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  #421  
Old 30.01.2017, 10:14
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

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I think this is a fantastic country and great for children to grow up and appreciate different languages and cultures, diversity and tolerance.

Also there is visible investment in public services unlike the UK. I think we need to tax the rich in the UK to to pay for modern infrastructure, health care and public services - and some flowers in public areas!!


Yes, Children can learn they are all equals here, well some being more equals than others.

As for the UK, you are 200% correct, they should invent a public health system for all, which could be called something like National Health System, investing a lot of money for the public.
As for taxing the rich, let's invent a tax of like above 40% on higher rate incomes like from 43K, it will work, it's 100% sure guarantee!

Ok thanks for that monday lol, that almost compensate for not having found any decent "friday posts" last friday.

Can we come back to reality now, or we have to stay in feckedupLandia?
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  #422  
Old 30.01.2017, 10:16
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

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Careful here, under these circumstances they'll all be moving to Switzerland....
Not if the PM creates a tax free heaven, which is a possibility in current context, and one of the strong cards in the hands of the British...
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  #423  
Old 30.01.2017, 10:55
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

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Not if the PM creates a tax free heaven, which is a possibility in current context, and one of the strong cards in the hands of the British...
I certainly wish them well, we might even get some peace here on EF...
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  #424  
Old 30.01.2017, 10:59
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

The rich tend not to leave when they are taxed. See the example in California. They tend to like where they live as they have their friends there etc. They would generally also prefer living in a cleaner, functioning place so would be glad if the UK invests in public spaces and services. Even a few leave fine there will be enough staying to pay for the common good and stop this horrendous inequality leading to a divided, two tier society.
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  #425  
Old 30.01.2017, 11:06
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

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The rich tend not to leave when they are taxed. See the example in California. They tend to like where they live as they have their friends there etc. They would generally also prefer living in a cleaner, functioning place so would be glad if the UK invests in public spaces and services. Even a few leave fine there will be enough staying to pay for the common good and stop this horrendous inequality leading to a divided, two tier society.
What example in California?

So you propose to tackle income inequality with taxation?

That's like fighting obesity with liposuction.

This thread is about Switzerland in any case.
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  #426  
Old 30.01.2017, 11:36
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

Yes, it is so much better than using income caps. That squashes initiative. People want to earn as much as possible to prove to themselves and others they can do it so capping income is not as good as taxing income.
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  #427  
Old 30.01.2017, 12:42
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

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Yes, Children can learn they are all equals here, well some being more equals than others.
Would you mind to elaborate?
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  #428  
Old 30.01.2017, 15:36
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

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The rich tend not to leave when they are taxed. See the example in California. They tend to like where they live as they have their friends there etc. They would generally also prefer living in a cleaner, functioning place so would be glad if the UK invests in public spaces and services. Even a few leave fine there will be enough staying to pay for the common good and stop this horrendous inequality leading to a divided, two tier society.
Are you sure you're not talking about some sort of middle class? "The rich" care an awful lot about their money...plus they tend not to make friends. Or use public spaces or services.
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  #429  
Old 30.01.2017, 18:22
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

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Even a few leave fine there will be enough staying to pay for the common good and stop this horrendous inequality leading to a divided, two tier society.
Define your (everybody's) common good.

Maybe you could also prescribe some common good..write a political program. Since this does not sound at all recycled.

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Yes, it is so much better than using income caps. That squashes initiative. People want to earn as much as possible to prove to themselves and others they can do it..
Oh, the distant voices from my childhood. Makes me think of Brezhniev....was it? It always gets funny when people try to define the principles of capitalism. Or any other -ism.
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  #430  
Old 30.01.2017, 20:40
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

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I think this is a fantastic country and great for children to grow up and appreciate different languages and cultures, diversity and tolerance. Also there is visible investment in public services unlike the UK. I think we need to tax the rich in the UK to to pay for modern infrastructure, health care and public services - and some flowers in public areas!!
There is visible investment in UK public services... otherwise they'd all be private services by now. See Corsebou's post below re taxation.

Much to the consternation of a large proportion of the locals, my home town recently had a new roundabout statue and lots of landscaping "done" with a great deal of public cash ring-fenced for stuff like flowers. You'd love it. We'd rather have had the local school and health budget raised though.




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Yes, Children can learn they are all equals here, well some being more equals than others.

As for the UK, you are 200% correct, they should invent a public health system for all, which could be called something like National Health System, investing a lot of money for the public.
As for taxing the rich, let's invent a tax of like above 40% on higher rate incomes like from 43K, it will work, it's 100% sure guarantee!

Ok thanks for that monday lol, that almost compensate for not having found any decent "friday posts" last friday.

Can we come back to reality now, or we have to stay in feckedupLandia?
This.

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The rich tend not to leave when they are taxed. See the example in California. They tend to like where they live as they have their friends there etc. They would generally also prefer living in a cleaner, functioning place so would be glad if the UK invests in public spaces and services. Even a few leave fine there will be enough staying to pay for the common good and stop this horrendous inequality leading to a divided, two tier society.
Have you spent much time in the UK recently? There are more than the two tiers. And AFAIK everyone likes living where they have friends.

