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  #381  
Old 17.01.2017, 17:37
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

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Don't ask rhetorical questions if you expect a meaningful reply.
There's nothing rhetorical in pointing out holes in someone else's logic.
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I give you a hint nonetheless:
Think about the differences between biological facts and the necessities arising therefrom vs willful decisions and their consequences.
So what? Are you suggesting that all car accidents are wilful or none? All pregnancies are wilful or none?

You argued that discrimination was acceptable due to increased costs, now you're suggesting there's exceptions. So what it the logic?
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  #382  
Old 17.01.2017, 17:40
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

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there is actually an individual assessment for health insurance.
not sure how that would work for a car insurance. that risk is more complicated to assess.
No there is not! (individual assessment for health insurance).
And if it is compulsory by law I don't wanna pay more than guys (with all their prostata-, potency-, God knows what problems.

I don't see why woman cost more than men apart from the pregnancy thing which I mentioned earlier and was ignored completly by the "gentlemen of the creation" in this thread.

<<Then discriminating against women of childbearing age in job interviews is OK because of the increased costs that demographic brings with it?>>
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Don't ask rhetorical questions if you expect a meaningful reply.
You call that a retorical question?! Illegal or not, it happens constantly.
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  #383  
Old 17.01.2017, 18:05
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

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There's nothing rhetorical in pointing out holes in someone else's logic.

So what? Are you suggesting that all car accidents are wilful or none? All pregnancies are wilful or none?

You argued that discrimination was acceptable due to increased costs, now you're suggesting there's exceptions. So what it the logic?
Do you say driving a car is not a willful decision?

I'm not arguing for or against how pregnancy and its cost are paid for. The reason usually given is that I mentioned. Whether you like it or not isn't really a concern of mine.

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You call that a retorical question?! Illegal or not, it happens constantly.
The illegal thing is asking about plans on getting pregnant. Assuming the candidate has plans in that direction and decide that employing her isn't worth the risk of that actually happening, isn't.

Assuming that the potential employer has followed that line and declined the candidate because of that is just that, an assumption.
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  #384  
Old 17.01.2017, 18:14
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

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Do you say driving a car is not a willful decision?
And having sex is not a wilful decision?
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I'm not arguing for or against how pregnancy and its cost are paid for. The reason usually given is that I mentioned. Whether you like it or not isn't really a concern of mine.
So you don't know what you're talking about?

You could have told me that earlier and saved me the bother of trying to make sense of that contradictory nonsense of yours.
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  #385  
Old 17.01.2017, 18:30
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

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You could have told me that earlier and saved me the bother of trying to make sense of that contradictory nonsense of yours.
Don't assume. Simples.
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  #386  
Old 17.01.2017, 18:39
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

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Don't assume. Simples.
Or you could post without giving the air that you know what you're talking about?
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  #387  
Old 17.01.2017, 22:04
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

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Or you could post without giving the air that you know what you're talking about?
Nope, I'm not going to imitate you.
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  #388  
Old 17.01.2017, 22:41
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

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Nope, I'm not going to imitate you.
Heh. Don't be childish. You were pontificating on what is righteous discrimination and what is not and when this was challenged you claimed you weren't going to bother to explain yourself to us mere mortals.
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  #389  
Old 19.01.2017, 21:24
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

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no
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  #390  
Old 19.01.2017, 22:14
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

No I did not feel particularly unwelcomed but sometimes i felt that some people are not ready to engage people other than Schweizer
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Old 19.01.2017, 22:18
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

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And having sex is not a wilful decision?
Depends how much i had to drink usually.
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  #392  
Old 20.01.2017, 11:13
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

To answer the OP: Yes, I do feel unwelcome. But it's understandable: Unfettered welcomeness is not part of the cultural makeup of Switzerland. In fact, welcomeness is at direct odds with the cultural makeup of the country.

The whole country is like one large gated community, and gated communities are usually created to maintain the living conditions within the enclosure, and to keep undesirables out. These are the principles of privacy and isolation, so I honestly don't expect anything out of the Swiss from a welcomeness standpoint. Why would anyone expect open arms and warm embrace from a country that, for instance, (rightly or wrongly) chooses to actively have no global moral compass?

On a personal level, I’ve had numerous interactions with my Swiss neighbors, friends, and colleagues that have been absolutely lovely. The lack of welcomeness certainly isn’t coming from these particular people. It’s just all the other things you notice, especially as a person coming from a country which has a “melting pot” identity and for whom change is not only normal but thought of as a good thing.

