like to talk in English anyway.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Halfasleep for this useful post:
  #11  
Old 16.09.2015, 19:47
OSueco's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Aargau
Posts: 1,469
Groaned at 317 Times in 193 Posts
Thanked 1,265 Times in 624 Posts
OSueco has a reputation beyond reputeOSueco has a reputation beyond reputeOSueco has a reputation beyond reputeOSueco has a reputation beyond repute
Re: That excluded feeling

Quote:
View Post
Welcome another troll.

You sound like a whiner anyway, so I would exclude you from any lunch arrangement as well.
...complaining happened in the complaints corner ...where of course you are not allowed to whine about things...shocking...
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 16.09.2015, 20:14
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 1,986
Groaned at 69 Times in 52 Posts
Thanked 5,074 Times in 1,802 Posts
crazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: That excluded feeling

there is a French guy in my office. no matter what he tries to say in English, I pretend not to be able to understand him. it's great sport, actually.

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank crazygringo for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 16.09.2015, 12:59
Island Monkey's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wallis
Posts: 4,423
Groaned at 74 Times in 43 Posts
Thanked 4,307 Times in 2,049 Posts
Island Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond repute
Re: That excluded feeling

Quote:
View Post
However, today, one person deliberately switched to French so they could exclude me from the conversation. They were planning a meal out and were checking with each other in French if they should include me… IN FRONT OF ME. [/FONT]
Ouch

.... if they are like that do you really want to go?

.... you should have said something like (my French is bad) "Vouz savez, je comprends un peu français!!"
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Island Monkey for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 16.09.2015, 13:08
MrsSerendipity's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Basel
Posts: 1,649
Groaned at 11 Times in 8 Posts
Thanked 1,416 Times in 704 Posts
MrsSerendipity has a reputation beyond reputeMrsSerendipity has a reputation beyond reputeMrsSerendipity has a reputation beyond reputeMrsSerendipity has a reputation beyond repute
Re: That excluded feeling

I said No to the invite.
Prefer not to be invited for the sake of an invite.

Also conscious of the fact that my presence forces people to speak English. Not exactly relaxing for them either.
Im sure it probably feels like more work.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 16.09.2015, 13:09
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: That excluded feeling

Bollocks to them. Bollocks to them all. You're at work to work, not socialise, but if you do deign to socialise with the miserable bastards, you do it on your terms.


Ignore them where possible, avoid them, stick to work topics, refuse to discuss your weekend or dinner plans or anything else with them. Be polite, but be strong. If they later decide that they want to be your friend, continue to treat them in exactly the same way.


You don't need twats like this in your life. Sure, you have to share an office with them, but that's all. They're nothing to you. Treat them as you'd treat the person who sits next to you on the bus.


Enjoy! (you should!)
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 16.09.2015, 13:22
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: That excluded feeling

Quote:
View Post
Thank you DB, that is exactly what i needed to hear. TBH, i dont need any more friends and my view on work is that it is just that: work.
Tomorrow, think il go out and meet a friend for lunch. Change of sceen is always good.
Perhaps setting up lunch twice or three times a week with friends would be a good idea. That way you can stay in contact with your friends, get a breather from work and also have company while eating.
Also, your colleagues will surely notice that you don't hang around miserably because they deigned not to invite you, and even if that might annoy them, it shows them that you're a confident lass.

Remain polite and civil at work, go to lunch with whoever you please, and know that it is better to voluntarily spend time with those you cherish, giving you a new "push" for the later work hours, than it is to forcibly go out with people who don't want you around anyway, and return to work annoyed that you'll now have to spend the rest of the day with them as well.

Stay cordial with colleagues, but turn lunch into "your" thing and enjoy it.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #17  
Old 16.09.2015, 13:15
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: That excluded feeling

I'm sure it's hurtful to experience that. Don't have any suggestions besides trying to use your lunch time to see people you actually enjoy spending time with. Maybe someone from another department or friends working nearby?
I'm sorry members here have called you a troll. As I've already said to another member, unfortunately this forum isn't always supportive and new members tend to get scared away. I hope you stick around. There are lots of kind members here. Wishing you well.