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Yes, it is so much better than using income caps. That squashes initiative. People want to earn as much as possible to prove to themselves and others they can do it so capping income is not as good as taxing income.
What? Or, because my mother raised me correctly: pardon? Where is income capped in either the UK or CH?

Why are you banging on about public spaces in the UK when this is a thread about CH? It's all very odd.
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  #431  
Old 02.02.2017, 20:08
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

Just to get this off my chest:
1) As non-EU citizen - I had to go through the driving test (after 19 years of driving) to get the CH driving license despite having been allowed to drive on my non-CH driving license for 12 months - where is the logic in that? I felt very humiliated..
2) Drove my car for a while with non-EU driving plates - Was stopped every time I drove by police - inspections sometimes took over half an hour. Despite having been employed in a highly-skilled position, with one Master degree and an MBA from a top 10 university - I was treated as if I was smuggling drugs. Not a great feeling

I am sure others have had similar experiences, but I had to share this
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  #432  
Old 02.02.2017, 21:35
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

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Just to get this off my chest:
1) As non-EU citizen - I had to go through the driving test (after 19 years of driving) to get the CH driving license despite having been allowed to drive on my non-CH driving license for 12 months - where is the logic in that? I felt very humiliated..
2) Drove my car for a while with non-EU driving plates - Was stopped every time I drove by police - inspections sometimes took over half an hour. Despite having been employed in a highly-skilled position, with one Master degree and an MBA from a top 10 university - I was treated as if I was smuggling drugs. Not a great feeling

I am sure others have had similar experiences, but I had to share this
While I fully understand that you're annoyed - highly annoyed - the rules were made by countries and not by amount of phd's.

If your got stopped a lot with foreign number plates, maybe your country is known for laxer rules than we have here.
You could be Trump, if he showed up in a car with Nigerian number-plates be sure he would be controlled
It's all about rules go for everybody - there are no "better people" here in the eyes of the law!
Most of us quiet like that
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  #433  
Old 03.02.2017, 00:17
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

Don't worry, it's like that in any country in western europe. By the way if you look richer there's even more reason to stop you because of tax evasion, in Italy you would have had an harder time I guess.
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  #434  
Old 03.02.2017, 00:45
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

I am in Switzerland almost for a year and met many nice people through many organizations. Some of them become my friend. They have done everything possibly could. Even in the street or in the bar when I meet someone it seems they are very nice and warm. My color or ethnicity doesn't seems matter to them.
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  #435  
Old 03.02.2017, 10:24
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

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Just to get this off my chest:
1) As non-EU citizen - I had to go through the driving test (after 19 years of driving) to get the CH driving license despite having been allowed to drive on my non-CH driving license for 12 months - where is the logic in that? I felt very humiliated.

Jesus, humiliated? Another delicate snowflake, I see. It is common knowledge that you have 12 months to swap your license. It's your own fault for not doing so.

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2) Drove my car for a while with non-EU driving plates - Was stopped every time I drove by police - inspections sometimes took over half an hour. Despite having been employed in a highly-skilled position, with one Master degree and an MBA from a top 10 university - I was treated as if I was smuggling drugs. Not a great feeling
Wow, police are checking non-EU vehicles going across the borders, which are a high risk? WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT IT! And I am SO SHOCKED that they didn't automatically know you were a highly skilled employee with a masters degree from one of the Top 10 universities. They are clearly failing in their job.
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  #436  
Old 03.02.2017, 10:32
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

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Just to get this off my chest:
1) As non-EU citizen - I had to go through the driving test (after 19 years of driving) to get the CH driving license despite having been allowed to drive on my non-CH driving license for 12 months - where is the logic in that? I felt very humiliated..
2) Drove my car for a while with non-EU driving plates - Was stopped every time I drove by police - inspections sometimes took over half an hour. Despite having been employed in a highly-skilled position, with one Master degree and an MBA from a top 10 university - I was treated as if I was smuggling drugs. Not a great feeling

I am sure others have had similar experiences, but I had to share this
Swiss police is not known for kind manners, don't take it personally. I have seen people stopped in the streets and checked, I think they felt even worse than you.
The moment you realise it has nothing to do with you personally you'll start feeling a bit better. Courage!
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  #437  
Old 03.02.2017, 11:05
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

Parental Advisory: the following comment is not popular, facebook friendly, Politically Correct, Bambi-world approve, 10 year old idealistic rated, etc...

Why are you people keeping "thanking" some... how to describe that rather diplomatically...Ok, let's try: some slightly bawbags with balls-skin layer over their eyes who are clearly in their fancy expat bubble or in their honeymoon period, simply because they are writing 4 lines on how people around them are so nice and how they have friends???

Do you realize that most of you have arrived here in your highly protected shelter of expat paradise, having everything or almost everything served on a plate?
-No involvement with taxes or admins (being for most, withdrawal tax system): No opportunity to feel the warm "welcome" you would have received. For the other being above EF poverty rate of 120K (figures from 2015), most likely paying someone to do it for themselves, at least the first few years.

