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Old 18.06.2017, 19:31
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Re: Huge Doctor rechnung [bill]

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No idea, as I've never worked there. Common wisdom would indicate not!

But that's not the point: birth control is a medical matter and should be covered by health insurance, in my opinion.
I'm sure the Swiss authorities will be glad to have your opinion.

Birth control is not medical it's a life style choice, you don't want kids, don't screw or purchase contraception or go to bed with orange juice *


* hold the glass between you knees, nobody likes sleeping on the wet patch
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  #62  
Old 18.06.2017, 19:40
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Re: Huge Doctor rechnung [bill]

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I'm sure the Swiss authorities will be glad to have your opinion.

Birth control is not medical it's a life style choice, you don't want kids, don't screw or purchase contraception or go to bed with orange juice *


* hold the glass between you knees, nobody likes sleeping on the wet patch
Right.

Except there are perfectly valid *medical* reasons to use birth control (like ovarian cysts, endometriosis, PCOS, anemia, acne, migraines, hormone deficiencies, among others). Not sure if orange juice would help there (aside from the bonus vitamin C)?

We obviously have very different opinions on the subject. Let's just agree to disagree.
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  #63  
Old 18.06.2017, 19:46
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Re: Huge Doctor rechnung [bill]

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Right.

Except there are perfectly valid *medical* reasons to use birth control (like ovarian cysts, endometriosis, PCOS, anemia, acne, migraines, hormone deficiencies, among others).
I´reckon it will be covered for by the insurance?
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Old 18.06.2017, 19:51
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Re: Huge Doctor rechnung [bill]

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I´reckon it will be covered for by the insurance?
Related treatments and consultations are covered, yes. Birth control as is, no.

Anyway, I seem to have unwittingly derailed OP's thread with a chance remark. That wasn't my intention, so let's not get bogged down further into an insurance debate.

On a positive note, the quality of healthcare I've received in Switzerland has been stellar so far.
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Old 18.06.2017, 19:56
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Re: Huge Doctor rechnung [bill]

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Right.

Except there are perfectly valid *medical* reasons to use birth control (like ovarian cysts, endometriosis, PCOS, anemia, acne, migraines, hormone deficiencies, among others). Not sure if orange juice would help there (aside from the bonus vitamin C)?

We obviously have very different opinions on the subject. Let's just agree to disagree.
If indeed their is a medical issue, it will be covered then, so no further problem then.
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Old 20.06.2017, 16:25
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Re: Huge Doctor rechnung [bill]

you live in switzerland you earn good money,the hospital staff also earn good money. pay the bill or move to some cheaper country were the service is not so good but the bills are cheaper
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  #67  
Old 21.06.2017, 00:28
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Re: Huge Doctor rechnung [bill]

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Right.

Except there are perfectly valid *medical* reasons to use hormonal birth control (like ovarian cysts, endometriosis, PCOS, anemia, acne, migraines, hormone deficiencies, among others). Not sure if orange juice would help there (aside from the bonus vitamin C)?

We obviously have very different opinions on the subject. Let's just agree to disagree.
*gets on soapbox, takes out notes, glances sternly into crowd*
Almost two-thirds of women who are using birth control in Switzerland are using some form of hormonal birth control, even though it is not free (the logic is that pregnancy is not an illness). The pill is handed out like candy for a whole range of "diseases", often starting in the early teens. And because it is perceived as being so very practical, women stay on the pill for decades. This is changing now as more and more women realise how utterly messed up it is to take hormones 75% (or even 100%) of the time for the potential pregnancy risk being there maybe 10% of the time. Yes, I know, the exact date is hard to pinpoint but still - it is a bit like taking headache medication five days a week just in case you may get a headache on one day. Foolishness. The side effects often only sneak in slowly, so you accept that they are "normal". It may have been a tool of liberation back in the 60ies but now I feel like it is a very lucrative form of control. There is also a whole stack of research showing that it negatively affects libido in many women (oh the irony) or changes how they choose partners if they are on the pill. I understand the "convenience" and that other options are more involved or "less comfortable" if you want them to be as safe.

Still, it annoys me that the default stance is that "the woman is on the pill, end of story", because it really had VERY negative side effects for me (as well as many of my friends, for example, three of my friends had deep vein thrombosis despite not smoking and being a normal weight - one of them had it when she was 17) and I didn't realise this until after many years of being miserable. I thought I was just a moody, depressed drama queen who felt like everyone was out to get her and who was angry all the time. Turns out that taking hormones turned me into that person and because I was given them at age 13 because of acne and then just carried on, everyone else thought that's who I was too. It took about two years after stopping the pill for me to stop feeling the effects.

So, because I have spent quite a bit of time researching the alternatives, I edited your original post and crossed out the conditions you suggested using hormones to improve where I definitely feel other things are better suited, and put the ones where trying other things first may be a better choice.

Ovarian cysts can actually go away by themselves, you do need to monitor them and obviously pay close attention to anything changing or feeling unusual. They can have annoying effects but one has to differentiate between "an inconvenience for a few months" and "needs immediate attention".

PCOS can be affected by other things such as an underactive thyroid, what you eat (a friend has discovered that sugar, dairy and wheat make her symptoms worse) and other factors. Worthwhile looking into those first. Taking agnus castus (the real plant stuff, not some homeopathy lark, called Mönchspfeffer in German) is potentially beneficial, and there is evidence that it helps those with PMS.