Yes, I’m getting out ASAP, but it’s not because I think Switzerland is terrible. I just think my personal makeup is incompatible with the country’s core principles. This mismatch doesn’t make CH good or bad, right or wrong.
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  #393  
Old 20.01.2017, 11:23
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

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Unfettered welcomeness is not part of the cultural makeup of Switzerland. In fact, welcomeness is at direct odds with the cultural makeup of the country.
On balance, though, "unfettered welcomeness" sounds bloody awful and super icky.

Being a Brit, I'm quite happy I don't get smothered by people I hardly know with some saccharine-sweet kind of fake friendliness.

Maybe I'm just a grumpy cow, though...
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  #394  
Old 20.01.2017, 12:02
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

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I'm quite happy I don't get smothered by people I hardly know with some saccharine-sweet kind of fake friendliness.
True. I hate that too. I'm talking about genuine warmth and caring from strangers. Some cultures have more of it, some have less of it.
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  #395  
Old 20.01.2017, 12:37
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

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Heh. Don't be childish. You were pontificating on what is righteous discrimination and what is not and when this was challenged you claimed you weren't going to bother to explain yourself to us mere mortals.
Nonsense. I gave you the reason why your definition is useless.

If you call voicing an opinion pontificating you should first and foremost look in the mirror my friend.
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  #396  
Old 20.01.2017, 12:40
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

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True. I hate that too. I'm talking about genuine warmth and caring from strangers. Some cultures have more of it, some have less of it.
The "cultures" thing is a bit more fluid here, though, isn't it? In Zurich, you have a fair to middling chance that the person standing next to you being stand-offish or rude or staring at you is not Swiss.

To be fair, I've had my days of sitting on a tram with a face like a slapped arse after a long day in the office with absolutely no intention of acknowledging anyone in my field of view. Unfriendly? Yes. Swiss? No. Cultural? No - just pissed off.

I'm not defending anyone in particular but I just find that it's more complex than "the Swiss aren't friendly".
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  #397  
Old 20.01.2017, 12:46
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

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To answer the OP: Yes, I do feel unwelcome. But it's understandable: Unfettered welcomeness is not part of the cultural makeup of Switzerland. In fact, welcomeness is at direct odds with the cultural makeup of the country.

The whole country is like one large gated community, and gated communities are usually created to maintain the living conditions within the enclosure, and to keep undesirables out. These are the principles of privacy and isolation, so I honestly don't expect anything out of the Swiss from a welcomeness standpoint. Why would anyone expect open arms and warm embrace from a country that, for instance, (rightly or wrongly) chooses to actively have no global moral compass?

On a personal level, Iíve had numerous interactions with my Swiss neighbors, friends, and colleagues that have been absolutely lovely. The lack of welcomeness certainly isnít coming from these particular people. Itís just all the other things you notice, especially as a person coming from a country which has a ďmelting potĒ identity and for whom change is not only normal but thought of as a good thing.

Yes, Iím getting out ASAP, but itís not because I think Switzerland is terrible. I just think my personal makeup is incompatible with the countryís core principles. This mismatch doesnít make CH good or bad, right or wrong.
LOL. you should have added to the post that you are from the US.
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  #398  
Old 20.01.2017, 12:53
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

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LOL. you should have added to the post that you are from the US.
I'm not.
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Old 20.01.2017, 13:08
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

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The "cultures" thing is a bit more fluid here, though, isn't it? In Zurich, you have a fair to middling chance that the person standing next to you being stand-offish or rude or staring at you is not Swiss.

To be fair, I've had my days of sitting on a tram with a face like a slapped arse after a long day in the office with absolutely no intention of acknowledging anyone in my field of view. Unfriendly? Yes. Swiss? No. Cultural? No - just pissed off.
True. I have had many train rides like that after a long day at the office In fact I'll likely have one tonight!

People be pissed off in every country. I'm merely relaying the collected experiences of my time here vs. the other countries in which I've lived, and saying I'm not a fit for the way people in Switzerland (Swiss or not) operate. I truly do understand the inclination to be left alone; it's just not who I am as a person.

CH is still a cool place, though! Certainly better than living in other parts of the world!
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Old 20.01.2017, 13:20
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

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Nonsense. I gave you the reason why your definition is useless.
No, you claimed it was rhetorical, a claim that was questioned my more than just me. Never mind; I'm just annoyed that I took what you wrote seriously enough to respond to it in the first place.
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