Quote:
View Post
Need to vent. Feeling really excluded since I returned to work.

So, I work in a Swiss company with mostly French colleagues. The language of the company and the industry is English.
I’m sure this comes up on EF time and time again but my lack of language skills often leaves me feeling very excluded.

(Yes, I realise the exclusion is my own doing)

Right now, I’m in the middle of my 3rd round of French lessons. So I am learning and trying. My understanding has improved 10 fold in the last year. . . but I’m not at a level to understand all the conversations or to engage fully

I tried not to be offended when they would switch to French, I thought it must be hard for them to have social conversations in English when they are usually all in French. I guessed it was a default reaction to switch back to French.. and I still believe this to be true for the most part…

However, today, one person deliberately switched to French so they could exclude me from the conversation. They were planning a meal out and were checking with each other in French if they should include me… IN FRONT OF ME.


I have a hundred examples of this kind of exclusion but that one happened 30 minutes ago and of course, it bothered me… Hence why I’m posting.
Reply With Quote
The following 12 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #18  
Old 16.09.2015, 13:25
mirfield's Avatar
Moddy Wellies
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 8,715
Groaned at 54 Times in 48 Posts
Thanked 9,623 Times in 3,557 Posts
mirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond repute
Re: That excluded feeling

I shouldn't need to, but I can vouch for the OP. Knowing them as a person, and having first-hand knowledge of the company, it's a pretty believable scenario.

And sure, there are several companies in Basel with a high proportion of French employees.
Reply With Quote
The following 15 users would like to thank mirfield for this useful post:
  #19  
Old 16.09.2015, 13:29
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: That excluded feeling

Quote:
View Post
I shouldn't need to, but I can vouch for the OP. Knowing them as a person, and having first-hand knowledge of the company, it's a pretty believable scenario.

And sure, there are several companies in Basel with a high proportion of French employees.
Perhaps you need to invite her for lunch
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #20  
Old 17.09.2015, 09:40
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 7,991
Groaned at 334 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 10,326 Times in 5,452 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: That excluded feeling

Quote:
I spent a few months in Spain with my schoolgirl Spanish. The people went out of their way to include me and i left there with better Spanish and a love for my new found friends. And they were the ones with the conversation books. I told them i had three fiancès. Meaning three nephews!! But we all laughed at my faux pas. Especially with my boyfriend sitting beside me!!
While there probably are differences specific to a country, more often than not tourists are treated differently than immigrants. You know, many think immigrants steal jobs (unemployment rate in Spain was above 10% almost all of the last twenty years), while tourists typically have money, which does talk, etc. yaddayadda

And of course people tend to generalizing, which you seem to do, too.

Quote:
I tried not to be offended when they would switch to French, I thought it must be hard for them to have social conversations in English when they are usually all in French. I guessed it was a default reaction to switch back to French.. and I still believe this to be true for the most part…
Indeed. This is the standard reaction for everybody, at least in Europe, with a common mother tongue. Not to exclude somebody, but rather, because usually people are most comfortable using their mother tongue.

Things do get lost in translation. For instance, your colleagues may have checked if anybody already invited you to join the dinner already. IMHO you should address the issue directly, in english to avoid misunderstandings, preferably in a non-confrontational manner.

What keeps from doing that? You got nothing to lose!
And you might be in for a very pleasant surprise
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Excluded from a lesson NotAllThere Education 23 08.10.2014 00:38
Excluded treatments and franchise? meloncollie Insurance 39 03.02.2014 00:32
That special feeling MacGregor's Daughter Daily life 73 02.01.2013 19:53
I just got that Christmas feeling! transition Daily life 21 24.10.2010 14:02
feeling frustrated sabs Complaints corner 28 17.11.2008 19:55


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 13:19.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0