Anemia, I have had severe anemia and again, diet and lifestyle as well as the occasional infusion of Ferritin or taking liquid Ferritin solutions is definitely a better choice. I accept that it is often linked to painful periods but figure out when they are, take loads of magnesium a few days before and Ibuprofen as soon as you feel the slightest twinge and you should be much less affected. Both magnesium and ibuprofen are prostaglandin (the stuff that produces painful cramping) antagonists, so you can stop them before they really get going. Heat patches also help, or the classic hot water bottle.

Acne - try cutting out dairy and sugar, it makes a huge difference to many people's skin. Stress is another factor that can make it worse, and for hormonal acne, try agnus castus (that stuff is da bomb, fo shizzle). I also have one of those blue LED devices - it actually works. If it's really bad, go see a dermatologist.

Migraines - funny you mention that, loads of women I know had migraines will taking the pill and stopped having them when they stopped. For me, it was another thing entirely, I was put on a treatment of a high dose of vitamin B2 and magnesium (that too is da bomb). Google it, it works for over 50% of migraine sufferers, may take up to a month though - for me it was after a week, went from twice-weekly migraines to the occasional one every few months. Other causes include tension, histamines in food, bad sleeping habits, not wearing (the right) glasses, monosodium glutamate, the weather... So basically, pretty much ANYTHING but your hormones.

Not sure what you mean with the "among others" but there too you have loads of other options.

Hormone deficiencies - here too, the origin maybe a different one, so it is worthwhile investigating before going for hormones as a treatment; however, this is one where I would tend to say that you are probably not going to have much choice but to take hormones if other causes are excluded.

Endometriosis - the one case where I won't argue with just doing what the heck it takes to make it more bearable. Friends who suffer from this have described the pain and discomfort in way that make me instinctively curl up. If hormones can help, then they should be covered by health insurance. I would still explore what I can do to alleviate symptoms but I understand that this is often not possible depending on each case.
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Old 21.06.2017, 00:39
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Re: Huge Doctor rechnung [bill]

If you are looking for a way of not having a baby that is covered by insurance, there is always abortion.

I was discussing contraceptive options with my doctor about 6 years ago because I was no longer allowed to be on the pill. Well, I thought I would be doing that. She said don't use anything. And when I said so, what if I get pregnant - I was old enough to be not hugely likely to get pregnant, but still menstruating for years to come - she said have an abortion. Just like that. You could have knocked me over with a feather. I followed her advice and I didn't get pregnant, but I found it all rather hair-raising.
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Old 21.06.2017, 00:42
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Re: Huge Doctor rechnung [bill]

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*gets on soapbox, takes out notes, glances sternly into crowd*
Yes, very good wherever the attitudes are shifting away from the pill being the default, and contraception being solely the woman's responsibility.

A few years ago, I overheard a bunch of young folk (male and female) talking. They'd evidently just come out of school and while they waited for their tram, they were discussing their biology lesson, including pros and cons of various methods of contraception. It was an open and very encouraging multi-directional conversation.

Suddenly, one of the boys who had been silent during the whole discussion, blurted out: "But why would anyone want to do that? If I have a girlfriend or wife and love her, or even if I just know a girl and like her enough to have sex with her, why would I expect her to take a pill every day to change her hormones? I mean, we're teenagers, and our hormones are messing with us quite enough already! I wouldn't want any woman to swallow anything that could mess hers up even more. Just be a man use a condom. They don't seem to have any particular bad side-effects."

Last edited by doropfiz; 21.06.2017 at 00:45. Reason: typo
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Old 21.06.2017, 14:33
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Re: Huge Doctor rechnung [bill]

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Yes, very good wherever the attitudes are shifting away from the pill being the default, and contraception being solely the woman's responsibility.

A few years ago, I overheard a bunch of young folk (male and female) talking. They'd evidently just come out of school and while they waited for their tram, they were discussing their biology lesson, including pros and cons of various methods of contraception. It was an open and very encouraging multi-directional conversation.

Suddenly, one of the boys who had been silent during the whole discussion, blurted out: "But why would anyone want to do that? If I have a girlfriend or wife and love her, or even if I just know a girl and like her enough to have sex with her, why would I expect her to take a pill every day to change her hormones? I mean, we're teenagers, and our hormones are messing with us quite enough already! I wouldn't want any woman to swallow anything that could mess hers up even more. Just be a man use a condom. They don't seem to have any particular bad side-effects."
Yeah, have not just heard this attitude among teenagers, guys in their twenties also quite frequently seem to have this view. Good for them. I think if anything if you are in a relationship and for whatever reason get carried away and don't rubber up, the morning after pill is always an option, even if it does mean getting a high dose of hormones - I'm sure having this as a one off is less harmful than all the time. As long as it really is just a one off.

While there had been talks of finding some equivalent solution for men, they abandoned the drug trials for the male birth control shots because of the side effects - which were pretty much on par with what female hormonal birth control causes, but without the life-threatening elements such as the risk of thrombosis. So it's fine for women to put up with those side effects but men should not have to deal with them. Great. Of course, I would prefer nobody to have to take any risks just to avoid having an unwanted pregnancy, but it does seem unfair to have it as one-sided as it is now.
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