-Housing sorted, or "coach" looking for you and having a set of relations with owners/agencies and can sort you out without problems: Not having feel or experience another layer of "welcomeness" by over friendly locals or nice leaving expats forcing you to buy their overprice dumps. I mean IKEA furniture.

-Poor grasp of local language where you are mixing self pity and proudness for being able to vomit a few german atrocities for ordering "brot". Fair enough, German sounds horrible, not your fault, yet nothing to gloat about for long: Again, how long would it take you to understand the comments you would have heard in the back queue of the bakery of locals commenting on something you done "not the right local way"?

-Gangs or set of individuals who are expats, have no long term friends around and welcoming you simply because you have similarities, and quickly helping you around (because hey, they also arrived a few years ago, almost died from not finding brown sugar and now they can proudly share their expertise): Again, not enjoying real locals welcome who have everything they want and don't need to befriend anyone new, especially an expat (aka a foreigneeeeer). To what frankly, seems normal, you would have behaved the same in your home country, most likely.

-No Involvement with customs or having all done for you and paid by your company. Again, missed opportunity of tanning near the lava flow or welcomeness of the nice and friendly custom officer here to receive you and approve your "legal invasion" (real terms I received, though about sharing the warmth).

While this is true the above does not apply for everyone, yet often you have not even verified the context of these "newcomers" posting 2-3 lines on how everything is wonderful and how everyone are friendly.


So please, get real people!

Having said that there is nothing wrong with expressing feeling "not welcomed in Switzerland". First it depends on the definition of what is being welcome. Clearly I think it's about everything (legal, admin, housing, humans relations...). Clearly some think it's only about their relation with Mme Schprounchz the friendly 80 year old neighbors giving you cookies or with MrGrunt the guy who complained and reported you to federal authorities because you had squeezy floor noises after 8PM.

Second, feeling unwelcome does not feel being miserable, and it's not a contagious illness which should be groaned at or justification to exclude someone in Ellis island (or even Australia).
I personally have enough to backup feeling "very unwelcome" here.
Yet I have a lot of friends (Swiss and non Swiss) who are doing the extra miles for me (like driving 2 hours to pick me, or 1 hour to shopping when my car was out). Yet I actually love and embrace the peace and having less people around. What a blessing not having to walk among human plague and scoundrels, but nice empty forests full of foxes and other critters.
Yet I do survive and do my shopping and smile at the counter lady, I even sometimes have nice encounters with "strangers" (Swiss or Non Swiss), or have received sometimes some acts of kindness (ex someone gave me back my glove in the shop, carrying my luggage...).
Unfortunately I also have regular and excessive interactions which definitely overflow the occasional good behaviors. And I do look "local" and understood the local language, from start. Something which has opened my eyes a little bit faster than others.

So you think it's being welcomed and nice that you have some positive experiences, great for you. I don't think that deserves to be socially or even remotely positively approved by thanking, especially when it's certainly coming from honeymooners.
Maybe have a little more understanding on your surroundings prior to write the Bible and the 10 Commandments.

Just saying.
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  #438  
Old 03.02.2017, 11:13
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

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Jesus, humiliated? Another delicate snowflake, I see. It is common knowledge that you have 12 months to swap your license. It's your own fault for not doing so.
If you come from an EU country, the US or one or two other countries, then yes it is a simple exchange providing you do it within 12 months of arrival.

However for other countries, they do insist on a control drive with an examiner, it's not a test per se, but just to make sure you know how to drive here. If you fail this, then you do have to start again and take a full test like a new driver.

The fact the guy has some piece of paper from some educational establishment means nothing, we're all equal in the eyes of the law.
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  #439  
Old 03.02.2017, 11:44
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

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Parental Advisory: the following comment is not popular, facebook friendly, Politically Correct, Bambi-world approve, 10 year old idealistic rated, etc...

Why are you people keeping "thanking" some... how to describe that rather diplomatically...Ok, let's try: some slightly bawbags with balls-skin layer over their eyes who are clearly in their fancy expat bubble or in their honeymoon period, simply because they are writing 4 lines on how people around them are so nice and how they have friends???

Do you realize that most of you have arrived here in your highly protected shelter of expat paradise, having everything or almost everything served on a plate?
...
Alas, none of that applies to me, I came here to work in a Swiss company in a non-English language environment, having to find a place to live, etc. all on my own.

Expat bubbles didn't exist at the time, either, nor did the internet.

Tom
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  #440  
Old 03.02.2017, 11:49
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

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Jesus, humiliated? Another delicate snowflake, I see. It is common knowledge that you have 12 months to swap your license. It's your own fault for not doing so. :rolleyes
I don't think he missed the deadline for swapping the licence. I think he was questioning the logic of being allowed to drive on his foreign one for up to 12 months with no test and then having to take a test in order to swap it for a Swiss one.
Being humiliated by it was probably going a bit far though.
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