Even after re-reading your 50 word sentence, I would not have understood it as you intended without your explanation.

On the other hand, I moved, and stayed, here simply because I love the place, despite the lower wage.

Tom

I don't think OP is biting the hand that feeds him. He is fed by his own hand that (I hope) works hard for it. Why treat work contract like some kind of charitable endevour on the employer/host culture side? It is not like CH is handing out salaries for free, and mind you, loads of newcomers are welcomed exactly for specialty skill sets they bring. To live under the constant threat of "you better like everything here, or else" weird fears is irrational. And this kind of anxiousness of not fitting in corectly, to the conformist's standard, is unhealthy. And frequent. And nothing to do, as I said before, with foreigners (the reaction some people show has more to do with foreigners not being the norm, not because they would be actually foreign). We got it good, we know how to think outside of the box.

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"L'homme ne peut pas remplacer son coeur avec sa tete, ni sa tete avec ses mains." J.H.Pestalozzi

Yea really . Old saying .If you cant stand the heat get out of the Kitchen When are your leaving ?

Go back some 19 pages and read carefully. Someone already used this card. Not everyone agrees with this sentiment.

MC, sorry to see that you choose to totally misread what I said.

It is a two way thing - and effort is required on both sides.

Agreeing or not . I left Switzerland 50 years ago for Canada . I still can't go in a restaurant and order "Bratwurscht and Roeschti" So I deal with it like with everything ells .
Real problem Only exist in places like Syria

I agree with that, totally.

You could easily say that the ott reaction of hosting culture is biting the feeding hand, too. Of course the effort is needed on both sides, I think OP's point is that he sees none on the other side so he stopped making efforts. Good host won't constantly rub in how inferior their guests are. We aren't guests here, either, we chip in. Good guests won't walk in with muddy shoes and act like yodels, either. I am just saying a) I personally feel lucky here or elsewhere, b) one can interpret things million of ways, and c) it indeed needs effort on both sides. There is quite a bit of hostility against certain cultures here. I agree with OP that Russkies et al. don't have it as cushy as the cute pretend riff-raffing Anglophones have to "put up" with.

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"L'homme ne peut pas remplacer son coeur avec sa tete, ni sa tete avec ses mains." J.H.Pestalozzi

I am nothing but content with my life here. Why are you on EF if you're so happy in Canada? This is for expats in Switzerland.


Cannot wouldn't understand that someone can (partially) agree with OP or other posters despite their own experiences and feelings being different.
After 50 years in Canada his language skills still suck.

Sorry, couldn't resist. This forum makes you. I admit - they always win.

No. No No....That wouldn't be the best idea in the World.

I'm 10mins from Zurich, in the murder capital of ZH, with a bottle of vodka, a chainsaw and a ticket out of here tomorrow, and he's said this to Patsy....

You've seen 'Dexter' haven't you? (Joking...perhaps....)

While flexibility from both sides is helpful it's perfectly clear who has to take the (main) effort when an individual joins an existing group. This is simply part of the human condition.

MC, how long does it take people to even realise there are significant differences between the different regions? How long would you have taken to make a statement like the following:
How many people do you know who feel knowledgeable enough to make such a comment after having worked (i.e. with rather little time to roam freely) here for a mere nine months? What grounds can he base the opinion on if ALL locals, males and females alike, avoid him like the plague?

And of course there's this little gem:
How would *you* react if your better half were sharing his room with some unknown woman? How (un)welcoming would you be?

Sorry MC but you're being had by the latest troll. Or by an ignorant twat. Your pick.

What is it about rich people from shit countries that makes them such horrendous snobs?

It's evident on this thread and I've seen it hundreds of times in real life.

Is it the shock of arriving in a country and discovering that nobody gives a bugger who you are and where you went to university? That the revolting plebs whom you'd dismiss with a wave of the hand back home also have a right to an opinion?

Whatever it is, it stinks.

We're delighted your language skills are better than Cannut's, Greenmount. It's always nice to have something going for you.

Lol
Your posts, sometimes.
The irony. If you dish it out, you have to be able to take it.

Oh, and have a good day. Hope you drank your coffee by now.

Yeah, sorry for being one of those untermensch plebs you so despise, m'lady.

I'll be sure to doff my cap next time I see you approaching. Or should I throw myself on the floor and prostrate myself at your dainty university-educated feet?

Read the opening post ... read few comments ... then reread the opening post again.

Look at the OP's date of joining.

Ah, it all makes sense now. Judging books by their covers? That's it.

Seriously though. You need some time to grow into the system. Life tends not to be as superficial here as elsewhere. Friendships are earned and cultivated. As mentioned several times, Switzerland can be slow, so the pace of life here has to be adjusted accordingly to be able to fit in. Cannot achieve it all to be positive within just several months. It takes years.

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This is uncalled for, Greenmount

It's the whole big fish, small pond thing. When you put them in a different pond that's full of big fish, they start to think they're sharks. They think it's a way of maintaining their 'position in life'.

I don't care who you are or where you're from, if you're the kind of person who snaps their fingers at restaurant waiters, you're pond scum.

There are like, about 50 posts here that are uncalled for. The OP made me laugh on this dreary foggy morning, but the pages and posts that ensued reminded me the type of response one has to anticipate on the EF. Therefore some of us tread very carefully.

The first year in Switzerland as a foreigner is tough, especially when you don't know anyone here. I guess many people have forgotten this. Maybe it's just easier to tell someone that they are ugly online than in person.
It takes courage to stand up for yourself here, took me 10 years to muster that courage.

This. Why do you people even bother, and for 20 pages no less? We already know from the last time around that he's nothing but an ignorant, frustrated, bitter, foul-mouthed, rude little troll.

I think the first year in a foreign place is tough regardless of where one is from or where one has gone. I found the first autumn here particularly difficult - this in spite of having deliberately timed my arrival to be early spring. But this combination of darker days, cool wet weather, and not being at home for Christmas, Thanksgiving looming on the horizon isn't specific to being a foreigner in Switzerland.

I think a lot of people tend to underestimate just how big a change emigration represents, so when they bump into a hard edge of reality they tend to take issue with the hard edge, rather than the fact that when you choose to do something challenging there will be hurdles to be overcome, got by, or just recognised and accepted. Some of the detail of emigrating to Switzerland may be more (or even less) difficult than some other place, I don't know I've only emigrated to here.

Some of the complaints about Switzerland are founded, justified, reasonable, plausible.... some of them are akin to someone in a sports competition complaining because the other team has a good defense, or more like expecting the other team to follow a different rulebook when playing a similar, but different, game.

10 years to stand up for yourself? Wow, I wish I had that kind of patience! I don't mean that sarcastically in the least. A great many people I know who have come here and felt that they didn't, or couldn't, stand up for themselves spent that time fashioning and sharpening an axe. The ones who ended up staying, and being happy, ultimately realised that they have a perfectly fashioned tool for cutting down a forest which doesn't really exist. The others who stayed? Well, having invested so much effort in the perfect axe, they just posit the forest they require, set out chopping every day, and come home tired, but they still take the time to sharpen the axe because the wood is so incredibly hard.

Everyone lives in a kind of self fulfilling fallacy. Being aware of that makes for a richer storyline.

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If everyone you know agrees with you consistently, they are either not listening, or not capable of critical thought.